ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: 4Zstracker on June 07, 2009, 05:33:23 PM
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This probably a noob question, but here goes anyway; Do any of you guys running IFS Trackicks use Sway-bar disconnects? If so where can I find, or how can I make some? Or do y'all leave it connected, or just remove the Sway-bar?
Im running a 96 2 door, aprox 3.5'' lift in the front and 31" BFG m/t's. I run in light to medium rocks and desert most of the time. ;D
Oh and its my Daily Driver most of the time, so the sway-bar is kinda important for highway driving.
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i have ran with a sway bar and with out a sway bar. i think it works better with a sway bar.
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Mines gone and so is my brothers on his Cherokee, both driven daily. We never missed 'em.
The flex is much better. I'd yank 'em.
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We noticed a bit more body roll on BRD HNTR's tracker with the sway bar pulled off, so we put it back on. We just keep a 14mm wrench in the glove box to pull it off once we go to hit the trails. As long as you are on level ground it pops right back in place.
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We noticed a bit more body roll on BRD HNTR's tracker with the sway bar pulled off, so we put it back on. We just keep a 14mm wrench in the glove box to pull it off once we go to hit the trails. As long as you are on level ground it pops right back in place.
hey, whereabouts do you disconnect the sway bar with the 14mm ?
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I took mine off....it's way better out on the trails, and I can't even tell it's not there when I'm on the road.
I can corner like an F1 car with my 2" coil spacers and 30" all terrain tires.....no tire noise...and no fear of flipping it over.
I personally think an "anti" sway bar on a track/kick is just silly. They're too small and lightweight to really NEED one. All it does is prevent the suspension from doing it's job, which is what you DON'T want out on the trails. I still have mine, but I don't plan on putting it back on anytime soon.
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I would not drive at highway speeds with the sway bar removed - try a sharp left/right/left swerve at about 30 mph or so with and then without the sway bar - I'll bet you can tell the difference afterwards.
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I have no sway bar anymore. It is a little "freeer" in the front but I'd never put it back on.
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I would not drive at highway speeds with the sway bar removed - try a sharp left/right/left swerve at about 30 mph or so with and then without the sway bar - I'll bet you can tell the difference afterwards.
If you don't know what to expect.....you will have the same result in almost any vehicle. That probably isn't a very good example....sway bar or not, don't deliberately swerve left to right at any speed.
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hey, whereabouts do you disconnect the sway bar with the 14mm ?
Underneat the A-arms you can pull the nut, washer and rubber bushing off. If you do it on both sides you can then push the sway bar up and out of the way. You need to do it to both sides and be on level ground to remove it. just make sure you keep track of all the pieces to put it back together.
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Clock me in strongly on the pro-anti-swabar side of the ledger.
Not only is there an obvious handling difference on the road (and, come on... if GM/Suzuki/every modern automaker thought it didn't serve any purpose, they'd for damned sure save the pennies and leave it off), I upped mine to the thicker XL-7 one.
Off-road, it's completely counterproductive. A quick-disconnect solution would be awesome.
And now I'll leave the argument.
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If you don't know what to expect.....you will have the same result in almost any vehicle. That probably isn't a very good example....sway bar or not, don't deliberately swerve left to right at any speed.
Alright, I'll step back in for a sec... Your entire comment is complete baloney and crappy advice. Deliberately swerving is DEFINITELY the way you want to do it the first time, and will go a long way to preventing someone from not knowing what to expect. The last thing you want to do is be surprised how your car/truck is going to handle when doing it in an emergency. And yes, there is a distinct difference with and without the bar. Whether or not you're cool with that difference is up to you, but advising someone to introduce the handling difference, and then advising them to never experience it for himeself under controlled conditions, is spectacularly irresponsible.
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I never told anyone to take their bars off....I only stated that I took mine off....and I personally think they're silly on such a small, underpowered vehicle.....AND, you'll get nearly the same result in almost any vehicle by deliberately swerving on the road at highway speeds....(by which I mean loss of control and ultimately crashing), so I said "don"t do it.
How is that baloney, and spectacularly irresponsible?
I can be pretty hard on my own vehicles....and I probably push them to their limits occasionally....but I'm sure there's a majority of people that don't generally have access to a closed course in which they can test their cars for all sorts of unpredictable situations. How many people do you know that even know the differences in all the kinds of oversteer there is...hell, I can only name a couple off the top of my head.(power oversteer, lift-off oversteer...?)
All of what I just said is the reason I said "don't deliberately swerve at high speeds". I'm not trying to fight....just prevent someone from getting hurt.
