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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: trialspro on August 28, 2004, 09:08:25 PM

Title: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: trialspro on August 28, 2004, 09:08:25 PM
 hey again, i have a 1.3 carb'd samurai that just failed aircare
it burns maybe a liter of oil every month or two
i failed cause of carbon monoxide, but my hydrocarbons were high as well
NOx whatever that is, is extremely low

my o2 sensor is fine, oils changed, filters changed
this carb relys on sensors so much i dont know where to start, i dont think theres a screw to richen or lean it out, cause the numbers indicate im running rich
low NOx are from the cylinders not being hot enough i hear, normally cause its so rich

anyway, my cap and rotor appear almost new, wires are ok, and the plugs are new

any ideas? and possible ways to test them before i dump a bunch of money in

thanks a lot in advance
Andrew

Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: r0ckstarr79 on August 28, 2004, 11:08:53 PM
What state are you in?

Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: Maiden Hell on August 29, 2004, 01:34:14 AM
Maybe it's time for a new catalytic converter.
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: NY_SIDEKICKER on August 29, 2004, 03:03:49 AM
Name:  trialspro
Posts:  87
Position:  Enthusiast  
Date Registered:  Aug 19th, 2003, 12:48am

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Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: Agent Orange on August 29, 2004, 04:26:26 AM
well if your sammi is stock then it's a concern. but if you have a lift with bigger itres on, then you rig is working harder on the dyno with a 1.3 engine, and that could be what's causing it to have high readings. if so put stock tires on then go try again.
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: wildgoody on August 29, 2004, 05:16:58 AM
If it relys on the O2 sensor to correct
the carb then you might start there.

Find someone with an Ohm meter to
help you test it, or just replace it if it's
like more than 4-5 years old, then you
could try a retest, if it's a free retest like
lots of the smog shops here in California
then it's no big deal to test again.

If it fails again then you would have to
replace the Cat

On EFI cars the Cat is just there to do minor
exhaust cleanup, but on a carbed vehicle they
really get a workout, so if the Cat os more than
a few years old it will probably need a new one
also.

You were correct the Hydrocarbons are rich fuel,
the NOX are from lean and hot burning conditions,
and the CO are from a bad Cat which might revive
it's self if you can get it hot enough to relight it, that's
what a friend of mine said who does my smog checks.

I need a new Cat this year, too much heat abuse and
275,000 miles of running over 15 years has taken it's
toll and it don't cleanup the fumes like it used to

Good Luck
Wild
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: trialspro on August 29, 2004, 07:46:18 AM
well i tested my o2 sensor like the haynes manual said, hook a volt meter to it, warmed up, it should read between 0.1-0.9 volts, the higher the number, the richer its running, mine measured 0.89

so whether the cat works or not, i figure its being run to rich in the first place... i created a vacuum leak by pulling one hose, that seemed to help, but it doesnt fix the problem...
do you think i could pass that way? or any other ideas of what it could be?

Andrew
btw, each retest costs 24dollars cdn
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: Iron_Crow on August 29, 2004, 10:46:43 AM
Check your basics first.  I went through similar deal with much head scratching on my part.  New plugs, O2 sensor, new carb, etc.  Took emissions test several times.  And finally found low compression on #3 cylinder.  Hadn't thought to check it straight away because engine was only 45,000 miles on last rebuild.
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: zukiboy on August 29, 2004, 12:06:45 PM
If it has run in a rich condition for very long it will burn the cat out. I've seen a new one get burned out in as short as a couple of miles after being replaced if its running real rich.
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: wildgoody on August 29, 2004, 03:36:01 PM
Well in that case check the carb float
level, this can make a big difference.

