ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: 90Stomper on September 13, 2004, 04:52:40 AM
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ok i am gettng the driver cv shaft to swap into the pass side in 2 weeks. do i need the inner and outer shafts? i looked under there and seems like i would, but i have never had the front dif area apart much other than doing hubs, breaks and lift. the yard called and they have my outer shaft and want to know about the inner by tomorrow >:( sorry for short notice, any help would be great. ;) thanks all.
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Im not sure but I think you need the inner too. i think it has to be cut and resplined to make it work. Your project gets me thinking though I have been wondering for a while about moving the diff over to the drivers side a bit and using the longer shaft on the passenger side to gain myself some length in both sides. Has anyone done this?
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Im not sure but I think you need the inner too.  i think it has to be cut and resplined to make it work.  Your project gets me thinking though I have been wondering for a while about moving the diff over to the drivers side a bit and using the longer shaft on the passenger side to gain myself some length in both sides.  Has anyone done this?
Yeah, Mikey has... He's probably got a few photos too. :)
-Eric
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Im interested in knowing how he delt with the drivers side mount. I cant decide if I should notch the frame or remake the mount.
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This is what Calmini basically has done with it's Anvil. The differential is located outboard off center enough that the front ds is not parallel with the centerline of the vehicle.
BEWARE: you can not swap a driver's side axle with the 2 cv's directly over to the passenger side. They are not compatible.
Meaning the driver's side has a flange on an intermediate shaft which comes out of the diff along the housing. It's secured to the housing via flange, seal and bearing. The passenger side goes directly into the diff housing, but is secured via a snap ring on the end of the shaft in the housing.
What I believe Mike has done in customizing his front axle was to use a Ford 8" (not a 9") rear axle housing, cut short enough to use axle flanges on the ends, custom mounted into the frame, customizing the ends of the shafts to mate to flange style cv's. These cv's are not Suzuki's so cutting and welding is required.
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My plan is to put in just the shaft not the CVs. Ill reuse the existing CVs on the passenger side. The shaft itself seems to be longer but I havn't measured it yet.
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BEWARE: you can not swap a driver's side axle with the 2 cv's directly over to the passenger side. They are not compatible.
Meaning the driver's side has a flange on an intermediate shaft which comes out of the diff along the housing. It's secured to the housing via flange, seal and bearing. The passenger side goes directly into the diff housing, but is secured via a snap ring on the end of the shaft in the housing.
This is what we've done so that two flanged cv shafts could be used thus only one spare was required. Eventhough we don't have an article directly referring to that, there is a couple of articles that beat around the bush a bit. There are some pictures that definitely show what (I think) we're talking about... :)
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_090103/feature_sidekickdrivetrainimprovements.htm
and
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_120102/feature_hagan_frontendmod.htm
HTH, -Eric
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On the stock set up there is no 'shaft' in the diff on the passenger (right) side. The shaft is part of the CV itself. The cup that you can see (that does not have the 3 bolt flange) has a long shaft as part of the CV that slides all the way into the carrier. To be able to use a inner shaft you will need to do something similiar to Calmini's set up with a custom stub shaft with bearings, seal etc. You can see jow they did it in the following link.
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_110103/feature_zigsbeef.htm
HTH,
Zig
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(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/anvil3.jpg)
Im saying just swap the circled part and reuse the CV ends that are there. Then you don't need a stub shaft.
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Ill post on this subject in a couple hours... I gotta run some arrands. Ive got a lot of info on this.
Mike
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BEWARE: you can not swap a driver's side axle with the 2 cv's directly over to the passenger side. They are not compatible.
If you swap the inner cup they are. :-/ They are very close in length. I dont remember which side it is but one of them is something like 1/3 inch longer. Not enough to be a problem. If your running short on shafts you could swap the inner cup if need be.
Mike
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What I believe Mike has done in customizing his front axle was to use a Ford 8" (not a 9") rear axle housing, cut short enough to use axle flanges on the ends, custom mounted into the frame, customizing the ends of the shafts to mate to flange style cv's. These cv's are not Suzuki's so cutting and welding is required.
