ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: freeriders98 on February 27, 2009, 10:51:01 AM
-
I found at autozone some 2" blocks that will sit on top the axle between the leafs. How are these lifts? No I do not have any money to go buy a $300 lift. I can get 2" of height with this set up for $60. So keeping it as cheap and simple as possible is this a good option?
-
Lift blocks are OK for on road use and for the rear axle only. If you are planning on doing any thing but road use and very mild off road use they will be ok for the rear axle.
HTH,
Zig
-
I found at autozone some 2" blocks that will sit on top the axle between the leafs. How are these lifts? No I do not have any money to go buy a $300 lift. I can get 2" of height with this set up for $60. So keeping it as cheap and simple as possible is this a good option?
If you have a stock Samurai, blocks don't work for your set up. You are spring under axle so if you put blocks on there you actually lower it. Bend down and take a look.
-Eric
-
Ahh so that is why it will only work on the back. So is my next best bet to do an add a leaf or shackles?
-
Also what is the reasoning behind only using the blocks for mild off road use? Is it just a strength issue?
-
So I found on ebay some used 6" shackles. 4 of them bid right now is at $41. So if I did this with all new bushing, would I get 3" of lift? And what other problems would I run into (drive shafts, steering, etc)? Or is it better to buy 8 2" shackles?
-
Also what is the reasoning behind only using the blocks for mild off road use? Is it just a strength issue?
From what I found (others may have different opinions) but with lift blocks in the back, you have such long u-bolts that when you start wheeling hard things can start twisting on you. Easy and cheap lift, yes. But not the best way to go.
-
So I found on ebay some used 6" shackles. 4 of them bid right now is at $41. So if I did this with all new bushing, would I get 3" of lift? And what other problems would I run into (drive shafts, steering, etc)? Or is it better to buy 8 2" shackles?
huh ? You should visit www.zuwharrie.com and search around for ideas. If you have a sammy and $300 that's enough to do SPOA.
6" shackles would look retarded as shit on the stock sammy. Why in the hell would you buy 8- 2" shackles?
-
Example:
Stock samurai.
(http://www.zuwharrie.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10490/misc_pic_160.jpg)
SPOA samurai.
(http://www.zuwharrie.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10490/misc_pic_170.jpg)
SPOA+ 2" shackles samurai with 32's
(http://www.zuwharrie.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10490/misc_pic_181.jpg)
-
Nice Before and After pics. Its crazy what a lift and tires can do. Nice rig
-
It's not my Rig, It's James on the Zuharrie board. I was just using it as an Example. Mine is the tiny one in my avatar.
-
I don't have $300 for a SPOA lift. Someone on here is said he would sell me the Calmini 2" Shackle reverse kit with calmini rear shocks, used but for $125. Is that a good deal/ set up. That is about the max budget I got, and then also a bushing kit from samuraiparts.com for $30.
-
Don't buy longer shackles! As said, they look horrible and offer minimal lift for their length. You don't need to buy a kit to do a spring over lift, allthough it does make it easy. Do a little more research before you jump into this and do something you will waste your money on.
-
So do you only want to use shackles with a suspension lift? And what exactly is a spring over lift. I tried to look up some of the kits but not really sure what I am looking for?
-
I don't have $300 for a SPOA lift. Someone on here is said he would sell me the Calmini 2" Shackle reverse kit with calmini rear shocks, used but for $125. Is that a good deal/ set up. That is about the max budget I got, and then also a bushing kit from samuraiparts.com for $30.
SR is a good way to lift. But - why are you lifting your Sami anyway? Are you experiencing tire rub? What size tires? Why not just cut the fenders back a little - it's basically free and doesn't lift your COG.
-
I want to lift it for the same reasons everyone does. I still have the stock tire size. but when I put new tires on I want to be able to get some god articulation without it rubbing.
-
Stock springs = stock articulation.
-
Be smart and save your money until you can do a spring over which is a 4" lift. All your other options dont sound that great plus will also lesson that great ride quality sami's have. When you pick a lift consider steering atleast a z-bar.
-
I think I am just going to hold off and run some tires. Could i run some like 30x9.5 on it and do a little trimming. Also what wheels will fit. Someone told me Ford's will and also jeep CJ have the same bolt pattern. Is there certain years for Ford's
-
Have to make sure the center of the wheels are big enough to clear the lock out hubs too.