Wild
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: r0ckstarr79 on August 29, 2004, 04:22:11 PM
Spend 12.00 on a rebuild kit, and rebuild the carb...
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: wildgoody on August 29, 2004, 04:40:39 PM
Ohh, I misread the first post, I though the
carb had been rebuilt, well while your in there,
check the float and the level  :D if a cheep
plastic float is in there, or the brass ones
have a hole in them, they can sink, and cause
a rich condition, sometimes a fire if fuel leaks
out onto the hot engine

Good Luck

Wild
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: trialspro on August 29, 2004, 05:38:46 PM
hmm, i once tried my luck at rebuilding a carb at school  :-/ no luck... but im a few years older now

how would u rate it? easy? hard?... if its tooo complicated i'd probably just pull a vacuum line and see if i coudl pass it like that

and are there good/bad kits? or are they about the same?

thanks, Andrew
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: INGERSOL on August 30, 2004, 06:47:19 AM
For God sake take the easy way out.  Go to your mechanic and ask him for the name of a mechanic who will pass the aircare certification thingy no matter what.  In toronto, there is an entire underground economy based on this provinces DriveClean program.  I couldn't certify my vehicle without spending at least a grand on repairs to the "pollution control devices", but an extra hundred bucks to Oman the Shady mechanic, and I'm set for at least two more years! ;D

Try it.  Black market is good!   ;)Black market is your friend!
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: trialspro on August 30, 2004, 07:45:06 AM
lol hahahah, ill look into that one i suppose
i like to fix problems rather than cover them up though :P
im also not a fan of spending a bunch of money though, so its a tossup

Andrew
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: shoyrtt on August 30, 2004, 11:55:45 AM
Quote
hey again, i have a 1.3 carb'd samurai that just failed aircare  




The term "aircare"  sounds so ....... nice :P Maybe the Canadian government just has a way of making the dreaded SMOG TEST a civic duty ;)
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: Mike71 on August 30, 2004, 12:02:39 PM
Quote
For God sake take the easy way out.  Go to your mechanic and ask him for the name of a mechanic who will pass the aircare certification thingy no matter what.  In toronto, there is an entire underground economy based on this provinces DriveClean program.  I couldn't certify my vehicle without spending at least a grand on repairs to the "pollution control devices", but an extra hundred bucks to Oman the Shady mechanic, and I'm set for at least two more years! ;D

Try it.  Black market is good!   ;)Black market is your friend!



unless he asks the wrong mechanic and the guy turns him in..then hes in a steep pile of sh%t

i paid some dude to pass the hooptie last time..but i dont know if id go ASKING lol
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: Agent Orange on August 30, 2004, 01:32:14 PM
Quote
For God sake take the easy way out.  Go to your mechanic and ask him for the name of a mechanic who will pass the aircare certification thingy no matter what.  In toronto, there is an entire underground economy based on this provinces DriveClean program.  I couldn't certify my vehicle without spending at least a grand on repairs to the "pollution control devices", but an extra hundred bucks to Oman the Shady mechanic, and I'm set for at least two more years! ;D

Try it.  Black market is good!   ;)Black market is your friend!



that don't work here in bc, as the test facilities are government run. but if you can prove you spent two hundred dollars or more trying to fix the problem you can get a conditional pass. so finding someone to write you up a fake bill for $200+ is the shady trick. luckily i passed last week so i'm good for two more years :)
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: mperry on August 30, 2004, 01:39:35 PM
Quote
it burns maybe a liter of oil every month or two


The oil burning could be part of the prob. How many miles per liter of oil? How many miles on the engine?

On the cheap, check your plugs are clean and gapped properly, check the PCV valve is working & the EGR isn't plugged. Check your compression. (Oil that doesn't leak is going past rings, being pulled thru a stuck PVC, or is getting past valve guides... usually.) If it's close to passing, using a heavier oil can sometimes sneak one thru. (Straight 30 or 40W... drained after inspection.)

...just a thought...
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: trialspro on August 30, 2004, 06:30:19 PM
the oil consumption is pretty minimal... more if i high rev tune it
compression is good, the 4th cylinder is at 135, the rest are 145-150
plugs are gapped fine

i retarded the timing by like 8 or 10 degreees today, so it burns pretty much all the gas it gets, but pings on hills, so ill take it in like that tomorrow, and re adjust it halfway to where it was if it does pass

