ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: bentparts on February 17, 2009, 04:33:14 AM
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In the last year I've managed to blow out two struts on my Tracker, both times on the passenger side. Now I don't baby my rig, but I don't abuse it either. No jumping or such, but sometimes I do some pretty quick rally type driving, as well as crawling and general trailing. I know I've bottomed out a few times, and topped out a few times as well. What I'm curious about is why only the passenger side? Coincidence?
My suspension is quite modified in the front, Hagen widening, Calmini coils with 1" spacers, modified spring pads on the control arms, OME struts with strut mount flip. Drivers side and pass side are exactly the same. I have a couple in. of droop when lifted off the ground.
The Strut always breaks the same way: the piston or guide inside the strut body becomes loose or breaks, all the gas leaks out, and the shaft is left to wobble about causing all kind of susp and steering issues. This is getting expensive to say the least, aggravating as well.
Looking for ideas as to why it does this, and yeah I know, SAS would eliminate all these problems ;), not ready to go there yet. I am getting to the point of getting rid of this thing and getting a Toy though. Any ideas appreciated.
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OME struts
Underneath the yellow paint it says 'Made in Spain' - Spanish stuff isn't renowned for its durability. Are the bump stops still fitted? with only a strut mount flip the strut shouldn't ever bottom out.
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Bump stops still fitted. Made in Spain huh? So much for " built tough for the Australian Outback." They really mean, " built in Spain, for world use." I guess it's just a coincidence they both broke on the pass side.
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Have you called OME about this? It would be interesting to see what their take is on it...
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Have you tried suggesting that your passenger maybe lighten up on the bonbons and Moon Pies a little?
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I've seen his passenger and she's definitely not the problem!!!
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Thanks LilRed, Yeah Rita's a lightweight. Funny Drone, you need to meet my wife. I think I figured out the problem. The strut is actually TOPPING out over some bumps, the kind where the wheel drops into a hole or depression. The problem only occurs when I'm really hauling butt through the forest trails, and it's only happened when I was alone in the rig. If I go that fast with Rita in it It makes too much noise ( her yelling! :) ) I think my 220+ lbs is just enough to keep weight on the drivers side from letting that side extend too fast? Just a theory. I did talk to a rep at ARB, and he pretty much said the OME strut will break the inner piston if topped out hard. So, while I'm waiting on my replacement struts, I need to figure out a limiting strap setup for the front, and good mounting points for it. There's tons of straps available relatively cheap, but mounting them is gonna take some thinking. Any Ideas? I know they should be mounted verticly as close to the center line of the strut as possible, but with the coils and knuckle it's going to be a comprimise.
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I'm looking for a mounting point for the upper point of the strap, and I'm wondering if the strut tower shell would be strong enough if I welded a bracket to it . The top bolt of the strut would be the lower mounting point.
Hey Drone, sorry for the mixup, I meant BEERCHECK! :) :P
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I was going to say... Don't want to be getting a bad rep for no reason... :P
What about running a limiting strap along side the strut itself? Just put an ear on one of the lower mounts and one coming off of the top mount? It would also keep it out of the way from getting tangled up in the spring.
One would think that the struts having bi-directional valving would be enough to stop that from being an issue though...
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Yeah Drone , I just measured everything. Check this out: The OME strut has 7.65 " of extension at full out. I measured the drivers side while still mounted, and sure enough, it measures 7.5" at rest. I know I've probably got a bit too much lift in there, and the topping out is probably caused by too much extention, too fast. I've already done a strut mount flip, and I don't want to extend them anymore without a limiting strap. My CV angles are pretty good, so I don't want it drooping anymore. I'm going to check into some strut mount extensions too, then limit them with the strap. I'll use the upper mounting bolt on the strut, and reinforce the front edge of the strut tower and mount the upper there. The strap will be parrellel with the strut that way. Where would you mount an ear on top? I couldn't see a way to tie into the upper mount.
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I would just take a thin piece of meta, unbolt the strut, and put it in between the strut and the body. You could throw a washer on the other 2 strut mount bolts to even it out. If you want to get real fancy you could actually make a ring out of 1/8" or something similar that fit over all 3 nodes and had a place to attach your strap hanging out to the side. Or even build it into your strut mount extension.
