ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: 3stagevtec on June 20, 2009, 10:18:17 PM
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Hello everyone, new to the forums..
I Just bought and installed the 2.5" lift kit from Calmini for my 1998 SGV..
Here are some install pics and a quick on road performance review..
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This was the stock stock height of the vehicle..
(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/3779/dsc00116ky4.jpg)
You can see the limited clearance on this incline..
YouTube - Suzuki Grand Vitara Offroad 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV29P-MpVI4)
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Calmini Parts
Calmini front spring next to the OE front..
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02918.jpg)
Calmini rear springs next to the OE rear..
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02944.jpg)
Front Control Arm
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02915.jpg)
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02916.jpg)
Calmini arm next to the OE arm
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02925.jpg)
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02926.jpg)
One of the huge advantages of the Calmini arm is that the ball joints are removable, so when it goes bad, i can just replace the ball joint.. and not the entire arm! which costs quite alot..
You can see on the OE arm that the ball joint is permanently attached.. the beefy calmini ball is next to it..
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02928.jpg)
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02929.jpg)
OE front struts with spacers bolted to them.. (The Calmini Struts came late, so i had used back the OE struts / rear shocks for a while)
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02930.jpg)
The girlfriend lending a hand! :D
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02923.jpg)
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02934.jpg)
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02936.jpg)
Front end lifted
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02939.jpg)
Front and Rear springs installed..
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02948.jpg)
You might notice that the rear looks abit sagged.. that's because the OE rear shocks are too short! they are fully extended and loaded up against the bump stops..
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC02998.jpg)
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This was when i installed the Calmini struts and shocks.. The front struts didn't make much difference in ride height, but the rear went up a little..
The difference between the longer Calmini shock vs the shorter OE shock.. for the rear of the vehicle..
The shock is fully extended..
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC03064.jpg)
The longer Calmini shock, you can see the extra travel..
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv114/stage3vtec/DSC03065.jpg)
I had to lengthen the rear differential breather hose and move the clamp for the handbrake cables to allow for the greater travel on the rear suspension..
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Driving Impressions (On Road)
When you begin driving, one the the first things you will notice is the stiffer front springs. On the twisty roads, they do a good job at resisting body roll and it gives the front end a well planted feel.. Under hard braking, the front end doesn't dive down as much either..
One problem i found is that the front dampers don't seem up to the task of fully controlling those springs, and this can be easily seen if you drive over a speed bump at an angle (i.e. 45degrees).. You get a small feeling of being tossed around inside the vehicle..
The soft rear springs with longer travel are excellent for off road use, but not that great for improving the turn-in feel of the vehicle during sporty drives.. I have no issues with the rear dampers..
Overall, i would give the handling characteristics of the Calmini kit a 6 out of 10 for on road driving feel.
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Are you running it with the swaybar on or off? If you take the swaybar off you won't get the head-toss going over speedbumps sideways, and your flex will improve as well!
And the Calmini struts aren't worth the effort to install. I got 1000 km out of mine before they both blew up. You'd probably have better luck sticking with the factory units.
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I'm still using the sway bar as this is my daily ride.. I prefer it on for the reduced body roll..
I really hope my struts last longer than 1000kms! i also read on this forum where another guy's struts broke after just 2 weeks! ???
i wonder if the stiff springs are responsible for the high failure rate??
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I'm still using the sway bar as this is my daily ride.. I prefer it on for the reduced body roll..
Believe me, you won't notice it gone. I drove mine, nearly daily, with the 2.5" Calmini + 3" Calmini body lift, and 31"s tires, and it rode and handled WAY better without the sway bar.
And that is in NYC traffice as well as high-speed interstate driving.
Try it. If you don't like it off, its simple to put back on.
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That guy who's struts lasted 2 weeks IS me! That's why I'm so bitter about it.
The problem is the struts are too short for the amount of lift the springs give. I just finished installing my Monroe Sensa-Trac replacement struts and I lowered the vehicle and saw the strut compress a mere 1/4". That's right, I have all of a 1/4" of down-travel before my suspension tops out. The rest of the kit is nice enough, I just wish they had designed the strut area correctly. I'm still driving my Sidekick around wondering what the solution to this problem on my Vitara is.
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I read on a guy's cardomain ride that the Rocky-Road OME struts are longer than the Calmini struts and the stock struts. I think there was even a picture, but I can't find it again. Anybody know if this is true?
