ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Memphis on June 07, 2005, 04:09:33 PM
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Hey all, I think I am going to go for a Samurai from my previous thread... now since I don't have all of the money yet to purchase the vehicle, if for some reason I end up with a stock one and not the one on the autotrader, what would be the best route to go about lifting one?
I took a look over a Calmini and these two kits caught my eye:
CALMINI 3" SUSPENSION SYSTEM - $499.95
CALMINI 3" BODY LIFT - $99.95
I live in Canada so that total will come out to $747.2 plus taxes and shipping. Would this be an ideal lift or would I be better of starting with a shackle reverse for only a total of 5" of lift over all?
Next question is tires, what is the largest I can run without regearing? Or is regearing fairly cheap? Fender trimming/bashing is not an issue and I have no problem cutting because I have all of the necessary tools to do so. Do you think a 31" tire would look too small for a 6" lift?
Sorry for the long post and I know that I should have used the search but everyone here is always willing to help post something useful, so any feed back is appreciated! I can't wait to buy one of these trucks!!!!
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take a look at a spoa from sky-manufacturing.
cheap and a good start as it fixes the steering. then you can add on. At least this is my plan for my pretty much stock sammy.
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Have you checked here already?
http://www.zukiworld.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=forsale;action=display;num=1118190093
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http://www.breezeindustries.com/ Heres a Canadian Site.. I know a fwe rigs running the complete package. Good stuff.. Tough.. and not to expensive.
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A second vote for Breeze.  I have many of their products and they are all quality items.  They are located near Vancouver and you can likely get everything from them for cheaper than from Calmini.  The folks at Breeze are great to deal with as well.  8)
Skip the shackle reversal and body lift and just go with the spring over.  For 31s you will want the shorter perches which provide 4.5 inches of lift.  You can get away with 31s with stock gearing but you will not use 5th gear much on the highway and you will slip your clutch and stall a bunch off road. ÂÂ
For regearing you can get tcase gears for as little as $400 US.  These will help in turning the 31s and they are relatively easy to install yourself.  You can also put in sidekick gears into the diffs.  The 4.62s from automatic kicks are perfect for 31s.  Search a bit and you will find out what is needed to swap them in.  You should expect to pay about $300-400 for the diff gears and then add several hundred for new bearings, seals and necessary parts.  If you can't do the gear set-up yourself plan on paying a mechanic to do it properly.  ÂÂ
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hot damn, this sport is EXPENSIVE!!!! So are you saying the engine won't be powerful enough to make it into 5th gear? Or in 4th I will reach my max highway speed because of the taller tire?
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When I added 31's to my otherwise stock drivetrained Tracker, I could only use 5th on the highway when it was flat or downhill. If the road went uphill at all, I have to drop to 4th at highway speeds to maintain my speed...
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hot damn, this sport is EXPENSIVE!!!!
That really depends on what you want to do. A standard Samurai or Track/Kick is amazingly competent. Its only when you decide its not enough that you end up on the slippery slope.
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A second vote for Breeze.  I have many of their products and they are all quality items.  They are located near Vancouver and you can likely get everything from them for cheaper than from Calmini.  ÂÂ
I'm just curious as to how you came to this conclusion.  For example, their Hi-steer kit is a single arm setup that is $375.00 whereas you can get the dual kit from CALMINI for $299.95.  Also, you simply can't compare weld-on perches to this http://www.puresuzuki.com/bolt-on_spoa.htm . ÂÂ
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hot damn, this sport is EXPENSIVE!!!!
You don't need an expensive kit to do a SPOA on a Samurai. Although they do make it easier, basic tools, light duty fab tools, a few beer and a little brain work can get it done in a weekend.
Where in Canada are you?
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Go with the Sky MFG SPOA kit. its the most complete Spoa kit for the $$$ and has wrap around spring pads. Only other thing I'd really recommend is a traction bar of some sort. I've put a Spidertrax "anti-wrap" kit in my SPOA Sammy and it almost feels like driving a normal truck again. Best suspension mod I ever made after the lift.
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I'm just curious as to how you came to this conclusion. For example, their Hi-steer kit is a single arm setup that is $375.00 whereas you can get the dual kit from CALMINI for $299.95. Also, you simply can't compare weld-on perches to this [url]http://www.puresuzuki.com/bolt-on_spoa.htm[/url] .
DaddyDave, the prices on Breeze website are in CAD. $375CAD is right now $298.769 USD, so technically it's cheaper ;). Allright allright, it's the same price...
