ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: rago on May 13, 2009, 07:49:02 PM
-
First off, I'd like to say hi to everyone. Y'all can call me Rago. I plan to stick around & learn some Suzuki stuff & possibly spread my knowledge of other vehicles to anyone that needs help.
I just got my first Samurai about a month ago. It's pretty solid, but needs some work. The previous owner done a spring over & homemade some shackles that measure a hair over 10 3/4 inches from end to end :o . On top of that, I need to rebuild the 1.3 due to a broken piston ring & what appears to be a blown head gasket. I did get to drive it for a couple of days before the head gasket blew, but with bad rings & 33 inch tires, it barely hit 45 mph. The guy I got it from did throw in a 1.6 block, but it has a melted connecting rod & scored crank. Also it's just a short block, no head or anything.
So since I'm new to the Zukiworld (pun intended) what direction should I go with this little beast? I plan to make it a CHEAP trail rig that might see some roads every once in a while.
-
nice looking rig! well i guess i will say it before anyone else, first question is always; what kind of trails do you plan on running? desert, rocks, mud etc...
-
Complete 1.6L (harness & ecu) around here are pretty cheap (less than the cost of a 1.3L rebuild kit & machine work). Because the 1.6L is fuel injected, it's much more powerful, and gets BETTER gas mileage than the 1.3L. If you can't afford (or can't find) a 1.6L, you can bolt the 1.6L lower you have to your 1.3L head (people have done it, you just need some special timing belt I think). If you're going to spend the $$$ on a rebuild kit - may as well have the bigger displacement of the 1.6L (much better torque curve).
With 33" tires, carry some front axle spares (buy the double toughs from TT if you can afford them - they're quite nice). You're also going to want some t-case gears. Samurai is unique in that the t-case gears reduce the gearing in high and low range (buy the gears that correct for the 33" tires in hi-range and you'll get 80%ish of your power back - 10-20% will be lost to the increase in rotational mass of the big tires). 2 to 2 1/4" exhaust, headers & high flow cat / muffler will also free a lot of ponies. If you keep your head & intake - the biggest restriction at that point will be your stock carb. Eventually you'll want to swap it for a bigger carb (there's cheap junk yard options from like a 1.8L Toyota), FI, or motorcycle side-draft carb(s). There's always the turbo option, but don't think about it unless you're going FI & have at $1,000-$2,000 to spend on it. If you have some $$$ laying around, the 2.0L is a good swap too.
-
Hey nice rig!! I gotta get me a Sammi! Welcome to the site!
-
As you will eventually find, there are as many opinions about what to do with your Sammy, as there are Sammy owners! I think Jeremiah is correct in that your probably better off just swapping the engine out for a known good later model 1.6 ltr. I know plenty of guys that use the stock running gear with 31's no prob. Start searching the site for ideas, you'll find plenty, and welcome aboard!
-
here goes my .02
If you plan to swap with small budget in mind the 1.6 or greater is probably the way to go (money vs. reward). HOWEVER if you do decide to rebuild there are more performance parts available for the 1.3 ( flat top 9.5 or 10.1 pistons) w/ the right carb and header you can get 95-115 HP. The problem that all builders are facing is lack of flat top or equivalent pistons for the 1.6. It forces you to stay w/ stock setup as far as pistons are concerned. Of course being a builder I will take the "Pepsi challenge" w/ any 1.6 swap vs. my 1.3 built Sammy. The downside is I spent 1200.00 building the motor, from what you said that may be too much. ANYWHOOO, NICE RIG AND GOOD LUCK! 8)
-
I would cut down those shackles a bit for starters. :D
If you want to stick with the 1.3, I would look at swapping in a 6.5:1 transfer case.
For the drive train, I would go with a mini-spool or a locker in the back. Later for the front a lock right with some rear side gears and a set of Double Tough chromoly axles from Trail Tough. And a traction bar if you plan on getting into things a bit, otherwise you can bend your rear springs up.
But it looks like a good start, what do you have for the steering setup?
-
out of curiosity jeremiah, what would a guesstimate be of the cost of a 2.0 swap done correctly? any links to info? i know that i have read you NEED to have a body lift or a HUGE hood scoop because it is bigger, but what else? are there kits? difficult electrical? etc? dont want to steal this thread, but since you brought it up...
-
Wow guys, thanks for all of the replies & I appreciate the compliments! Let me try to answer some questions & suggestions.