-
Ohhh thank you, I hadn't thought of that. What size are the stock wheels. 15 but how wide. And how would they do with a set of 30's on them
-
Not sure how wide they are, but I've seen people use narrow 30's just fine. You can run wheel spacers if you want to widen the stance (more stability, softer ride in front, as there's more leverage on the coils). There's also the Hagen widening mod where you move the "anchor point" on the rear of the A-arm out 1". This centers the wheel in the wheel well better (less likely to rub), and widens things out a bit. Supposedly it's one of the better mods to do with bigger tires.
-
Not sure how wide they are, but I've seen people use narrow 30's just fine. You can run wheel spacers if you want to widen the stance (more stability, softer ride in front, as there's more leverage on the coils). There's also the Hagen widening mod where you move the "anchor point" on the rear of the A-arm out 1". This centers the wheel in the wheel well better (less likely to rub), and widens things out a bit. Supposedly it's one of the better mods to do with bigger tires.
That may work on a Track/Kick, but this guy's rig is a Sammi, I had a set of old white steelies 15X7, 3.5 back spacing with 30X9.50-15 with 2" shackles all around, they fit fine in the rear, but not the front, tires would rub the rear of the fender and front bumper mounts had to be cut off, tires would also rub the leaf springs. CJ wheels will work, YJ/XJ wheels will not, I have seen early 90's Ford F-150 wheels on Sammi's.
-
Oh yeah... heh - lost track of my threads... ignore the hagen widening mod bit, but you can still get wheel spacers on there for stability or to get the tires away from the springs / frame if they're rubbing there. The best thing to do is just buy the tires you want, and see where they rub - if at all. Then make your adjustments (lifts, spacers, fender trimming, etc) as needed. Every tire brand, and set of springs are a bit different (Some springs are fresh, some sag).
-
Sorry for more questions I am very new to most of this. Can a tire place put spacers on the stock wheel to make them stick out a bit.
-
Could someone throw up some pics of their Samurai without a lift but with bigger tires.
-
Sorry for more questions I am very new to most of this. Can a tire place put spacers on the stock wheel to make them stick out a bit.
You have to buy them - I doubt your local tire monkey stocks, or knows where to get Suzuki parts. You also have to call around to find out who will install them, and who won't. But, it's a matter of bolting on / off 10 nuts per tire. Would take you about 20 min to do at home.
-
Ok so if I find them, it is a fairly easy and straight forward item to put on. Do you know anywhere that sells them.
-
Most vendors should carry them. I'd start with Aftermarket4x4, or Low Range Off Road.
-
Awesome thanks for all your help
-
Is this for a spring over. Looking at the stage 1 basic lift.
http://members.cox.net/aftermarket4x4/off_sam.html
-
Between the lift, tires & whiees - expect to spend $2500+ on a properly done SPOA when it's all said and done: http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=24027.0 (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=24027.0)
-
I don't have $300 for a SPOA lift. Someone on here is said he would sell me the Calmini 2" Shackle reverse kit with calmini rear shocks, used but for $125. Is that a good deal/ set up. That is about the max budget I got, and then also a bushing kit from samuraiparts.com for $30.
I didn't say doing a SPOA would cost $300 i said $300 is enough for a SPOA. My advice to you is to READ READ READ, Then post. If you don't even know what SPOA mean's, There is no hope for you right now, Because anything we say will not make any sense to you.
DON'T BUY SHACKLES.
-
It's usually not a good idea to just toss in the biggest lift you can afford. Get some small tires (29/30"), a rear locker, and go wheeling. You'll be fine for all but the hardest of obstacles. While you're out you'll gain experience, watch others, and figure out what the right lift is for you.
-
Pretty much,
-
I wasn't planning on just throwing on the biggest lift I could. I am sorry I am new to all of this and causing a headache to some of you. And I am reading and learning, but maybe rather than giving me the short tech answer that makes sense to you take an extra minute and give me the dumbed down version and I can learn faster and better.
-
And Jeremiah thank you I think you have been the most helpful. Thanks for all your comments.
-
but maybe rather than giving me the short tech answer that makes sense to you take an extra minute and give me the dumbed down version and I can learn faster and better.
Some of us are Certified tech's, So there is not really a such thing as a short tech answer.
-
there is not really a such thing as a short tech answer.
Eh, yeah - this is pretty true. It takes a long time of reading, reading and more reading - understanding, then asking questions. Otherwise, you just tell us your budget, and build goals... then put a lot of faith in our answers ;D
-
I wasn't planning on just throwing on the biggest lift I could. I am sorry I am new to all of this and causing a headache to some of you. And I am reading and learning, but maybe rather than giving me the short tech answer that makes sense to you take an extra minute and give me the dumbed down version and I can learn faster and better.