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Yes, it is true. They have 1.5" more travel I believe. They are also quite expensive, but when I look at how much I'm spending on replacement struts and alignment after alignment and all my time and labour, it's probably worth the extra dough. I have read that if you use the OME struts in conjunction with the Calmini strut spacer then your CV shafts get too much angle on them in extreme flex, and they will fail prematurely. But f you use the OME strut without the spacer, it is too short I think. You will need a spacer that is appropriately sized for the lift/strut combo.
FTS4x4 also makes longer struts. I have no idea if they are any good or not.
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i run the fts struts ( extreme ) and the down travel is massive, i have struggled to get the front tire off as the strut drops down so much :o mi am very happy withg them and the ride in the front is very soft....
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I would go with the BDS strut spacers, they are IMO the best solution. That way you can run stock struts but have about 2" or 2.5" more travel from your struts, AND you can still use your strut tower bar.
Yes, it is true. They have 1.5" more travel I believe. They are also quite expensive, but when I look at how much I'm spending on replacement struts and alignment after alignment and all my time and labour, it's probably worth the extra dough. I have read that if you use the OME struts in conjunction with the Calmini strut spacer then your CV shafts get too much angle on them in extreme flex, and they will fail prematurely. But f you use the OME strut without the spacer, it is too short I think. You will need a spacer that is appropriately sized for the lift/strut combo.
FTS4x4 also makes longer struts. I have no idea if they are any good or not.
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anyone have a link to the BDS strut spacers for the SGV??
i not seeing any Suzuki parts on their site..
this one..
http://www.bds-suspension.com/
and what's the size of their strut spacer?
thanks
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boondox sells the strut extensions you refer to also, but good luck getting them, i ordered mine 3 weeks ago and have gotten no shipping confirmation or anything, can't get ahold of them now that they've got my money. now im fucked, should have order OME.
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I ordered for Boondox a long time ago. Never did recieve the extensions, but they did refund my money after a while. I just bought the spacers from Jeff.
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I ordered for Boondox a long time ago. Never did recieve the extensions, but they did refund my money after a while. I just bought the spacers from Jeff.
who is Jeff and where can i find him?? link me up please!
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I bought these from our Friend from the UK. He shipped them to me on the west coast and I had them within a week. Slightly shorter than the BDS, but very good quality.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Suzuki-Vitara-GV-1-5-Machined-Front-Strut-Spacers_W0QQitemZ130258871830QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1e5408a616&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Suzuki-Vitara-GV-1-5-Machined-Front-Strut-Spacers_W0QQitemZ130258871830QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1e5408a616&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)
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I ordered for Boondox a long time ago. Never did recieve the extensions, but they did refund my money after a while. I just bought the spacers from Jeff.
who is Jeff and where can i find him?? link me up please!
Here's the link
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=3d63a3b0f5e5a49c3b89e20532b28331&topic=24199.0
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i run the bds strut spacers in my xl7 and have used them in my sidekicks, works great.....
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I ordered for Boondox a long time ago. Never did recieve the extensions, but they did refund my money after a while. I just bought the spacers from Jeff.
when i made my order to boondox i was very very clear that if they were not available to ship i would not order.... don't have time and money to waste with lazy people who talk crap. hopefully things will work out soon. i also ordered longer rear shocks.......
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Strut thread extenders - Contact Dave Jones at Bits4Vits, you will have them in about a week, no joke the guy runs a post office and is very prompt and great to deal with. He sent me OME struts, axle parts, drive shaft extenders and more in under a weeks time.
Check out his store
http://www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/ (http://www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/)
updated Oct 2011
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Plus he's got a new 3" body lift !!!!! I'm almost tempted to buy it. I got his strut extenders and the rear panhad bar relocation bracket. All his stuff really is top notch...
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Strut thread extenders - Contact Dave Jones at Bits4Vits, you will have them in about a week, no joke the guy runs a post office and is very prompt and great to deal with. He sent me OME struts, axle parts, drive shaft extenders and more in under a weeks time.
Check out his store
[url]http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/Bits4Vits__W0QQ_armrsZ1[/url] ([url]http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/Bits4Vits__W0QQ_armrsZ1[/url])
i will check this out when i figure out if my stuff has ever been shipped or not... opened a dispute on paypal yesterday to get his attention, really i hope he sends me the tracking number for the order he claims to have shipped.... should have gone the bits4vits route, he has a few other items i could put to use...
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Please forgive me for taking your post away from Calmini but Bits4Vits just launched a new web site, I can speak for how fast he ships.
http://www.bits4vits.com/
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Can you fit the strut bar over the engine with those strut spacer from calmini i look on mine and there's about 1 inch of clearence between the engin and the strut bar .
Bye Marc ???
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Yes, you can use the strut bar with these spacers.