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Hmmmmm, now ya got me thinking, and that's dangerous!
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I might be highjacking the thread with this, but I also had the same thing happen w/ my pass. side OME strut on my 99 twice within about the same time frame. I think the last time was due to a very washboarded section of road in Death Valley that threw the Tracker all over. Against my better off-roading judgement, I'll be re-attaching my front sway bay to limit the suspension travel somewhat because, like you said those OME's aren't cheap to replace. Fortunately, this time I had a spare. Next time, however, I'm going to buy some of the strut spacers Jeff started making for the Gen II's, and just throw on some cheap Monroe's from AutoZone w/ a lifetime warranty. In the long run AutoZone will probably end up losing money on that deal.
All of that aside, does anyone know of a longer strut with an application for another vehicle that will bolt up to Tracker/Sidekick/Vitaras. I think the rear Crown Vic shock swap is pretty common knowledge to anyone who's spent five minutes researching suspension on this board. I was just wondering if there's a similar cheap cheat for the front that I hadn't read about in my last few years on here. Probably not, since I've never seen anything; just curious.
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I'll be keeping an eye on this thread 'cause I've dune-ran my tracker before... but not blown a strut yet. I <3 washboards, so I want to make sure I keep 'em alive.
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So far I've mounted a set of Jeff's strut spacers, and returned the upper mount to it's original position. Jeff's spacers are well made btw, the same quality as his coil spacers. The Tracker is still up on jacks at this point, so I'm sot sure about the stroke travel until I get it on the ground, coils compressed a bit, and get the alignment straightened out. I can't really get a handle on the limit strap until I see where the ride height is on the strut. Stay tuned.
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Well I got the struts and Jeff's strut spacers in, and did a camber alignment. I got a cool little camber guage from JC Whitney that makes this job a whole lot easier. But enough about that. Now that I have the strut mount spacer in, the shaft of the strut rides at about 5 3/4 inches out, leaving about 1.5" in the strut body at ride height. ( NOTE: the new struts were .25 " shorter!? or aprox 7.25" of exposed shaft, where my original ones measured a bit over 7.5" of exposed shaft. WTF is that about?) IT's an improvement, but to me, 1.5" of shaft in the strut body doesn't sound like enough. I'd be a lot more comfortable with 2.5-3", and that would mean adding another 1" of spacer. Or I could just flip the strut mount again and get another inch. Most of what I've learned about suspensions came from the motorcycle world, so I may be totally off with this, but I think for the best ride quality, and best traction, the wheel needs to be able to move down in it's travel at least 25/30 % of it's total travel. Meaning the strut should be about a third of the way in compression at ride height. Someone please correct or educate me if I'm incorrect. Still have to work on that.
I haven't been able to figure out the lower mounting points for a limit strap either. I was going to make a tab to mount the lower part of the strap off the upper strut mount bolt ( the camber adjustment bolt) but it puts the strap too close the the inside of the tire and it would rub. The top mounting point will be much easier if I can figure out the bottom. Back to the drawing board. Blacktrack, I'm almost positive there is no alternitive to the OME strut if you want a longer strut. Calmini was supposed to be coming out with a longer strut, there was talk and a rumor of the thing actually being seen at some event, but alas, it evaporated like most rumors.
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What about a loop that connects to both sides of the lower strut bolt and puts the strap to the inside if the strut, keeping it away from the tire?
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Ah, a new day with a fresh perspective. I'm going to go back out today Drone and take another look at things to see what I can see, your loop suggestion is definitely worth looking into. Also, did do a test drive and ride was much smoother. I guess new struts will do that for you. When I finally got around to replacing the drivers side strut ( original with about 30k on it) It also had some damping issues, and felt like there were air pockets in it. The stoke was uneven, soft, then hard, then almost nonexixtent resistence at the top. I guess these things are NOT industructable!
