ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: 37kicker on May 27, 2009, 07:50:54 PM
-
i was wondering if it would be worth the time and effort to design a complete drop in rock solid ifs system for a kick. i have some ideas . target price around 1000.00 or less. stan
-
I am curious!
-
Are we talking single or double wishbone? what would be included?
-
I really like ifs, what would be involved?
-
OK - I'm going to ask - what would the advantage be?
I drive a GrandVitara which comes with IFS and the impression I get reading the different forums is that, at least for off road use, IFS should be avoided. There seems to be a whole host of problems associated with IFS especially when body/suspension lifts are done and the ultimate seems to be a solid axle swap, and now for the first time I'm seeing someone looking to go the other way.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just being curious
-
Being mechanically challenged somewhat. How hard would the swap be once I buy the kit?
That said I think it is a great idea and would be interested in it.
If it is as strong as a Solid axle swap then the Return on Investment would work great since a solid swap is a few thousand plus
-
Talk to us Stan, I'm very interrested.
Hey fordem Shannon cambell built a ifs rig for King of the Hammers.
Kevin
-
im looking at building a housing, for the 7.5 r/p, different inner axles , toy cvs. should be bolt in. stan
-
Rock 4x Fab is supposedly working on a IFS lift. But, I think he gets distracted with other projects and has temporarily abandoned the lift kit. If you can beat him to market, I know there's a lot of people out there waiting for his lift.
I drive a GrandVitara which comes with IFS and the impression I get reading the different forums is that, at least for off road use, IFS should be avoided.
IFS has advantages, solid has advantages. Just depends on what you're doing, if you plan on doing the re-doing suspension more than once, how complicated of a build you want to do etc etc...
IFS whoops solid suspension at speed, and holds it's own in rocks just fine. I watched an IFS rig pass 2 vehicles in a SHORT section of BIG rocks 'casue he was able to take different lines, and the suspension moves SOOOOO much easier.
(http://www.todossantos-baja.com/blog/2007-nov-14-baja-1000-1.jpg)
(http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/photos/baja206.jpg)
(http://www.rit.edu/news/lib/filelib/200706/baja_ltu.jpg)
(http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.com/articleImages/38293.jpg)
http://www.dirtnewz.com/events-07/baja1000/images/riviera-finish.jpg (http://www.dirtnewz.com/events-07/baja1000/images/riviera-finish.jpg)
(http://www.rpm4x4.com/images/Tspikeavfshale207.jpg)
(http://zukiworld.com/section_actionrides/images/action/dscn0079.jpg)
(http://www.rpm4x4.com/images/Tspikeavfshale207.jpg)
Note how many IFS rigs are here: http://www.rpm4x4.com/specs-mike.shtml (http://www.rpm4x4.com/specs-mike.shtml). And, one of the most famous zook IFS rigs: http://www.izook.com/features/kickin/kickin.htm (http://www.izook.com/features/kickin/kickin.htm).
-
im not going to do a llift just a front diff, axles, housing. to make the front end stronger. stan
-
$1000 seems a bit steep. The aluminum front can be strengthened, or replaced with a Toyota or Grand Vitara steel front. The CV's can be replaced with Toyota CV (which is what the orange rig above is using, and his club is using, and they run 40" tires with great success). The big trick is getting the Toyota CV to play nice with the Suzuki hub / knuckle (is it called a knuckle? kingpin?). Actually, I'd love to see a swap that converts to Toyota front steel housing, CV & bolt pattern, so I can toss in a Toyota rear and open up a much larger aftermarket world of gears / lockers / etc... and still be IFS in the front.
Someone used to sell some kinda adaptor to make the toy CV work with the Suzuki stuff, but... he's vanished & doesn't respond to PM or order requests anymore :'(
-
im not going to do a llift just a front diff, axles, housing. to make the front end stronger. stan
I converted a sami rear end to a IFS for my tracker. I broke my one extended diff mount, and then the CV. I limped out of the woods, but used the unbroken side twice to get out.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_86HP5-adsWc/SYthIWJ2mbI/AAAAAAAADBU/EZ1oKcGMcnM/s640/CIMG3264.JPG)
It is a lot stronger than the aluminum one.
-
$1000 seems a bit steep. The aluminum front can be strengthened, or replaced with a Toyota or Grand Vitara steel front. The CV's can be replaced with Toyota CV (which is what the orange rig above is using, and his club is using, and they run 40" tires with great success). The big trick is getting the Toyota CV to play nice with the Suzuki hub / knuckle (is it called a knuckle? kingpin?). Actually, I'd love to see a swap that converts to Toyota front steel housing, CV & bolt pattern, so I can toss in a Toyota rear and open up a much larger aftermarket world of gears / lockers / etc... and still be IFS in the front.
Someone used to sell some kinda adaptor to make the toy CV work with the Suzuki stuff, but... he's vanished & doesn't respond to PM or order requests anymore :'(
Who do you think builds that stuff? ;)
It sounds like a solid plan Stan and knowing your stuff it will be a good thing 8)
-
Someone used to sell some kinda adaptor to make the toy CV work with the Suzuki stuff, but... he's vanished & doesn't respond to PM or order requests anymore :'(
:laugh:
I'm interested.