Actually what Ive got is better than that.;) Im using a prototype Calmini anvil. The long side was elliminated and it is center mounted. Basicly it is just a suzuki 3rd member with 2 axle stubs hangin out. Then I built 2 passenger side Maxima shafts. (longer and larger)
To center mount the diff I had to raise the motor 3 inches and also cut and drop the center cross member 1 1/2 inches.... along with the front. Then I flipped the tierod ends to the top of the knuckle to correct steering geometery. ( I was aware that I would flip the tie rods thats why I chose 1 1/2 inches.) This causes the fulcrum of the lower control arm to change requireing a 1 3/4 inch coil spring spacer to retain center clearance. This required a strut drop of 1 1/2 inches. (see a chain reaction ::) ) The final product was a 5 inch lift in the front.... so I leveled the back with a 1 1/2 inch spacer.... but that was too much angle on the rear arms and the rig would weird things on steep hill climbs. So I cut the frame where the upper v bar attaches and dropped it 2 inches. This made the upper link level on my rig. It still didnt feel right so cut the lower control arm bracket off the frame and moved it forward to the next hole in the frame. Then I made a pair of longer control arms out of 3/16 thick 1 3/4 dom tubing and had it bent with a high clearance like the Calimini 3 inch.
???I think I got sidetracked :-[ I need to go back and re read this topic.
Mike
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ok i am gettng the driver cv shaft to swap into the pass side in 2 weeks. do i need the inner and outer shafts? i looked under there and seems like i would, but i have never had the front dif area apart much other than doing hubs, breaks and lift. the yard called and they have my outer shaft and want to know about the inner by tomorrow >:( sorry for short notice, any help would be great. ;) thanks all.
You will need the inner as a donor if your planning on doing what it says in this artical.
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_120102/feature_hagan_frontendmod.htm
BTW just a heads up, it wont fit without widening the lower arms as mentioned in that artical also.
Mike
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Actually what Ive got is better than that.;) Im using a prototype Calmini anvil. The long side was elliminated and it is center mounted. Basicly Then I built 2 passenger side Maxima shafts. (longer and larger)
To center mount the diff I had to raise the motor 3 inches and also cut and drop the center cross member 1 1/2 inches.... along with the front.
I thought you were Ford 9" up front, was that an old post or is this a different Tracker?
Can you give any details on the 2- stubs ??? custom cut and splined units I assume ..."it is just a suzuki 3rd member with 2 axle stubs hangin out."
3" motor lift + 1.5" drop = 4.5" Hey I've just about got that kind of clearance now ;) ...
I fabbed my upper rear 3rd link drop bracket today (a bandaid to get theCherokee coils in until I figure out the rear / I should get the similar funky Up-hill experience). My +2" Explorer front coils should be in tomorrow. WooHoo!
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My plan is to put in just the shaft not the CVs.  Ill reuse the existing CVs on the passenger side.  The shaft itself seems to be longer but I havn't measured it yet.
Thanks for the clearing up. When I read such things I include the entire axle from stub to stub/flange. I keep forgetting that shaft actually floats in the cv cup.
To add, I guess my memory is not as good as I had thought. Referencing Mike's front axle setup, I thought I recalled him working with a 8" Ford rear axle, cutting the tubes, reinstalling the cut down and resplined axles, reconfiguring the axle ends to work with the flanges of the cv cups so that he would only have to carry a sinlge type spare.
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([url]http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/anvil3.jpg[/url])
Im saying just swap the circled part and reuse the CV ends that are there. Then you don't need a stub shaft.
OK, Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were going for the 3 bolt on the other side :P
Zig
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If you swap the inner cup they are. :-/ They are very close in length. I dont remember which side it is but one of them is something like 1/3 inch longer. Not enough to be a problem. If your running short on shafts you could swap the inner cup if need be.
Mike
I was thinking there might be more of a lenth difference. I was hoping for like half an inch that way if I moved the third member a quarter inch to the drivers side Id gain about a quarter inch extra lenth on each side. Im not sure that a sixth of an inch would be enough to make a difference. Does someone have a set of shafts appart? If so can you get me the actual measurments? Ive got my spare set but I don't want to tear them appart if I dont have to.
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I was thinking there might be more of a lenth difference.
i got a custom made spacer to deal with this. got the outer shaft today. yard is being a bit of a pain in the #$%. i do see now that i need the inner too. is it hard to pull the inner? do i need to open up the front dif?
BEWARE: you can not swap a driver's side axle with the 2 cv's directly over to the passenger side. They are not compatible.
??? i dont get it....
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The inner just pulls out. Its held in with a spring clip like the passenger side. I just used a screwdriver to pry it out a bit and then it slid out easy the rest of the way.