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Can you fit the strut bar over the engine with those strut spacer from calmini i look on mine and there's about 1 inch of clearence between the engin and the strut bar .
Bye Marc ???
I could be wrong, but if I understand how this works (and your question), installing strut spacers should/would have no impact on the location of the strut bar.
The strut bar bolts on to the topside of the frame mount and the strut bolts on to the bottom side - the strut spacer bolts on between the top of strut and the bottom of the frame mount, so the top of the strut moves down, and everything else remains exactly where it was, you end up with a little less up travel (compression) on the strut and a little more down travel (extension), before the strut itself reaches end of travel.
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i'd like to see some close up pics of the calmini spacer installed along with some close up pics of aftermarket spacers people have installed. there must be a way to make some spacers that work the same way that don't cause reinstall issues?
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i'd like to see some close up pics of the calmini spacer installed along with some close up pics of aftermarket spacers people have installed. there must be a way to make some spacers that work the same way that don't cause reinstall issues?
you don't even have to unbolt the strut bar to install the "after market" strut extentions" , jack up truck, unscrew the center strut bolt, lower the suspension down until the threads of the strut come out of the mount, screw on extention, jack up suspension while feeding strut back into mount, install nut and your done.....
all it does is make the shaft of the stock strut longer, pretty simple
-Lance
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you don't even have to unbolt the strut bar to install the "after market" strut extentions" , jack up truck, unscrew the center strut bolt, lower the suspension down until the threads of the strut come out of the mount, screw on extention, jack up suspension while feeding strut back into mount, install nut and your done.....
all it does is make the shaft of the stock strut longer, pretty simple
-Lance
Aaaah - I think the post you're responsing to is specific to the Calimin spacer, which does not install as you describe - it's a triangular affair that bolts fits between the upper strut mount and the frame rather than just extending the strut shaft.
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correct, i've been running extensions for a couple years.. interested in the calmini spacer and other aftermarket spacers.. thanks.
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Yes, you guys are talking about the issue Jeff Hoepkers is attempting to engineer with his strut spacers he's making for his coil lift kit... which is how to use a triangular strut spacer while retaining the three mounting tabs for the strut tower brace on top over the engine.
Sir Lance is referring to the screw-on strut spacers that thread onto the top of the strut shaft. They require no mods to retain the strut tower brace and, as he indicated, are much easier to install with less hassles.
There has been some concern voiced on the forum of the safety and durability of the screw-on extenders versus just using triangular spacers. I've been giving thought to that arguement and it appears to me IF the screw-on strut extenders are made of a quality material and made to correct specs, they should be as reliable as any extender. Dave's (Bits4Vits) strut extenders have a screw-in lock built into to prevent the extender from "unscrewing" itself. But... here's my point: the trucks come with one nut holding the strut shaft from the top. They never come unscrewed (if torqued properly). The strut body moves up and down... but it doesn't rotate. It can't. The strut body has two bolts holding it. Can't see the shaft itself moving independetly enough to unscrew the extenders. If the materials the extender are made of are quality... I think they are good to go. When the strut compressess the weight of the truck is on the machined shoulder of the strut extender. When the truck rebounds, the weight of the arm, tire and spring pressure (not the truck) is on the threads of the extender. The extenders have four times as much thread area as the OE nut holding the strut into the strut mount.
My experience is the screw-on spacers I bought from BDS were NOT machined to correct tolerances = not made well, hence the problem I (and many others) had screwing them on the strut shaft. I took my second set to a friend's machine shop and he "cleaned" up the tolerance for me THEN they screwed right on (like they should have in the first place). The second concern I had was they appeared to be made of a soft (cheap) steel. Personally, I intend to stay with the screw-on strut extenders, but I will not use the ones BDS markets in the future. The only exception will be IF I ever bust for a set of OME struts.
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nprecon
Maybe I am missing something - you say the strut body moves up and down but does not rotate - I believe that is incorrect.
This is your basic McPherson strut - control arm with ball joint at the bottom, spindle with wheel attaches to the balljoint, strut attaches to the spindle, strut upper mount attaches to strut and secures it to the body (or in this case frame).
The spindle & strut rotate (or swivel) as an assembly, pivoting between the ball joint and the upper strut mount - I can't say for sure that the GV upper strut mount contains a bearing, but I've disassembled a few similar mounts from other vehicles and those had needle roller bearings the sole purpose of whch were to allow the strut to rotate so that the steering can function.