Andrew
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: 87Sam87 on August 30, 2004, 08:26:20 PM
    I used to get my old Toyota Truck to pass by unplugging 2 or 3 vacuum lines and letting it lean out. My Sammy has bad rings and the heavier oil trick worked for me. I used Castrol 20W-50 and a pint of CD2.
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: INGERSOL on August 31, 2004, 09:20:23 AM
I tried to pass my 92 kick one time and it faile dmiserably.  Then we dropped the transmission into 2nd gear (auto) and ran it up and down the street a couple hundred times.  Getting the enigne nice and hot certainly helped.  Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: trialspro on September 04, 2004, 10:33:59 AM
ok, so the timing is normally at 10deg btdc
i adjusted it to 0deg for my second time through
guess what? it FAILED! not as bad though, everything improved

here are my original numbers
Driving test| Max Allowed|My Reading|Avg Reading
HC                           280                194             46
CO                          2.67                3.80            0.40
NOx                    3600               215             1072  

here are my new numbers
Driving test| Max Allowed|My Reading|Avg Reading
HC               280                166             46
CO             2.67                3.59            0.40
NOx            3600               190             1072  

im too lazy to type up the idle numbers, same story though, they passed both times, and improved the 2nd time

any new ideas? ??? i heard methyl hydrate might work

Andrew

Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: trialspro on September 05, 2004, 10:04:23 AM
anyone??? im mainly interested in this methyl hydrate idea, cause the sami runs fine already, and gets decent gas mileage with low oil consumption

thanks, Andrew
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: wildgoody on September 06, 2004, 05:45:36 AM
Run your gas tank low, add a gallon or 2
of methanol or some other alcohol for
automotive use, and test it, then fill the
tank with your favorite gasoline and wait
for next Air Care test,

Enjoy

Wild
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: mperry on September 09, 2004, 02:41:48 PM
Quote
Run your gas tank low, add a gallon or 2
of methanol or some other alcohol for
automotive use, and test it, then fill the
tank with your favorite gasoline and wait
for next Air Care test,  Wild


I haven't heard of that one before. Will that drop his CO output?
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: wildgoody on September 09, 2004, 03:05:58 PM
Alcohol is a much cleaner burning fuel,
as well as it takes more of it to burn
in an ideal mixture, so it effectively leans
the mixture, and produces less of everything

I'd run straight Ethanol or Methanol if I could
find a gas station that had these for Flexable/
alternative fuel vehicles.

Wild
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: mperry on September 09, 2004, 03:24:11 PM
Makes sense.

Will it run on straight alcohol? I know you'd have less power, but I wonder about getting the engine started. Hmm... maybe a dual fuel system? Interesting.

From the results he's getting, it does sound like his Cat isn't working. (If it was, his NOX might be higher.)
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: trialspro on September 12, 2004, 07:18:17 PM
woohooooo, alrighty
it passed ;)
i put 10bucks of premium gas, plus half a liter of methyl hydrate, mostof my numbers were cut in half
the NOx raised a little, but still below average
the aircare lady said she could smell it, but they dont care how you pass
i dont know if it was the timing, the methyl hydrate or both, but it seemed even more gutless than normal
oh ya, apparently that stuff dries out the seals in your carb if you run it on a regular basis, so be careful

Andrew :D
Title: Re: sami FAILED aircare:(
Post by: wildgoody on September 13, 2004, 04:10:02 AM
Quote
Makes sense.

Will it run on straight alcohol? I know you'd have less power, but I wonder about getting the engine started. Hmm... maybe a dual fuel system? Interesting.


You bring up a few points, you don't get less power
from running on alcohol, you get less MPG as it takes
more alcohol than gasoline to get a stoichiometric mixture,
there is a table on the MegaSquirt EFI Site that shows these
ratio mixtures

http://www.megasquirt.info/manual/mtune.htm

If Methanol gave less power, you would be hard
pressed to find drag racers using it, but that
is the fuel of choice in the faster classes, it
also allows compresion ratios of 16:1 which is
about double your average street engine CR

If we really wanted to get good milage we would
be running high CR engines and high RON fuels, but
I guess the high CR causes high NOX levels in the
exhaust too, I don't know if this is a factor with
alcohol as a motor fuel, but it is with gasoline.

Searching for a Metanol station
Wild