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This Sucks. I finally finished building my limit strap set up for the front struts, and it came out pretty nice. Problem is photos won't load! I ended up welding a tab to the bottom back of the strut. The OME strut, as well as stock struts have a formed wrap around mounting bracket that is welded to the strut body. This mounts to the knuckle. This is where I welded the mounting tab for the lower end of the strap. For the top mount, I took what Drone said, about some kind of "ring" mounted to the upper strut mount bolts, and remembered someone mentioning a exhaust flange is a similar size to the strut mount. Sure enough, a Chevy header flange fits the strut mount perfectly! So, I got a few of them ( JCWhitney again) and welded a tab perpindicular to the face. This mounts under the upper strut mount and the limit strap connects the two. Whats cool is I can adjust the amount of droop in the front end by adding 1 or 2 more exhaust flanges above the strap mount to lower it up to 3/4". Right now with no additional spacers, the strap begins to tighten up at about 5.75" of strut extension, or just beyond ride height. 7.5" is the max, topped out. Givin the amount of strap stretch, I should be just about right for a soft stop. Wife's gonna work on the photo thing today, hope I can get some up later.
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Sounds like a neat project, can't wait to see the pictures. :)
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DUH! After it was all together, and looking pretty good, I ran into another problem: spring bow, forgot to account for it. As the wheel turns left or right , so goes the strut. I still got rubbing on the coil as it turns so it's back to the drawing board. I'm seriously thinking it's time to buy a Toyota.
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I'm seriously thinking it's time to buy a Toyota.
For parts right!?!?! :o
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You would have to move the strap to the front of the strut to get it out of the way...
Or move the strap to another part of the body or other location. As long as it connects to the A-arm it should be ok.
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All of that aside, does anyone know of a longer strut with an application for another vehicle that will bolt up to Tracker/Sidekick/Vitaras. I think the rear Crown Vic shock swap is pretty common knowledge to anyone who's spent five minutes researching suspension on this board. I was just wondering if there's a similar cheap cheat for the front that I hadn't read about in my last few years on here. Probably not, since I've never seen anything; just curious.
I have read that Dodge/Hyundai colt struts work, but haven't ever seen them in action. They are longer.
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I have read that Dodge/Hyundai colt struts work, but haven't ever seen them in action. They are longer.
Dodge/Mitsubishi Colt?
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I bought a set of the Dodge Colt struts. They are about an inch longer that the stock struts but offer no extra travel over the stock struts. I decided to just return them.
Derek
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I'm seriously thinking it's time to buy a Toyota.
For parts right!?!?! :o
I dunno, beginning to get tired of chasing maintenence problems. Finally got the motor where I want it, now the suspension is going to give me fits. I'm thinkin a nice late model used Taco extended cab 4wd with all the creature comforts. Then leave it stock! You would have to move the strap to the front of the strut to get it out of the way...
Or move the strap to another part of the body or other location. As long as it connects to the A-arm it should be ok.
I'm going to look at mounting it to the a arm, then directly to the frame, maybe that'll work. Cant put it on the front of the strut, tire's in the way. That's the first place I tried. If I had narrower tires, maybe a 32x 9.5 it might fit in front of the strut.
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...and today I blew #3 at Tierra del Sol.
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That's a pain. Have you thought about switching to Billstien's? They might be able to hook you up with something for rallying.
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I can at least report on the difference the strut spacers make now. After a long nightime trailride, I experienced NO topping out at all, and the ride quality is vastly improved. Still working on placement of the straps, pretty sure I'm going directly from the frame to front of control arm.
...and today I blew #3 at Tierra del Sol.
If your still running stock length struts, sty adding more strut spacer to bring them down a bit, if not try OME's ( their longer ) with a Jeff's spacer.
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Those ARE OME's I've been blowing (w/ OME coils and a 1.5" spacer). Haven't put the strut spacer on yet. Trying to decide which way to go w/ the suspension. I've been kicking around the idea of just biting the bullet and buying a Calmini instead of this Frankenstein nickel and diming me. I'll keep everyone posted. If I go blue, there will be some nice OME coils listed for sale.
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I know Mike Hagen ran OME struts and limit straps way back when it was still basically a Calmini 3"suspension. Maybe check with him how he did it as he doesn't seem to baby his rigs too much ;)
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I blew a front passenger strut just over a month ago. Honestly, I thought I bottomed it out. I haven't had the time to check out the suspension cycle yet and see if that was possible. I even caught the huge bump on video, which is the one that I think did the strut in.