A spring over isn't a very big lift, it's enough to fit a set of 31's with some minor trimming inside the front bumper. I think it's the perfect way to lift a budget Samurai, and if you have the right friends, or a bit of mechanical know-how it can be done in a weekend with little money, and possibly some adult beverages ;0
-
As Uncivilized said, a SPOA can be done in a weekend on the cheap. I have done a couple of zero cost SPOA lifts and have had to do 3 or 4 spring pad mounts on my SJ-410 from swapping axles around over the years.
I would recommend spending the extra money though and getting the Sky Manufacturing basic SPOA kit (http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/new/detaproduct.php?id=92) or at the very least pick up their self centering spring pads (http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/new/detaproduct.php?id=109). The spring pads are much easier to setup, just put them in place and weld them on and bolt everything back in place. But the basic kit comes with the extended brake lines, drive line spacer and half of the high steer kit.
-
So after taking advice and lookin at my budget (haha budget, don't you have to have money for one of these) Anyways I found a set of 225 70r 15 tires on KSL.com (online classifieds in Utah). i would like to go bigger but... no money. Here is the link to the classifieds.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=5734445&lpid=6&cat=243
I don't think I will have any problems rubbing, and should get some traction compared to the tires i got now.
205 70r 15. What do you think? I offered them $150
-
Meaty looking tread. :)
I would throw those on, save up for a Lockright in the back and possibly the front, and call it good.
Next step should be some rocker protection after at least a rear locker. If you wheel it a bit, those rockers will get smashed in right quick. Once you can slide over everything you should be good to go. I made mine from some good sized angle iron and just bolted it through the body. :D
-
Ok so they now say they only have 2 of the 225's. But have 4 31x10.5. But will a 1.5 tire mount on the stock rim? And will 31's rub?
-
1st you asking about lifting your truck, Now you want to buy some tires.... How old are you?
$250 for those tires are a rip off. I can find a set of 31's with decent tread for $150 in oregon.
Go buy some spring perches and lift your truck. I can do a SPOA on a samurai in 3 hours.
-
No reason to jump on someone who is exploring their options. I can't count how many revisions of lift/tire combos I went through each time I found a deal on tire or other hardware when designing my rig's build the first time.
The 31x10.5 will squeeze on a stock rim, but it will be sight and you will have rubbing. Generally for a 31" tire you need to go SPOA, I think that was mentioned further up the thread. But if you go with a 31" tire you are going to want to look at getting lower transfer case gears as well, or you will run out of power quickly.
What type of wheeling do you plan on doing with your Sammy? I think the question was asked earlier but we didn't really see an answer. If your looking to do exploring some solid tires and a locker as mentioned before are probably just what you need. :)
-
1st you asking about lifting your truck, Now you want to buy some tires.... How old are you?
$250 for those tires are a rip off. I can find a set of 31's with decent tread for $150 in oregon.
Go buy some spring perches and lift your truck. I can do a SPOA on a samurai in 3 hours.
Dude if you can't say anything helpful, keep your freaking mouth shut. I'm 25 by the way, a full time college student, with 2 kids and trying to be able to go have some fun with my family on the trail's. That's great your can do a SPOA in 3 hours, I probably can't. And I don't have access to a welder or the money to buy a kit. And in my area $250 is the best deal I have found on tires after a week of looking. So who really cares what I can get tires in Oregon for, I don't live in Oregon.
Drone I am looking to do some simple trail stuff, nothing hard core. I have decided I do not have money to do a proper lift set up at this time so am now just trying to get some all terrain tires on it as cheap as possible, so I can get some traction. The tires I have on now have very low miles, but are 100% street tire like something you would find on a Honda civic.
-
I'd spend the $$$ on a 1.6L motor long before I spent it on a SPOA. Probably cheaper these days, you won't have any carb related problems, go 80 MOH on the freeway EASY, and get close to 30 MPG!