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If you don't know what to expect.....you will have the same result in almost any vehicle. That probably isn't a very good example....sway bar or not, don't deliberately swerve left to right at any speed.
Which is why I suggested that the test be done at a relatively low speed - you will find out under controlled conditions what to expect with the sway bar removed.
You may be comfortable with the handling of your vehicle without the sway bar, but are you in control over the circumstances under which it is being operated?
I'd like to share a little story - a true one - that will explain why I feel the way I do, and why I made the suggestion that I did.
A couple of decades back, I had a station wagon on which I was doing some work, and I had removed the sway bar - it didn't seem to affect the handling significantly, and since I needed to make a short trip (just around 25 miles) on the weekend I figured I would drive it anyway
Three adults and one child in the vehicle, I was overtaking a slower moving truck on a two lane road, doing maybe 45 mph, and I had to make some sort of evasive maneuver, I don't recall why, but I do recall the result - the wagon swayed wildly back and forth, and it was by the grace of God that I did not lose control and end up under the wheels of the truck.
As a result of that incident I DO know what to expect with & without the sway bar - and I WILL NOT operate a vehicle at highway speeds with the sway bar removed.
Also for what it's worth - over the years I have routinely done that left/right/left swerve (except that since we drive on the left here it's actually a right/left/right) - you don't have to saw the wheel back and forth, just rock it - it does a couple of things, I can judge the condition of the steering, the suspension and the wheel bearings all at one go.
Now - tell me - are you operating that vehicle without the sway bar on the public thoroughfare? And if the answer is yes - please also tell me which state you are in - so I can stay out of your way, because heaven forbid you need to take any sort of evasive action at any reasonable speed - I'd much rather myself and family not be in the immediate vicinity.
Anyone else wants advice on removing the swaybar - I invite you to try that little test, and when you're done, and you know how the vehicle will react, think about the vehicle's normal role - Is it a daily driver? will it see highway (high speed) use? Will you be the only driver? At the end you'll be able to make your own, informed decision.
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Hey guys, dint mean to get anybody fired up.
Drone, you say that you remove the nuts at the bar ends under the control arms, right. So do you just leave the bar hanging loose then, or do you secure it up out of the way somehow?
I personally think for safety reasons I would like to keep my sway bar functional, since this is a daily driven vehicle. So some way of disconnecting it quickly and then reconnecting easily is what i think Im after. Altering a safety device can be inherently dangerous and I would personally like to avoid doing so.
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IF you disconnect the end link hardware, I would suggest you find a way to tie the sway bar up and out of the way - if not it will move and possibly foul other suspension, brake or steering components (depends on the vehicle).
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So far these are all very good arguments, for and against running the sway bar. I agree with the statements about running them on the highway, yes it does make a difference. I have a bit over 3.5 in" suspension lift and I can definitely notice a significant amount of body roll in fast corners, like on/off ramps. So I slow down for them. I've also had to make a 90 degree panic turn at about 35 mph to avoid hitting a child . Yeah it handled like a boat, but I did not roll it. The key here is knowing what to expect, and good training. If you want to know what your vehicle can do, go find a big empty parking lot and have at it. I also think a good driver can compensate for handling quirks, to a great extent. Maybe not always, but more than the average brain dead driver in their 8 airbagged, traction controlled, accident avoidence system equipped safty sedan. Go practice driving at the limit. It'll do more for you than all the sway bars you can mount.
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Drone, you say that you remove the nuts at the bar ends under the control arms, right. So do you just leave the bar hanging loose then, or do you secure it up out of the way somehow?
We just leave it there. The A-arm will push it up out of the way if needed. If your worried about breaking the studs off you can zip tie them to the strut bar so they aren't hanging down anymore. You can't push it up completely out of the way very well as it would hit the steering bar. I would pull it off and take a look and see if you are comfortable with how it sits.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_86HP5-adsWc/SO11g-Dl4DI/AAAAAAAACU4/EborNn4dkeA/s640/CIMG3074.JPG)
On my Daily Driver I actually installed a rear anti-sway bar to eliminate the body roll on turns and at highway speeds. :D
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Maybe not always, but more than the average brain dead driver in their 8 airbagged, traction controlled, accident avoidence system equipped safty sedan.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
My kingdom for a stripped down body-on-frame 4x4 that doesn't say "JEEP" on it. Do Suzuki execs monitor these boards occasionally? ??? Bring back the OLD Sidekick/Vitara and import the Jimny and call it a Samurai! >:(
Sorry to get completely off track, but every time I see a $45k vehicle like bentparts described, it reminds me what made Suzuki a sales success in the 80's. Why can't somebody sell "basic transportation" anymore.