-
im not going to do a llift just a front diff, axles, housing. to make the front end stronger. stan
This actually brings up another question for me - again, it's based on what I read - and for those of you who wonder why my questions are based on what I read, I've had my GV for just over two months, and there are no off road clubs out here for me to see what other folks have done, so I get what information I can from the internet and guys like you.
Any way - back to the question - I get the impression that the GV's alloy front diff is not that strong (and yes, mine has an alloy diff), but, it's usually not a problem until folks start to lift things and run bigger tires, etc. - so - am I labouring under a misconception or is there really a need for a stronger IFS if it's not going to be lifted?
-
if your going to stay stock no need to upgrade. some fellow zukers do not have the tools to fab hot rod parts is why i might do this. the price is just a guess still looking in to stuff buying equip to do the spline work my self or farm it out. and i did not vanish just buisy and i try to reply to every one. some times i for get who i replied to. thanks for the compliment cj stan
-
Now I'm more confused !! Was that in answer to my post (the one immediately preceeding it)? You're the one who said you weren't planning a lift - if I was planning to stay stock I wouldn't be here asking questions.
I'm one of the folks who lack the facilities to fab stuff, and even something as conceptually simple as swapping the alloy front diff for a steel one would be challenging (at least locating one would) - hence my interest.
-
you asked about a need to up grade the allu. front diff , if you are going to lift your truck and 31's the stock diff will break sooner or later. the kit i might build will only address the weak allu. front diff and axle problems that you might encounter with larger tires and agressive wheeling. and yes the steel diffs are hard to find stan
-
Hey
I lifted mine and have 31's on it, and I feel the front diff is the weak link... still no solutions to the problem as there are ZERO steel diffs around here.
Bryce
-
I think it sounds like a great idea
-
If you are worried about breaking your front diff, check this thread out by ZuesZukih
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=21156.0
-
I have seen that, but I dont have access to those parts.
I would probably be fabing up some kind on pinon brace. I know the diff housing is aluminum, but are the diff mounts/brackets?
Bryce
-
Stan,
I think it's a great idea with a need in the market place, but keep in mind you are dealing with Zuk owners. $1000 for a good front end set up is a good price for most any vehicle. I had over $1900 in the Anvil set up I had in the white Kick (just parts, not counting labor, blown CV's, etc..). When I went to sale the complete front end set up (anvil, GV Steel housing, 5.83's, Detroit locker, maxima shafts) I only had a few serious lookers. But when the person came along that needed a bullet proof front end, they jumped on it quick.
I think it would definitely sale, just not in high volumes,
My 2 cents,
Zig
-
Fordem, If you are planning a lift, you can always strengthen your diff mounts in the front to help prevent twisting of the small side. That's what usually breaks, the small mount, from the diff twisting in it's mounts. A good skid plate is insurance too, against slamming somthing into the housing.
Stan, I think Zukipilot has a good point. It's a great concept, but very few Zuk owners would probably spend that much on ANYTHING! Hell, most of them think 1k is too much to PAY for a Trackick! Personally, I think it's a bargain. Calmini gets $700+ for an empty anvil.
-
i agree with you guys :( but i thought id throw the whole concept out there for some feedback, i'll might still figure it all out for the few... stan
-
i agree with you guys :( but i thought id throw the whole concept out there for some feedback, i'll might still figure it all out for the few... stan
Still sounds like a great Idea.
-
Having the ability to machine sleeves, you could do sami housing conversions for a reasonable cost. My conversion was not hard to do, but could be improved on. I had to special order a seal, and was able to use the sami bearings. It appears as I might have to have the Drivers Side bearing seal sleeve machined to make it a little deeper (when bearing is up against the seal part of shaft, too much axle still exposed).
Also I have broke a lengthened mount. Need to improve on those.
If you set up to convert these housings, like your Toyota CV conversions, there may be enough interest to make it worthwhile.
-
im not going to do a llift just a front diff, axles, housing. to make the front end stronger. stan
This actually brings up another question for me - again, it's based on what I read - and for those of you who wonder why my questions are based on what I read, I've had my GV for just over two months, and there are no off road clubs out here for me to see what other folks have done, so I get what information I can from the internet and guys like you.
Any way - back to the question - I get the impression that the GV's alloy front diff is not that strong (and yes, mine has an alloy diff), but, it's usually not a problem until folks start to lift things and run bigger tires, etc. - so - am I labouring under a misconception or is there really a need for a stronger IFS if it's not going to be lifted?
no, not really. the stronger front end is usualy only needed when you lift/lock the front end.
-
i was thinking of using the tracker rear 7.5" and housing or maby a fabed housing. stan
-
The 7.5 housing is MUCH BIGGER than the Sami's. I even trimmed the bottom swell out and replaced it with flat bar to keep it from hanging too low. If you used the 7.5" housing there would be no room to lower the diff., without it hanging below the cross members.
The Sami diff's seem to be pretty strong, until the taller gears, which are getting very hard to find. So they should work for most rigs.
-
The rear axil mod and put up front was one of Mike H. early mods. I remember seeing it a Zooki Melt.
It did fit with little to no room left.
He used the complete rear gearing also. Figuring even running the larger rear gear backwards (rotation is correct but the cut of the gears would be wrong for the front) and using the backside of the gear. It would be stronger that the orginal front.
-
yes, its mikes idea we've built several of these since the first one, they work great, i was going to see if i could change some stuff and make some room for a little more clearance. the sami front is still a 7" r/p i was looking for more strength. stan