ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: pershingd on December 02, 2008, 06:57:19 PM
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The manual transmission in my '01 Tracker has been progressively noisier here lately and I need some advice...
After 170,000 miles, I'm pretty sure that the bearings are dying on me - it still shifts pretty good (so far). My problem is that used 5 speeds are pretty scarce around here. I can find automatics, but not the manual. I can find a rebuild kit, but not many shops out here want to touch a "foreign" transmission.
So... here's my dilemma;
1. Has anyone used an online parts locater with any success? I hate buying large parts sight unseen and hesitate to risk that much money.
2. How hard is thee 5 speed to rebuild? I've done my share of DIY work on my vehicles, but I've never rebuilt a transmission before. If its do-able I'd just rebuild my transmission and go from there.
If anyone has an option I've overlooked, let me know. The Tracker is my daily ride and really don't want to drive the Ram 100 miles a day for an extended period of time.
David
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I know it's just a band-aid solution, but have you tried running Lucas Oil in your tranny? It seems to quiet it down a bit.
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Rear bearing on the countershaft seems to be the first to fail. Mine needed one at 80000 miles and showed some wear when i tore the tranny down at 95000. My tranny is also noisy but I know all bearings are new and it is due mostly to my removal of the rubber damper in the shifter. these trannies are pretty simple to tear down but do require a press to change the center bearings on the shafts. if you are fairly handy pulling the tranny out and tearing it down to have a look it is not very hard. i pulled my tranny, rebuilt it , changed a rear main seal, changed a clutch and had it up and running within 8 hours. The transfer case and tranny are not too heavy and they are easy enough to split. I checked on getting mine rebuilt and I was quoted a minimun of 1800 depending on what it needed. If I remember right most of my bearings came from cskauto.com since i could not locate a rebuild kit.
I guess first i should ask what gears are noisy? If all but fourth are it points to the countershaft. If all gears are noisy there are problems with the main shaft.
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Mine was noisy for 2 years until it finally "broke". I called a local scrap yard and withen 3 days they found me a used one with 4xxxx miles on it for $800. I did the work myself and the swap out was easy. I've used the same kind of parts locator for 2 tranny's now and both were good. When it first started making noise I went to a local shop to see if they could fix it. He said it would be at least $700 up to $2000 depending on what was making the noise. He said it may last 2 hours or 10 years. I took my chances and it went 2 more years. 8)
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Is your tranny leaking ? Ive seen 3 trannies including mine that leak at the center half and get low on oil and start to get noisey
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Try this for your transmission.
http://car-part.com/
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Great link! Thanks.
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Thanks you everyone for the info.
I've got noise in most gears - mostly whining. I'm hoping that I'm just low on lube, but the weather has been terrible here and I haven't had time to get in to a shop and get it checked. Hopefully I can get it in someplace Friday.
I haven't noticed a leak, but that doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot. :laugh: I'll let you know what I find out.
David
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Wow - can't believe I'm reading this post. I just went through the identical thing on my '01 5-speed. The problem was a bad center bearing on the counter shaft. I ended up ordering a rebuild kit from drivetrain.com (good people) and rebuilding it myself. I've never done anything like that and decided to take a chance and try it. I've put a little over 2k miles on it since then and it seems great so far.
I did not have a press. I bought a large gear puller from Sears and a bearing puller kit from Harbor Freight - cheap. Both worked great. To re-install everything I put one part in the freezer and one part in the toaster oven - it was a little tricky but worked out just fine. The toaster oven doesn't get hot enough to anneal the metal so you don't have to worry about that.
I took tons of pictures and a few measurements to make sure everything went back together correctly. I also found the source of the leak that was mentioned a few posts above - there a plug that falls out. I tapped it and put a brass plugs in for under $1. No more leak.