You should be able to do a Calmini shackle reversal (didn't you say you could get it for under $150? That's a good deal.), do some fender trimming, and fit 31" tires just fine. I've had a vehicle with a "budget" SPOA, and HATED IT. I'll never do a SPOA again without having the $$$ to do it right the first time. That means:
* Full sized spare
* Swing away tire carrier (so full sized tire doesn't the tail gate off: ask me how I know :-[ )
* OTT steering
* T-case or diff gearing (to correct for larger tires: ESPECIALLY important if there's anything resembling an incline where you live & commute, or you like slow-crawling in low range)
* Subaru (or comparable) break upgrade
* Minimum of RUF & CJ rear (big lift + stock articulation = lame & rough ride)
* Minimum of locker in the rear (which should be your FIRST purchase after any tuneup / maintenance bits, and ALL fluds flushed)
* Power steering (I'll never wheel 31" aired down without P/S again)
If I were purchasing a Samurai again, I'd do Calimini's SR, 29" M/T (maybe 30"), spool or weld the rear, lockrite the front and call it done. For well under $1000 I'd have one hell of a capable rig both on and off road that will easily out-wheel 31" open diffs: again, ask me how I know. A little imbarrassing to have a little stock looking samurai out wheel my SPOA'd rig on 31". Lockers are under rated. SR improves ride quality, very low center of gravity = stability, 29" tires = no significant power & MPG loss... or big hit to the wallet from other SPOA related bits (you can get your power / MPG mostly back by buying diff or t-case gearing). SPOA is a slippery slope money pit IMHO. I know others here disagree with me... but there's my thoughts.
-
The tires I have on now have very low miles, but are 100% street tire like something you would find on a Honda civic.
Dude, I've wheeled in the Rubicon on street tires, and stock suspension & open diffs. It's all about taking your time, using low range, and picking good lines. Don't be in a rush to buy stuff. Just go off the beaten path & play. If you need low range, just shift into 4wd low range, and don't lock your front hubs. Wheel 'till you get stuck, lock up your hubs, and get yourself un-stuck. Keep doing this a while, and you'll be AMAZED at how well these little trucks do, and how much you improve your off-road skills.
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i246/Jeremiah_Junkins/Rubicon/PICT0003.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i246/Jeremiah_Junkins/Rubicon/PICT0016.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i246/Jeremiah_Junkins/Rubicon/PICT0023.jpg)
-
Thanks Jeremiah, Good to see a stock sammy out playing. I feel pretty comfortable as far as driving ability, I have a lot of time behind the wheel of an 88 Cherokee with a 3" Rancho lift. So I guess sometimes compared to that I feel like the Zuki is so little and doesn't stand a chance on the trail. So far I ave only been able to play in the mud and snow a little bit, I can't wait to get it on a trail and try it out. With the tires I got now mud was to say the least very slick. Thanks again for an educated simple none aggressive post.
-
Myself I'd have passed on those tires anyway. They look to me to be snow tires, not at or mt. That & all the armo-rall makes me think they were trying to hide something. Save a few bucks & go to wallyworld & get the cheap goodyear wrangler 235/75r15's they have. They're a decent, if not great, all around tire for like $65 each new & warranteed. & yeah I agree 100% with Jeremiah, lots of rigs can do amazing things dead stock, & just small mods can make a huge difference. Above all, have fun & be safe.
Fuzz
-
Yeah the more I look at those tires the more I am a little worried about them. I tried to find them on the web, and I am not sure what they are really made for. And the size is really weird, they say they are for 5.5" rim. Kinda weird.
-
I just swapped my spare (stock street) tires off my Sami & Kick so I could go play in the mud. My ride looks a little ghetto with 29" up front and 27" out back.... but the street tires are SOOOOO much more fun sliding around. My pep-boys M/T (made by Cooper) have SO much grip, it's really really hard for me to do power slides in them. Have been out with friends now a couple times (read: recovery team ::) ), and TRIED to get stuck with my M/T tires... couldn't do it :o Kinda like the time I TRIED to roll the samurai in mud, and couldn't do it. I spun like a top through the pit... was pretty dizzy when I came out the other end...
And remember - you can shift between hi-range 4wd & 2wd on-the-fly, so lock up those hubs. If you start to get stuck, just throw it into 4wd. Then back out for more power slides.
Anyway, for tire recommendations:
* Pep-boys when they're running a buy 3 get 1 free sale
* Swampers are good (though, not as nice on the street), and have superb side-wall protection
* The Oregon boys swear by this cheap tire, I think it's called buckmaster? Hopefully someone chimes in...
* Anything ripping off BFG's all terrain is nice if you're more interested in on-road performance. Just keep in mind they're limited in mud (I'm strongly considering switching back to A/T myself - I hardly play in the mud anymore).
-
Yeah even the street tires did pretty good in the mud, but I tried to climb just a tiny little hill, and it was no go. I don't think I need mud tires but just a good AT. I am a big fan of the BFG, nut not the price so I will have to get a good rip off tire. And I don't have to be stopped to go from hi to lo?
-
Sorry... I mis-typed there...
You must be stopped to do low / hi changes. But, not in hi-range. So, you can shift from 2wd & 4wd hi-range on-the-fly. I'll go and edit my post...
