ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: matt4x4 on February 08, 2009, 06:18:21 PM
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I Just picked up a 2x4 Asuna sunrunner and was thinking of going Sammy front instead of using all the IFS out of my current truck(with frame rot). What exactly do I need to do a SAS into the front of this 2x4. Also is it better to run a Sammy t-case or swap in my kick tranny and t-case? Is a 2x4 manual tranny kick geared 5.12? Any comments/advice would be appreciated.
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Go Toyota axles. They're CHEAP now (see pairs selling for $200-300), are WAY stronger, and opens up a tun of diff gear & locker options (Aussie locker FTW).
If you go with Sammy front, it can be done - it's the same as any other SAS swap. You'll need a t-case, drive shaft, link setup (for coil) or spring perches (leaf), high-steer of some kind.... etc etc etc...
Can't answer your t-case question because you didn't say what tire size is your goal.
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I'm running 31" TSL LTBs thats why I 'm leaning toward the samurai diff. I'd like to go leaf spring, I've heard YJ leafs are good or is it best to stay with Sammy leafs?
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I went with toyota axles and yj springs on my tracker. Really easy swap. Everything bolted up nicely. I got all my parts from Steve at Boondox.
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If your plans are to stay 31", just keep the IFS. It's capable in the rocks. Hell, it's all Mike Hagen uses.
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Yes but I figured since I have to swap all the IFS in anyways and I have a Sammy diff lying around ::)
I would like to put a locker in the front and the stock sidekick housing is not strong enough. If I do Sammy axle with sammy leafs under the axle do I need to extend the frame in the front?
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i did a solid axle swap on my 91 using stock sami axle and springs. locked the front with lockright and running 5:12 gears. i set it up with spring under put was not big enough so i sprung it over. rann 33" for a few days but my boss wanted his tires back. the only thing i had to run was 38" tsl's. been running them for 8 months now and it is great. drive it every day and wheel the piss out of it about 6 times and haven't broke anything "YET". not saying the sami axle won't break; plans to swap dana 44's in; but if you plans are to stay around 33's i don't see what you would break. but keep in mind that everyone drives different and terrian plays a big part in what breaks and what holds up.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e27/toyzilla/rakkerrock.jpg)
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keep in mind that everyone drives different and terrian plays a big part in what breaks and what holds up.
I agree completely. That being said, I'm still surprised it is holding up to 38's with stock axles and a locker. :D
Don't forget you can get the chromoly axles from Trail Tough, they still have them on sale. That should allow you to run 33" tires without any problems.
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I did the same thing with Toyota Axel. Started spring under, just swapped to spring over, much better. whatever way you go, you wont regret it.
Spring over, you will need to run bigger than 31's otherwise they look way to small
in the pic just the rear is spring over and the front is spring over. 31" tires with stock YJ springs
(http://www.boondox.net/ZukSAS_overunder.jpg)
this is with the boondox bolt on kit
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I meant the front is still spring under in that pic.
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not trying to hi-jack but would did the kit cost you? was looking at this a few years ago but wasn't available yet. just wondering, have a few guys that want me to do my sas on thier track/kicks.
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plans to swap dana 44's in; but if you plans are to stay around 33's i don't see what you would break.
Trail Tough's axles will survive just fine with 33" tires, and it'd be cheaper than going Dana 44.
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ok so if I use a samurai axle and stock sammy leafs under the axle, do I need to extend the frame in the front to mount the leafs? Also what do I need to run in the back to keep the truck level?
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i only had to add about 11" to the front of mine but i also moved my axle forward about 5". if i remeber right, when it was sprung under the back end was either level or was sagging by a inch or so, but i was also running 2" spring spacers to start with. don't forget about your steering, you will have to do some type of cross over. the track/kick brake lines bolt right up to the sami calibers but use the track/kick banjo bolt the holds the line on. for some reason(very,very little) they are different and the sami bolt will not let the fluid through.
i saw break out the sawzall,welder and grinder and get to work. :P good luck and keep us all posted.
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If you use yj spring you wont have to extend the frame in the front.
Check with Steve at Boondoxmotorsports.com
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Is that with YJ front or rear leaf springs? Also with YJ leaf springs is it spring under or spring over, I don't want to be too high. Im only running 31s this year and going to 33s next year.