I plan on mostly running tight wooded trails with some mud & hill climbs. My main plans are to build a Jeep Killer for cheap. I mean isn't that the whole point of these? lol
I want to build this 1.6 lower end & bolt it up to the 1.3 stuff. Fuel injection is nice, but expensive. My problem is that I can't seem to find anyone that sells 1.6 rods since one of mine is seriously melted. The block looks fine & the crank has some grooves that could probably be cleaned up. I also have a FI intake, but no wiring, throttle body or head.
Wow, a 2.0? How do those compare to a 1.6 swap in terms of parts swapability & ease of installation? I had also looked into a Swift GTI 1.3 bottom end, but would it be worth it? I found one for $400 without the wiring harness.
I did make some holes farther up on the shackles because it was very unstable at any speed over about 15mph. Does anyone know what the factory shackle lengths are front & rear? I'm probably going to fabricate some about an inch longer than factory. After I dropped the shackle holes down, I had to put some 235/75R15s on that I had laying around. The 33's fit, but it looks tight so I might end up doing a shackle reversal if the cost is cheap enough or possibly a body lift to fit the 33's.
The steering looks like some sort of home-fabbed job just like everything else. I'll try to get some pics.
How cheap & easy would it be to get transfer case gears vs axle gears?
-
Welcome! I am fairly new here myself and have found plenty of good people here that want to help in any way they can...so far they have helped me keep going in the right direction. you will like it here.
-
Of course being a builder I will take the "Pepsi challenge" w/ any 1.6 swap vs. my 1.3 built Sammy.
Any 1.6L?
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=22360.0 (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=22360.0)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bentparts/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bentparts/)
;)
I'm not on the "build 1.3L" bandwagon. The HP & Torque numbers seem to be about the same as a stock 1.6L, and I'm an "area under the curve" guy. Peak numbers aren't too useful - how quickly does the engine build that torque? Do you have to run premium fuel to get the same numbers as a stock 1.6L? How useful is it for the average person to build a motor to do the same #s as an already available turn-key engine?
For $1,200 I can install a 2.0L and have money left over. More resourceful people have done the 2.5L swap for not much more coin. Just saw a complete 1.6L w/ harness in the for sale section for $300. As said - it's a cost vs benefit thing.
That said - guys like samipro who've got hopped up 1.3L engines sure seem to love 'em.
-
Any 1.6L?
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=22360.0[/url] ([url]http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=22360.0[/url])
;)
Wow, that is just awesome! I just want something to go trotting through the woods in, but that definitely caught my attention! I already have my 455 powered Cutlass project & two Chevelles if I want to go fast, but... I'm just speechless.
-
Any 1.6L?
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=22360.0[/url]
[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/bentparts/[/url]
Jeremiah, what about the camden blown 1.6 in the hill climb sammy,(yellow I think) I bet that'll beat a few 1.3s :P
I couldn't find the post but it's nice!
455 powered Cutlass project
Hey, I got one of those! 1969 442 clone here!
-
Hey, I got one of those! 1969 442 clone here!
Mine's a 72 Cutlass S, not one of those gawd awful Supremes, lol! It's completely gutted & I'm in the middle of rebuilding a 455 from a 68 Toro. I actually put that project on hold until I get through my upcoming wedding in August. Now I got this Zook that I'd like to get going, so it looks like it's going to be waiting for a few more months.
69 happens to be one of my favorites next to 71-72 & 65. 8)
-
My first was a '72. Those were my favorite body style, till I saw a '69. I got it for 500 bucks. I couldn't do anything with it, the rocket was seized :'( and had a hole in the floor I could stick my head through. I found a rotted & bondoed '69 true 442 that I drove daily for about 5 years (in Cleveland, including winters) :o. I'm now in the process of swapping all the goodies from that onto the clone. (used to be the hideous supreme) One good thing about making one good ride out of two decent ones, is I can sell extra parts to fund my Zuki addiction!!
-
You got a point about making 2 into one, sure does save money in the long run! The Supremes that I'm talking about were made from 70-72 & were notchbacks (for lack of better term). UGGHHH. At least your year Supreme can be fixed.
-
OK, I found a 16v 1.6 with harness & computer. Supposed to have 60,000 miles on it but no way to verify since it's out of the vehicle. What's a decent price to pay for this & is there anything more to installing this vs an 8v motor?