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Good catch fordem, thanks for that correction. I should have stated that the lower part of the strut pivots with the spindle, but with the two bolts holding it to the spindle, it can't rotate 360. It moves back and forth in a small arc (to turn as you stated). That was my point about the lower strut. As far as the shaft... it protrudes through the strut mount which appears to be just a bushing on my Trackers (and which also frequently seizes to the shaft requiring it to be replaced with the strut) and then is secured by the nut on the top. Given the above, I just don't buy into the concern of the screw-on strut extenders becoming "unscrewed" during vehicle operation if they are properly seated when installed AND the actual extender/s used are well machined and made of a quality metal. The quality of the strut extenders being the key. That said, I am driving on BDS extenders which I do intend to replace before long. Whether I go with Dave's (Bits4Vits) or have some machined locally, I do intend to replace them. Knock on wood... no failures yet though. Hope I better stated my thoughts. Thanks.
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nprecon - I fully agree that quality is a key point.
However - something else crossed my mind after I made that post, on the struts I've replaced there has always been a way to hold the strutrod so that the nut can be tightened - either flats on the end of the rod or a hole to take an allen wrench - neither of which would be accessible when you're installing a screw-on strut extender - seems to me there's no way to ensure that the extender is properly attached.
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Hello!!
check these strut spacers too!!
http://outdoorauto4x4.com/b/22762/1/grand-vitara-xl7.html (http://outdoorauto4x4.com/b/22762/1/grand-vitara-xl7.html)
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nprecon - I fully agree that quality is a key point.
However - something else crossed my mind after I made that post, on the struts I've replaced there has always been a way to hold the strutrod so that the nut can be tightened - either flats on the end of the rod or a hole to take an allen wrench - neither of which would be accessible when you're installing a screw-on strut extender - seems to me there's no way to ensure that the extender is properly attached.
the screw on ones have a flat on top as well, but, all Ive ever used was an impact gun, it bottoms out on the steel bushing inside the rubber mount, trust me, its tight.....
-Lance
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i've been running the bds extensions for 2yrs and have had no issues other than installing them, had to use heat to thread them on. popped 3 strut mounts since using this setup.. have not front bump stop extensions though..
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the screw on ones have a flat on top as well, but, all Ive ever used was an impact gun, it bottoms out on the steel bushing inside the rubber mount, trust me, its tight.....
-Lance
I think we're looking at the same area, but different locations - what you seem to be describing is the external thread at the top of the strut extension, where it passes through the mount - yes you can get that tight - where I'm looking at is the internal thread at the bottom of the extension, where it attaches to the strut - there seems to be no way to hold the strut itself, so that you can tighten the extension to the strut.
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[/quote]
I think we're looking at the same area, but different locations - what you seem to be describing is the external thread at the top of the strut extension, where it passes through the mount - yes you can get that tight - where I'm looking at is the internal thread at the bottom of the extension, where it attaches to the strut - there seems to be no way to hold the strut itself, so that you can tighten the extension to the strut.
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ooohhhh, thats what your talking about, all ive ever done is use vice grips (lightly) on the shaft, but you also need to heat up the extension part first, they are somewhat of an interference fit, once they cool down after being installed they are tight.
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Also Red Locktite works.
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sir lance, I still think the reason the screw-on strut extenders need to be heated to install or the strut shafts polished is because the strut extensions are not machined properly. Poor quality milling. The last set I installed I took them to my neighbor and he measured the inside with a micrometer and found they were several thousandths out of round. He milled them "true" after measuring the strut shaft diameter and they screwed right on... smoothly I might add.
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sir lance, I still think the reason the screw-on strut extenders need to be heated to install or the strut shafts polished is because the strut extensions are not machined properly. Poor quality milling. The last set I installed I took them to my neighbor and he measured the inside with a micrometer and found they were several thousandths out of round. He milled them "true" after measuring the strut shaft diameter and they screwed right on... smoothly I might add.
that would not suprise me at all, come to think of it, ive used about 4 differend sets (on sidekicks and gv's) and every set fit a little different that the other.... but i know this, if i ever have to change out a strut, they will be a bitch get get off lol
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ooohhhh, thats what your talking about, all ive ever done is use vice grips (lightly) on the shaft, but you also need to heat up the extension part first, they are somewhat of an interference fit, once they cool down after being installed they are tight.
I can't help but wonder, how many people have had premature strut failure due to tool marks on the rod destroying the seals.
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The vice grip marks would be at the very top of the shaft, very unlikely this part of the shaft would recede into the strut housing to even get close to the seals.
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The vice grip marks would be at the very top of the shaft, very unlikely this part of the shaft would recede into the strut housing to even get close to the seals.
Change would to should and I might agree with you - it all depends on where the person doing the install grabbed the shaft.