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I'm just curious as to how you came to this conclusion.  For example, their Hi-steer kit is a single arm setup that is $375.00 whereas you can get the dual kit from CALMINI for $299.95. ÂÂ
Lets not turn this into a big who's a better vendor pissing match.  The fact of the matter is that for us in Canada to purchase items from the US it costs extra due to the exchange rate, shipping, brokerage fees and Canadian tax when it crosses the border.  I wish it was cheaper for us as there are lots of good products in the US that I would love to have but if I can find a comparable product locally I usually go that route as it is easier on my wallet. ÂÂ
Yes the Calmini steering looks like a good product, it will also be more expensive than the Breeze unit to get it in Canada.  But he did not ask about steering. ÂÂ
Also, you simply can't compare weld-on perches to this [url]http://www.puresuzuki.com/bolt-on_spoa.htm[/url] . ÂÂ
Looking at the parts necessary for just the spring over (not including steering correction and brake lines) you need shock relocation, spring pads, u-bolts and driveshaft spacers.  The kit you show from Calmini is $389.95 for just the bolt on perches with shock mounts (seems expensive to me) and then about $90 for the driveshaft spacers.  So call it $480 US.  Now by the time you get that to Canada it is well over $700 Canadian.  The Breeze kit which will give you perches, u-bolts, spacers and shock mounts is $223.57 plus tax so roughly $250 Canadian total.  The $450-500 difference will allow you to have a professional weld the perches on if you can't weld yourself and still have lots left over.  So I guess I can compare the two pretty easily. ÂÂ
I still think that the best perches that I have seen are Sky's and his kit price is very reasonable. ÂÂ
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You spent too much time worrying about conversion rates and forgot that the breeze setup is a single arm and the CALMINI is a dual arm. Canadians ::)
Not trying to turn this into anything out of control, but you can get trailer spring perches at any trailer supply store for even cheaper than the breeze kit. The idea I was trying to relate was that actual engineering and design went into one kit as opposed to the other. That's all.
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You don't need an expensive kit to do a SPOA on a Samurai. Although they do make it easier, basic tools, light duty fab tools, a few beer and a little brain work can get it done in a weekend.
Where in Canada are you?
London Ontario, what about you?
So would you guys say the reverse shackle and the BL would be a complete waste of money? Or does reversing the shackle make my steering and handling go to hell? I am not 100% knowledgable about all of these kits, I have been a lurker on this forum for a long time but I was mainly focusing on Sidekicks until I realised how much better a sammi is (mod wise)
What exactly is the benefit of a spring over axle vs. a reverse shackle?
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Ok... I took another look at the kit, and here is the grand total....
Basic Spring Over Kit $223.57
*Cross Over Steering System $375.00 complete (ouch)
*Drop Draglink Steering $127.25
Drop Link Shackles
5" - 10" Suzuki Samurai $ 185.00 / pair
Plus extended brake lines....
$828.943 not including brake lines, plus I still need someone to weld the shock mounts for me... Personally I'd like to be doing as little modification to the frame/axles if possible.
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So would you guys say the reverse shackle and the BL would be a complete waste of money? Or does reversing the shackle make my steering and handling go to hell? I am not 100% knowledgable about all of these kits, I have been a lurker on this forum for a long time but I was mainly focusing on Sidekicks until I realised how much better a sammi is (mod wise)
What exactly is the benefit of a spring over axle vs. a reverse shackle?
Dang! I wish I could put my finger exactly on this, but I know that, with a Spring Over (SPOA, SOA, etc.) you have less hanging below the axle to catch on the passing terrain and better control over your pinion angle -- which is an important detail to familiarize yourself with when doing a SPOA!
If you decide to point the front differential upwards in attempt to improve the pinion angle and promote u-joint life, you will thoroughly mess up the on road steering characteristics!
I am sold on the Breeze SPOA. It has worked perfectly for three years now on my truck. I bought mine with Doesch Tech shocks, rear shock mounts, driveline extenders and extended brakelines from North Coast Offroad http://www.northcoastoffroad.com/Samurai%20Main.htm
It is not sold as a complete kit mainly because you can get brake line extensions at the junk yard (off various hondas, etc.), you can buy shocks, buy or build you own rear shock mout and you can make your own choice on driveshaft spacers -- all in the interest of saving money by doing it yourself.
I would NOT rush out in a buying frenzy and get some trailer perches. They may be cheap but they are nowhere near as good as just about ANY SPOA vendor's perches.
I imagine that there are a bunch of links to vendors that sell SPOAs here on this site. One in particular has a decent SPOA that does not require welding. There are other vendors that may not be listed on this site (no site has everything as much as we wish it...but it is good to try and ZukiWorld is doing excellent job at covering everything!) that are worth looking at too. Do a Google search for "Suzuki Samurai" and see what pops up...
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You spent too much time worrying about conversion rates and forgot that the breeze setup is a single arm and the CALMINI is a dual arm.  Canadians  ::)
Not trying to turn this into anything out of control, but you can get trailer spring perches at any trailer supply store for even cheaper than the breeze kit.  The idea I was trying to relate was that actual engineering and design went into one kit as opposed to the other.  That's all.