-
16V is supposed to be a little more involved ??? I see them for sale WELL under $1,000. Just saw one for $300 in the for sale section. I see them go, around here, for $300-$700 (this includes ECU, harness & a turn key engine with all accessories). People ask more, but they don't seem to get it sold 'till they drop the price. New economy and all :-\ You're also going to need the speedo (or another speedo) for the VSS, and Buick 318 motor mounts (can't find the part # for the life of me, but should be about $20 for the pair). I honestly don't know what the deal is with the "engine adapter plate" or if it can be bypassed... hopefully someone can chime in. From there, you'll need to spend some time with the wiring harnesses, or send them off to aftermarket4x4 / trail tough / your favorite vendor to have it done for you ($400ish after shipping I think).
If you can have them start it up, and warm it up - you can do a compression test on it. Not sure how useful a "cold" compression test would be? I'm not an expert. If it looks super dirty / gritty, or the belts (especially timing belt) looks cracked & worn - it might have more miles than they claim.
-
Sounds complicated, but I gotta ask, what is a Buick 318? Did you mean a 3.8 V6 or a Dodge 318 or what? Also, you're saying that even with a complete harness & ECM I still have to rewire everything? Why do I need another speedometer cable & can I run without one? This is mainly a trail toy, so I don't think I'll be getting a speeding ticket down in the holler, lol.
I might pass if it's as much trouble as you say.
He was asking $750, but price is negotiable & since it's already out of the vehicle I gotta take off the oil pan & valve covers to check everything. I like doing this anyway just to find metal shavings, loose bolts, etc.
-
The adapter plate is required because the bell housing bolt patterns on the 1.3 & 1.6 engines are different - I believe you can get by without it if you're willing to weld and re-drill in a couple of locations.
-
Of course being a builder I will take the "Pepsi challenge" w/ any 1.6 swap vs. my 1.3 built Sammy.
Any 1.6L?
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=22360.0[/url] ([url]http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=22360.0[/url])
[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/bentparts/[/url] ([url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/bentparts/[/url])
;)
I'm not on the "build 1.3L" bandwagon. The HP & Torque numbers seem to be about the same as a stock 1.6L, and I'm an "area under the curve" guy. Peak numbers aren't too useful - how quickly does the engine build that torque? Do you have to run premium fuel to get the same numbers as a stock 1.6L? How useful is it for the average person to build a motor to do the same #s as an already available turn-key engine?
For $1,200 I can install a 2.0L and have money left over. More resourceful people have done the 2.5L swap for not much more coin. Just saw a complete 1.6L w/ harness in the for sale section for $300. As said - it's a cost vs benefit thing.
That said - guys like samipro who've got hopped up 1.3L engines sure seem to love 'em.
Nice rig, and since were talkin apples top apples...hope this pic works
-
Nice 1.3! My dad works at a turbo shop, so fabricating something like that shouldn't be too hard if I could see how you did the routing. After reading Jeremiah's post, this looks like a cheaper easier alternative to the 16v swap... at least for me.
SammyPro, do you think a T25 with about 9psi would be OK or could I step up to a bigger turbo/more boost? Hollow parts on these motors led me to think I would be power limited.
-
the 16v swap is sick, great gains. My main hangup on buying swap motors w/ ???,??? miles is just that, the reliabilty. Ive broken down way out from nowhere and its LAIM, however new motors break too! The turbo setup im familiar with is for a airplane, not sure how it would cross reference for wheelin application. Ill get back to ya!!! 8)...........BTW, that 1.6 that was launching off the ramp was SICK
-
The more one moves away from stock, the more complicated it is. As far as engine swaps go, the 1.6L swap is relatively uncomplicated. Putting a 1.6L bottom onto your existing head will be 1/2 of the swap (making a 1.6L 8V), but will be very limited by the stock carborator (which is already restricting the capabilities of your 1.3L). It's the fuel injection that really wakes up the 1.6L engines. But, go with whatever works for you & your skill set. This may answer some of your questions:
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=25270.0 (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=25270.0)
Nice rig, and since were talkin apples top apples...hope this pic works
*drool*
-
Hey guys, I'm still here. I've just been using the search button a lot to answer my questions. NOTE TO OTHER NEWBS! IT WORKS! lol
I think I might try to rebuild this 1.6 8V that I have if anyone has parts for sale. If not I'll slap some flat tops, a cam & header on the 1.3L. I'm going to a smaller (gasp) tire size mainly so I don't break any axles on 33s & also so I can get some power back when I'm on the trails. I'm kind of budget limited for the moment & there's more work needed than originally thought. Anyone know where to score a removable hardtop for cheap? These soft tops are a pain!
Thanks again guys, this site has been a real help so far. BTW, Zaggy's Do it yerself engine build thread was very interesting to read.