What kind of spacer do you have? Where does it go? I was just thinking that if I put the longer shaft on the passenger side and put a spacer on the drivers side in the flange between the CV shaft and the inner stub axle then I could gain the third of an inch on both sides without moving the third member.
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(http://www.eye-irritant.com/august2004/Diff plans.jpg)
Ok to clarfy...  I will replace the blue shaft with a new red one.  Then I will place the yellow spacer that is the same thickness as the difference in the shaft lenth.  The green CV's will all remain in there stock locations.
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nice drawing work TM 8) i bought this used tranny from a guy, we got talking, he says i should put a driver side axel assy. on the passanger side so if it breaks.... blah, blah, blah. we all know why. so he says 'here youll need this spacer, i had it make when i did mine.' so i says 'cool, thanks.' i mean it was free and sounded right. it looks like it goes just where you show it in your pic. but, i got the impression that it goes on the pass side when the new setup is put in. he said that before he did that the shaft would fall out....? did i misunderstand him? the red shaft in your pic is the stock driver right? your/I am not running with a spacer now, why later on that side if we are going to replace the pass side? or is that what you meant, that the 'yellow' spacer would go with the new 'red' shaft that is replaceing the 'blue'? *whew* :-/ if so i think that should work.
The inner just pulls out. Its held in with a spring clip like the passenger side.
we are talking about the part that goes into the diff? i will have to go look in my book....
oh, hey, the guy that gave me the spacer says it cost some $$ to get made. if you need exact dims let me know, easy to measure but my calipers are standard. :P
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I think we are working at two different goals but we have to go down the same road to get there. I have streched my 3 inch Calmini kit by putting my ball joints on the bottom of the A-arm and flipping the strut mounts. To try to keep the shafts from overextending and pulling out I rotated the third member a bit to bring it down a bit. I have not had one pull out yet but Im still worried. So my plan is to add a little lenth to each side. I'm not worried about having the bolt on CV flange on both sides I just want more lenth.
The red shaft is the stock drivers side.
The Spacer goes in on the drivers side to add length over there too.
The Red shaft is longer than the Blue shaft so by putting it on th passenger side it adds length.
I have an extra inner shaft from the diff so I can get my dimentions for my spacer from that. (If I don't just cut the end off from it and use that.)
I think that gets to all your questions. I'm going to take some pics tonight to try to explain it all better. I think it is going to be easier to do than to explain it.
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I thought you were Ford 9" up front, was that an old post or is this a different Tracker?
Can you give any details on the 2- stubs ??? custom cut and splined units I assume ..."it is just a suzuki 3rd member with 2 axle stubs hangin out!"
The ford nine inch your thinking of is in my freinds kick with 37s on it.
The two stubs are two passenger side Calimini Anvil axles. Calmini built the prototype Im running. If I could post pics I would. It works great. Just in case anybody was wondering how strong the Anvil axles are... dont worry. ::) I cant break them.
Mike
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To add, I guess my memory is not as good as I had thought. Referencing Mike's front axle setup, I thought I recalled him working with a 8" Ford rear axle, cutting the tubes, reinstalling the cut down and resplined axles, reconfiguring the axle ends to work with the flanges of the cv cups so that he would only have to carry a sinlge type spare.
I do still only have one spare. The front axles are identical from side to side.
Mike
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I'm going to take some pics tonight to try to explain it all better. I think it is going to be easier to do than to explain it.
pics are always GREAT! plus i am interested in seeing what you did to the dif too.
hmmm i thought the drivers side setup was shorter? LOL, i think i am making this more complex than it really is, i am still a little lost. my bad i am sure. after i see your pics i just tear the d#|removethispart|@N thing apart and take it from there. my one spacer should be enough though right? :-/ :)
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Sorry I went wheeling last night instead of taking pics. Oh well gotta have priorities right? Its gonna depend on how thick your spacer is and what the difference in the shaft lenth is. I hope its the drivers side that is longer otherwise none of this will work. I guess Ill have to take my spares appart and figure this all out. So much for clean fingernails.....
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see i thought that the D side was shorter and you needed the spacer when used on the P side....
Sorry I went wheeling last night instead of taking pics. Oh well gotta have priorities right?
priorities? isnt that a need? i am going to the river fri 8)
hey, i looked at my service manual and from what i see in the exploded view of the front, this idea of ours (and others) will NOT work. which means i just blew $35 on an extra D side shaft. what i dont get is i thought this was a pretty basic mod it ya had a little skill....? if you dont have a service manual i can send you the scaned pages this weekend. swap for the pic ;)