You asked me how I came to the conclusion of how he can get the Breeze lift parts for less money. I showed you the math... hmm seems pretty simple to me. As for the "actual engineering" that went into the Calmini parts what can I say I am in awe of all that hardcore engineering. It seems to me I used to see Calmini adds saying how bad spring overs were. I guess their "actual engineering" fixed all the problems they used to have with spring overs so now they figure its a good way to lift a zuk ???.
For the steering parts I did not forget anything about the dual arm Calmini parts. Actually I said that it looks be a pretty good product. But he did not ask about crossover steering in the original post now did he.
Just for the record I like a lot of Calmini products and I was just trying to answer the questions. I'm not really all that brand loyal I'll buy whoever has a good product for a good price along with good service. In this case I feel that he can do better with Breeze.
As for the ::) Canadians bit.. yup I am 8).
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Enough with the small Breeze vs Calmini soap opera that is developing with DaddyDave and I and back to the topic at hand. ÂÂ
Since you seem to be on a tight budget get a basic spring over, get some brakelines or extensions from Napa (search for part numbers),  add some cheap shocks and a Z bar for steering.  Skip the drop link shackles.  Give a buddy a case of beer to do the welding, throw some 31s on it and get wheeling. ÂÂ
If you have a problem spending that much get out now before you get hooked and are spending on lockers, gears, winch..............
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haha, well like I said, I am trying to buy a truck that already has some of the lift components in it to save me some coin. I am not a cheap ass when it comes to things, (I have 3 grand in my ATV already) but I just want to know whats best and affordable, the spoa looks like the way to go and my uncle CAN weld so I guess I just have to buy him 2 24's ;).
Ok so for this kit I am looking at about $403.44 which isn't bad at all, with an SPOA how much actual lift does it give? Breeze doesn't say how much lift it gives on their site.
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Ok so for this kit I am looking at about $403.44 which isn't bad at all, with an SPOA how much actual lift does it give? Breeze doesn't say how much lift it gives on their site.
You should get around 4 - 4.5 inches of lift from a Breeze SPOA.
Since you seem to be on a tight budget get... a Z bar for steering...
I have seen FAR too many cheap Z-bars twisted to the point of uselessness at ZookiMelts to wish that kind of agony on anyone! Maybe they were homebuilt, maybe they weren't, but I'd drive with the stock draglink before I'd use a Z-bar.
Sure, it would be great to have an over-the-top (OTT) setup. Nearly ZERO bumpsteer on the highway would be cool! I went with a Breeze draglink (forgot to mention that) because I could not afford OTT. I drive mine on the interstate to and from work everyday with no problems. And, it works offroad, too!
(http://www.ackerdackerly.com/graphics/samuraipic.JPG)
It needs to get offroad more...
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Everyone seems to be a little touchy lately. The only point I was trying to make on the steering was that for the same price, you can get the dual set-up from CALMINI and improve the overall handling when compared to a single arm or Z-link setup. I have it on mine and I can drive with my 32" with no wobble or walking around at all. Nothing personal...
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The Q wasn't about steering ... he asked about lift.
Also, you simply can't compare weld-on perches to this [url]http://www.puresuzuki.com/bolt-on_spoa.htm[/url] .
I agree ... much better to have weld on perches.
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i agree also ,and ive always used trayler perches ,they are cheep ,and i have had no problems with them . im all for someone saveing $$$ if they can . and all for do it yourself mods . IMO
ive seen a lot of rigs that have home built soa's on them and you cant tell much difference between them and aftermarket kits ,some even look a lot better.
so if you think you can do it yourself ,go for it , save your money for gears and lockers .
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Cross over steering for a Sammy is easy and cheap to have done. No need for a z-link or expensive OTT setup, find a 300 or 400 series mercedes and grab the steering arm off of it.
It nearly bolts right onto the sammy caliper mount. Just oval out one of the holes a bit and POOF. Instant cross over steering.
Here is a pic of it installed on our Sidekick.
(http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/SASday6/DCP_5298.jpg)
Front view
(http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/SASday6/DCP_5297.jpg)
Take it someplace and have the hold re-tapered and you can get it even higher.
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Sorry to jump in so late, but I have been wondering about this for a long time.
I bought my Sammy pretty much already done with a lift kit and the steering bar etc.....
Its a 6" SPOA with stock springs etc. The guy who did it made all his own parts,- ie.... shackles, steering bar, etc.
My problem is that the handling on road is insanely bad, its definently driveable and i use it every day, but it wanders, slides to the right when I take the power off and brake, typical lifted sammy stuff i would guess.
The stock bushings and springs look pretty bad, and i think the shackles may be leaning, so im thinking about switching to something like the Calmini 5.5 SHackle reverse lift.
If my goal is better on-road driveability while keeping the offroading as fun as it is.......whats your advice?
thanks
Chris
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/815000-815999/815975_11_full.jpg)