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I do NOT recommend tossing away your coils for leaf springs. Coils are SOOOOOO much better. Still not sure why anyone would SAS to go to 31" tires anyway ??? 33"+ makes sense, but you can stuff 31" tires under the IFS setup with about $200 worth of parts.
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I Have access to both pcs (ifs and sammy axle) , I wanted to got with the solid axle because I want to put a locker in the front. I know you can swap in a GV steel housing put then it's the cv joints you have to worry about. Am I on the wrong track?
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Well, with a locker you may be on the right track. But, there's some other options out there you might want to consider before diving into the SAS...
You should be okay with 31" tiers still & the Mike Hagen widening mod makes it EASY to swap CV's if you need to (cheap, light & easy to carry trail spare). You can also add a strap around the rear "out put" of the front diff which does a LOT to strengthen it (most the carrier failures are from diff movement under torque). There's also ways of using Toyota CV's if you're uber-worried about it. And, you can use the Samurai front axle (shortened axles) as your steel carrier. Or - a Toyota steel front: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318480 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318480)
I personally LOVE coils, and REALLY LOVE my IFS. But, I do a lot of fire roads, mud & dessert (read:high speed style) wheeling where IFS is king. Coils are king in every situation but towing heavy loads (so, they're always good in Suzukis). If nothing else, you may want to consider keeping coils, and going SAS. LOADS of people have done coil & link, so just copy their builds. You can also re-use (sleve & lengthen) a lot of the rear-suspension bits if you stay coil. I believe it's Ford Ranger coils rated around 200# that are the cheapest way to go if you want lift.... or you can just do the coil-spacer thing 'till you can afford new (longer-travel) coils.
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I used yj springs front and rear. Spring under axle 31" tires would be fine. Spring over 31" tires are to small. I get plenty of flex out of my leafs and the ride is great. I went with leafs over coils just because it was easier and cheaper. The whole coils vs leafspring thing could pretty much be a ongoing battle. I like them both.
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Leafs are "easier" to install in that they're easier to design. Forward / rearward hold is handled by the leafs, and they also somewhat take care of lateral motion (often not requiring panhard bars in light weight Suzukis). So, often times one can get away with no links at all.They're also more plentiful, so sourcing leafs is usually easier. Leafs can handle loads better, which is why they're almost always in the rear of trucks (limiting factor on weight for Suzukis is usually engine power, so this is a non-issue for us).
Coils ride better (WAY superior - especially on-road or at speed), and they don't stick out past the wheels, so approach / departure angles are much better (especially if you stretch out the wheel base a bit). Links will need to be engineered for forward / rearward and lateral motion without causing binding - meaning more thought needs to be put into the design.
Pick your poison...
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I'll be honest, I love my IFS !!! I do mostly mud , snow and rocks. My problem is that I really want to lock the front diff and from what I have read the aluminum housing will not take the stress. I'm not a master fabricator so I'm looking for the easiest bolt on way to lock the front. I will happily swap over all my IFS from my current kick into the sunrunner, but how do I lock it without worring everytime I go out and beat it? ???I thank you all for your continued replies.
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The best way is to create a couple metal straps that "wrap" around (more like sandwich) the rear part of the diff where the drive shaft comes in. I've seen how-to articles on this, but I can't find them for the life of me. What it does is stop a lot of the twisting (basically axle wrap) that goes on because of Suzuki's poor design. This GREATLY strengthens the front diff. The other thing is to swap out to a steel diff (Grand Vitara, custom build Samurai, or Toyota). I can say that a lot of people survive with 31" tires without a problem. Some people break. I'm sure it has to do with luck & driving style.
If it were me, I'd just do the wrap / sandwich thing, lock it, and wheel it. If the front broke, I'd replace it with a steel housing... otherwise I'd just keep wheeling it.
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otherwise I'd just keep wheeling it.
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See thats my problem, I've been so caught up in trying to modify that I missed the whole winter season. :-[ I think I might look into the GV front and just lock it up, then beat it till it breaks ;D
Jeremiah , whats your front end set up?
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Other than OME lift, and 29" Dakota M/T tires, I'm 100% stock. I should do something to strengthen the front diff, but I've been too lazy, and I think I'm okay with the smaller tires for a while. Don't hear about many people breaking the housing with 29"ers even with lockers.