-
I found my tires!!!!! Am going to pick them up on fri.
Here is the link to them.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=5752470&lpid=&cat=243
I am planning on selling the toyota wheels and the tires I have now since they are nearly brand new. And hopefully will pretty much break even. Does anyone see any problems with these fitting on the stock rims?
-
I'd spend the $$$ on a 1.6L motor long before I spent it on a SPOA.
Jeremiah, you have had lots of excellent advice till this comment. Suspension and engine performance are two different things entirely. This guy is asking about suspension setups, so stay on topic.
-
I found my tires!!!!! Am going to pick them up on fri.
Those tires will get you through alot of stuff, BFG makes one of the best a/ts you can get. I say grab'm up!
Should fit on factory rims too.
-
How about rubbing? Anyone see any major problems running 235 75 on a stock Sammy? I am ok with minor trimming, but I would like to avoid cutting sheet metal.
-
You should be fine. At most you will probably have to trim your front bumper a bit, when we put some 235/75 MTR's on my brothers old Sammy I took a sawzall and trimmed 2 or 3 inches off of the bumper. That was all the trimming that was needed.
Of course, we ended up ripping the bumper off a few weeks later...
-
I am assuming that ripping off the bumper was not due to the tires. This summer I am hoping to make some bumpers and rock sliders. But we'll see.
-
I'd spend the $$$ on a 1.6L motor long before I spent it on a SPOA.
Jeremiah, you have had lots of excellent advice till this comment. Suspension and engine performance are two different things entirely. This guy is asking about suspension setups, so stay on topic.
When did we get topic nazzis? When I was a noob, I would ask a lot of questions. Often times people would say "don't spend money on X, take a look at Y". I didn't even necessairly know about Y, or know that spening $$$ on Y was better than spending money on X. Decisions about upgrades to a vehicle aren't made in a vacuum. People are on limited budgets, and it sounds like the OP is trying to decide where his money is best spent.... so even though the topic is specifically about suspension, I think I'm well within the general topic of helping a noob think about his options. If you disagree that a 1.6L is money better spent, and believe a SPOA is better $$$ spent - why not talk abou the merrits of SPOA vs 1.6L swap?
-
Jeremiah I think you are on topic. I am trying to figure out the best build options to get a capable wheeler. Like I would not have thought about a locker, but now may consider it before going with a big expensive lift.
-
I am assuming that ripping off the bumper was not due to the tires. This summer I am hoping to make some bumpers and rock sliders. But we'll see.
No, it had nothing to do with the tires. The stumps and the rocks got it. :D
We have some shots of a stock Sammy from a trip we made last summer still running street treads at http://picasaweb.google.com/CrawlersNW/WalkerValleyJune08 and video from it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7aPn-b9xS4 with just a locker in the back, the stump would have gone faster if he had realized he was in two high earlier. :D
We usually pull the front bumpers off and run the front turn signals in side the grill. Then cut the bumper tubes off for clearance.
-
1st you asking about lifting your truck, Now you want to buy some tires.... How old are you?
$250 for those tires are a rip off. I can find a set of 31's with decent tread for $150 in oregon.
Go buy some spring perches and lift your truck. I can do a SPOA on a samurai in 3 hours.
Dude if you can't say anything helpful, keep your freaking mouth shut.
I have been helpful, But it's very clear your not interested in taking anyone's advice. Maybe you should eat your own words and do some RESEARCH instead of looking like a Moron on the forums. ???
-
1st you asking about lifting your truck, Now you want to buy some tires.... How old are you?
$250 for those tires are a rip off. I can find a set of 31's with decent tread for $150 in oregon.
Go buy some spring perches and lift your truck. I can do a SPOA on a samurai in 3 hours.
Dude if you can't say anything helpful, keep your freaking mouth shut.
I have been helpful, But it's very clear your not interested in taking anyone's advice. Maybe you should eat your own words and do some RESEARCH instead of looking like a Moron on the forums. ???
Yes clearly this is helpful info for me. And I would love to take advice if I had the money right now to do a proper lift. But... since I don't I am taking advice to just go with a set of tires for now and enjoy my rig. And I don't know why I am not allowed to ask about lifting and then ask about tires also. And thanks for your help A$$ I am not sure how much more I will be on here cause of people who just want to belittle others instead of helping them.
-
Seems like things are getting a little unproductive here. Spring fever may be hitting, I don't know. If there is question as to why this thread has been locked, please refer to the Welcome message at the top of this forum section.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=1722.0
-Eric