Cost depends on if you want to replace the synchro rings while you're in there (add $100) and what tools you already have (add $100 for pullers) but the "base" cost is about $450 with all the fluids, rebuild kit, clutch kit, sealant, etc. That number also assumes you want to do the clutch "while you're in there" - it literally adds 10 minutes and is very easy. If you're like me and kind of new to a project like this then plan on a day to remove the trans and separate the case, a day to do the rebuild, and a day to re-install. You don't need a transmission jack since the trans is so light - just a friend to help.
I'd be happy to help you through the rebuild or answer any questions. It's all very fresh in my mind. Post up or PM me if you want.
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Here's a picture of everything out on a table in the basement. New parts are next to the old ones they are replacing and everything is in the order and orientation that it came off in.
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I would love all the hints and tips you're willing to give. I've haven't done anything this complex in a very long time and a bit nervous as the Tracker is my commuter car. If I mess it up, I'm stuck driving the Ram |removethispart|@ 13 mpg 100 miles a day 4 days a week. :'( :(
David
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If you don't want to rebuild it go to lowrangeoffroad.com and see if they got one or samaurisalvage.com for a used one
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I would love all the hints and tips you're willing to give. I've haven't done anything this complex in a very long time and a bit nervous as the Tracker is my commuter car. If I mess it up, I'm stuck driving the Ram |removethispart||removethispart|@ 13 mpg 100 miles a day 4 days a week. :'( :(
David
Tip #1 is to make sure you have all the parts you think you will need before you start the project to minimize down time! My car was down for three weeks while I waited for parts to come in - UPS lost a package and then I found that the pilot bearing that was in my clutch kit was for the wrong car. I drove my '89 rover which also gets about 13mpg so I know how you feel. At least gas is cheaper now - it was about $4/gal for premium when I did this a few months back.
I found that rockauto.com had the best price for the clutch kit. I also decided to get a transfer case input seal and transmission mount from them since it would be a good idea to replace those cheap items. drivetrain.com (call them on the phone) was excellent for the rebuild kit. You'll also need various things at the autoparts store like gear oil and RTV. Sears had a big gear puller with a lifetime warranty and Harbor Freight had a bearing puller set that worked really well and was only $40 or so. There were a bunch of other little things I bought but I'd have to think about it for a while and check my receipts to get a complete list together for you.
I'd have too much to type here to explain everything so if you decide to attempt it PM me your email or something - might be easier to converse that way.
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Mine was noisy for 2 years until it finally "broke". I called a local scrap yard and withen 3 days they found me a used one with 4xxxx miles on it for $800. I did the work myself and the swap out was easy. I've used the same kind of parts locator for 2 tranny's now and both were good. When it first started making noise I went to a local shop to see if they could fix it. He said it would be at least $700 up to $2000 depending on what was making the noise. He said it may last 2 hours or 10 years. I took my chances and it went 2 more years. 8)
Yeah, most auto shops and the related are deceitful and want to charge more than a vehicle is worth to do what is usually a simple fix (like replacing the bearings). Or (from some shops I have seen) they will charge a customer $3000 (on a $1000 toyota camry with 250,000 miles on it) to replace random components because they don't actually know what is wrong with it.
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There were a bunch of other little things I bought but I'd have to think about it for a while and check my receipts to get a complete list together for you.
Feel paste it into a long post when you get it together.
I'd have too much to type here to explain everything so if you decide to attempt it PM me your email or something - might be easier to converse that way.
Same with that. That sort of info is pure posting gold.
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My primary concern is in the area of clearances. I believe I can handle the teardown & reassembly, but I haven't found much information about the internal clearances. I'd hate to just put bearings in only to have it grind itself apart the first time I used it.
David
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There were a bunch of other little things I bought but I'd have to think about it for a while and check my receipts to get a complete list together for you.
Feel paste it into a long post when you get it together.
I'd have too much to type here to explain everything so if you decide to attempt it PM me your email or something - might be easier to converse that way.
Same with that. That sort of info is pure posting gold.