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Maybe not always, but more than the average brain dead driver in their 8 airbagged, traction controlled, accident avoidence system equipped safty sedan.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Why can't somebody sell "basic transportation" anymore.
True that. I sold chevys for a while >:D, its rediculous how much useless crap you can cram into a vehicle these days.
And thanks for all the input on the sway-bars.
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Why can't somebody sell "basic transportation" anymore.
Because the federal safety requirements prevent it ? "Basic transportation" is still sold in the third world emerging economies - the Samurai is alive and well in the form of the Maruti Gypsy (http://www.marutigypsy.com/).
On a different but somewhat related note - I believe I saw (somewhere on the 'net, that the Tata Nano will be sold in the US, it'll be interesting to see how it fares.
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It doesn't take very long to pull the sway bar off. Why don't you remove it and find out if you like it ???
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What about the electronic disconnecting ones - I see Dodge Ram Power Wagons have them and some Rubikons -They only disconnect in 4X4 LO, Are they magnetic ??? I would be afraid they would somehow get snagged while off roading.
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I would not drive at highway speeds with the sway bar removed - try a sharp left/right/left swerve at about 30 mph or so with and then without the sway bar - I'll bet you can tell the difference afterwards.
I have a LWB SJ413 in India and have removed the anti-sway bar for some time now. I have driven some 2000 miles now after that on highway and no major issues what so ever. I have done 60 MPH easily and no major issues even while normal highway cornering.
There is some bodyroll but nothing scary
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Can't we get a group of like 20 of us who want the Calmini sway bars (front and rear kit) that is "temporarily discontinued?" I'm sure if enough of us had a definite interest to buy them, they would make a large enough batch. I'll be #1 on the list, I want them to go with my kit I am installing now
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Depending on what you need it for I would order a swaybar kit from Summit Racing instead of the Calmini kit. I had to bend the bar to make it fit properly and I ended up welding the mounts instead of trying their drilling through the frame solution.
Unless you need the heavier duty from sway bar, then you might as well. But I'm just using the rear.
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Drone that's nice to know. How long ago was this? Because I am wondering if Calmini found the defect in the fitment of the bar (where you say you had to bend it and weld the brackets) and has since corrected it in their manufacturing process. Good to know though if that's still the case with the sway bars, if they haven't corrected it at all
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A year or two back, not sure exactly. I think it was two summers ago. With only a 1" lift things just fit together smoothly and I that is why I had to make the mods. With a 3" lift the bar may have fit a little better, I think it was really designed for heavily lifted or lowered rigs.
There was a thread a while back talking about rear sway bars and there was one person that just picked up the Summit kit, I decided to spend a little extra for the Calmini kit as it was "made to fit". But like I said earlier I had to mod it anyway, which is why I recommend just measuring things out and buying a generic kit and putting it on yourself.
All that being said, the rear end handles great now on the road. The rear tires will kick out and slide on a corner before the body even begins to roll far enough to feel like a roll over is eminent. You can really drive it around the streets like a sports car. Of course, then you have to deal with the fact that your rear end just broke loose when in the middle of that downhill off-camber corner that you went in a little hot during the rain. I need to go back to softer shocks on the rear, I'm using the Ford Crown Vick shocks and they are way to stiff for the setup I have now.
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Yeah see I am currently installing the Calmini 3" suspension lift, so I wonder if it is made for that application ideally
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The sway bar is an integral part of the suspension, it is a torsion spring that makes the front suspension much stiffer in corners than it is on the straight. If your suspension is much stiffer than stock then you may not notice as much difference. I disconnected my sway bar and the handling was not nice at all with lots of understeer, I put it back on. My car was new at the time so all the suspension was stock in perfect shape.
I found that adding 35mm wheel spacers restored the handling enough to run without the sway bar.
I don't know how things are in the States but over here you have to declare all mods to your insurance company, they usually baulk at a mod like that.
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'96 4-door w/ OME suspension & 29" M/T tires... I notice quite a difference - especially in "emergency" style maneuvers at speed. On road, my vehicle feels much better with the sway bar on. It takes 5 Min (if that) to disconnect / re-connect when I go off-road. I always have a small ammo can with hand tools with me when I go off-pavement anyway.
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When you guys talk about quickly disconnecting it are you just removing the link pin end? How are you keeping it from getting pulled down when off roading? I have an 01 so my bar mounts under the control arm.