With a strut topping out, it just doesn't seem like there's enough weight in the wheel, tire, and control arm and that to actually screw up the struts so easily. It's really strange because the strut is the limiting down travel factor for these, so I can understand all of the frustration with installing a limiting strap.
(Bentparts, I've had the same exact Toyota idea myself)
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Hey Crikeymike, frustration leads to drastic measures! I'm not quite ready to give up on my Tracker just yet. The wife and I went out for a woods run last weekend and I must admit, the new struts with strut spacers did do their job. Ride quality is fine, and on the road it's amazingly smooth. Still trying to work out a limiting strap, just haven't had the time to mess with it. And I have a new "clunking" sound to deal with too. It never ends does it?
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It only ends when you switch to the next vehicle and inherit all of its problems.
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It only ends when you switch to the next vehicle and inherit all of its problems.
Aint that the truth! I think I found my mysterious " clunking," loose rear skid plate. Working on the limiters again, going to go from the top strut mount to the control arm directly. It means welding a tab on the a arm, but that's no biggie. I'll post photo's when fini.
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Easy fix. :)
Keep us updated on the strap, it will be interesting to see what you come up with.
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Good info
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OK, the latest scenerio is this: I finally found a way and place to mount the limiting straps safely and effectively. I'm now just waiting on my straps, quad wrap 19", to come ups, and that'll be that. Now that I've got my photo program working ( somewhat ) again, I should be able to post a photo when finished.
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Here's mine, I know, you saw this Mike, I just wanna show off. ;)
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm248/dustybadlands/front%20limit%20strap/buildups078.jpg)
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The only thing I'd be concerned about with that setup is the loops in the eye bolts spreading apart under load, or after hammering on them for a bit. I'd probably weld the ends shut just to be safe. The adjustable eye bolt length will probably come in handy if (and probably when) the strap stretches. The Calmini a arm lends itself well to mounting the lower portion of the strap, looks like all you had to do was drill a mounting hole for the bolt. The stock a arm is a box section, so drilling through it is possible, but not really a good idea. The metal is pretty thin, and would probably crush or wallow out eventually. I made a stepped weld on mount that will have provisions for several mounting points, to accommodate any stretching of the strap down the road. Still waiting on the straps. That's what I get for going internet cheap.
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yeah I thawt the same thing too, and maybe you can see the weld in this pic.
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm248/dustybadlands/front%20limit%20strap/buildups076.jpg)
I assumed it was the bump stop rubbing on the spring that was making that deep creeking sound ("croaking"), In fact it's the strut. maybe it's the inner seals extended into previosly unworn space. Better get my order into OME! Any preferred vendors?
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I assumed it was the bump stop rubbing on the spring that was making that deep creeking sound ("croaking"), In fact it's the strut. maybe it's the inner seals extended into previosly unworn space.
Oh crap, I have that same sound, I was also thinking it was the spring rubbing the bump stop. Guessing I'm also about to do some strut shopping.
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I shoulda know you wouldn't let a small thing like that slip past ya Dusty! Yeah, mine made that "creaking, groaning" sound just before they let go! I'd go with Trail Tough for the OME struts. They have them in stock, and ship quick. I'm STILL waiting on a refund , for over a month, from Rocky Road, for the OME struts I ordered, then found out they were out of stock, and would be for 6 to 8 weeks! They kept my $ though~! Don't reccomend them. OME's are pricey, but well worth it. It definitely finishes the lift off well.
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+1 for Trail Tough.
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I just had this problem, I blew my pass side OME strut about three months after I put it in.
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It's a conspiracy! Something about the passenger side of Trackicks I guess. Could they really be so light that the weight of a driver alone is enough to keep them from topping out? Or are they (OME) just getting crappier? Cue the twilight zone music ........
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Finally got my straps, and this job's Finished. Looks and works well. I'll have to wait till later to post a pic, the Kodak program is full of gremlins again. One thing, I was driving to a job site yesterday and was following a Trackick with just a driver in it. Sure enough, it had a bit of a lean to the drivers side. My guess is these things are just light enough, and the suspension just sensitive enough so the weight of the driver is enough to keep the strut from topping out on that side. This problem is amplified by any lifting of the suspension. Just a theory.