I'll have to do a write up and include whatever pictures I have. I'll PDF it or something when I'm done and post it up. Give me some time though. If anyone needs info sooner rather than later let me know.
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My primary concern is in the area of clearances. I believe I can handle the teardown & reassembly, but I haven't found much information about the internal clearances. I'd hate to just put bearings in only to have it grind itself apart the first time I used it.
David
I did take some measurements. Everything slipped right back in place and required little adjustment - it was all too easy.
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;D ;D UPDATE! ;D ;D
I've just finished installing the bearings in the transmission, replacing the input shaft, and plugging the hole Frank84 mentioned. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get the bell housing & transfer case on, install the clutch, and stuff it back under the car. I'd love to have it back on the road Monday, but I'd be really surprised if it was. :( Working by yourself really stinks sometimes.
David
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Nice going David! I checked my PM's before the new posts here - I guess you found a plug. Just make sure you run it through all the gears and spin the shafts before re-installing it to make sure everything is turning right. When you put the shift extension housing back on, make sure that it lines up with the shift forks correctly - putting all three shift forks in the neutal setting makes it a little easier.
For installation this is what I found worked best for me:
Install clutch components
Bolt trans to engine
bolt t-case to trans
lower tail end of t-case for clearance (keep an eye under the hood)
install shift extension housing
raise t-case and install cross member
Take your time and you'll get it all in there. I've got a little over 3k miles on mine since the rebuild and it is still going great! Knock on wood....
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I wish I had read this earlier today... :-[ I did it the HARD way - everything bolted together and up at one time. Had a devil of a time getting it to line up and slip in. About the time I was ready to throw in the towel for the day - it went in.........;.. >:D
Still not on the road yet, but VERY close.
David
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I'm going to have to rebuild my trans soon and will have lots of questions. This site is great! Frank, love the pics and info. I'm building a press to use to remove trans bearings and am allowing 28" under press for trans shafts. Will this be enough? Thanks, Mike
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28" should be fine. The only tight spot you might run into is when you are pressing the counter-shaft bearing back on since most of the shaft is in the case.
David
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Did you guys that have rebuilt your trans use jackstands and a trans jack and crawl under or did you have a lift? Also did you have a helper?
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Mike -
I agree with what David said - 28" should be fine. I didn't even use a press though so if you did run into a situation that it doesn't work you can always just heat the one part in the oven and use a rubber mallet.
No lift for me and no trans jack. If you're by yourself then a trans jack would be needed but if you can get a friend to help for a few minutes it would be much easier. The t-case and trans are very light. I just put the front end on ramps and the back on jack stands, this gave me enough clearance and my tracker is on stock springs.
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I've got the ramps and the jack stands and will be following in your footsteps. I may start this weekend or sooner if posible. I think a front wheel bearing is going out on my wife's van so I will have to fix it first.
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I used jack stands & a transmission jack. I'm a pretty big guy and needed a bit more room under there than the ramps would have given me. If I had a couple of friends handy and a larger garage I probably could have done without the transmission jack.
Good luck with your transmission! Just take it easy and don''t get in a hurry and you'll be fine.
David
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Thanks for the link for drivetrain.com
Yeah put some elbow grease i bench pressed the trans up in my truck wedged my knee in there and got her done in -50 snow storm LOL.
Clean clean when workin on a tranny, and check your clearences. Example for tight bearings put the shaft in the freezer and the bearing in the oven. It will drop right on like butter ;)
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Got it up on stands and ramps, ready to start tommorow. When you removed the trans did you take out the trans/transfer together or transfer and then the trans? Also did you remove the exhaust?
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Sorry its taken so long to reply... :-[
I took the transmission/transfer out as a unit. Frank, I believe, separated the transfer before pulling the transmission. If I were to do it again, I'd probably separate them to lighten the load. As for the exhaust, I just left it alone - didn't have any clearance problems at all.
David