ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: ryan christensen on July 09, 2009, 06:02:11 PM
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Hello,
May be a stupid question, although I did search. What are the drawbacks to an automatic transmission in a off road vehicle? I really need this to commute, and I HATE manual transmissions in traffic. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Ry
p.s. I still haven't decided between a samurai or sidekick but these answers may help guide me.
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i run a auto in my off road tracker. I dont have any problems with it. only thing I can think of that a manual is better for it that once you pop the clutch you have the power to the wheels you dont have to deal with the torque converter and that. but like I said I like running a auto in mine. just seems easier to trail ride.
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The auto's main advantage is also it's main disadvantage... the torque converter. The torque converter actually gives you MORE torque when the vehicle is trying to move, or feels a lot of resistance (such as starting from a stop, or trying to maneuver over an obstacle). This is awesome if you like to crawl over things, but can be a bummer (as there's a little lag time between gear shifts) if you like to rally race. You can bump start a stick, but not an auto. I plan on carrying a spare starter (when I'm 100 miles from civilization) just in case. If you upgrade tire sizes, tow things, or generally "abuse" the torque converter, you MUST get a larger ATF cooler, or risk burning out the trans in short order. Auto transmissions tend to be more gentle on drivelines (especially u-joints, birfs, diff gears & axles), because the torque converter almost always eases the power on (even if only for a fraction of a second) instead of shock-loading as we sometimes do when dropping the clutch.
For what it's worth, I've wheeled in the Rubicon with an automatic, and I LOVED it. No more clutch / break / gas shuffle when stuck on a hill, or while trying to take difficult lines. No more worrying about slipping the clutch, or changing gears in bad spots - I just pick my lines, point the vehicle where I want it, and roll on the gas.
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The main disadvantage of an auto is putting it in first gear and crawling down hills. You can do it to a point, but not nearly as slow as with a manual.
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The main disadvantage of an auto is putting it in first gear and crawling down hills. You can do it to a point, but not nearly as slow as with a manual.
That's why they make t case low range gears!
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That's why they make t case low range gears!
I was referring to using the engine to slow down your decent with compression. On my SJ I can point it down a hill, throw it in first and let the vehicle do the work for stepping it down a slippery slope. The low gears combined with working against the engine means it crawls down hills, making slippery descents much easier.
If you had a way of locking your converter up for crawling down hills so the engine would have a 100% connection to your gears you could probably do it...
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I don't have problems with my auto & descents. It's not the same as a manual, but it's close enough that I've never really worried about it - just takes the occasional gentle tap on the break if the vehicle gets more speed than I'd like. But, the advantage really shines when going over obstacles or hill climbs. I drove the Rubicon with with 35" tires, and 4.88 gears (which made the vehicle act like it had 37" tires) and stock gearing. That's how amaizingly awesome torque converters are when you need more power. It acts like lower gearing.
And, speaking if lockout, I believe the 4-speed has one and the three speed does not ??? The 3 speed is mechanically shifted though (no ECU change required), and the 4-speed is electronically shifted (need to change the ECU). To avoid a ECU swap, you can use a Volvo 4-speed (same transmission manufacturer, bolt pattern & spline count) if you make sure it's a mechanically shifted model (doesn't have "e" on the end of the model # - which stands for electronic). You will need a Suzuki bell housing, as the volvo bell housing won't mount up on the engine side... unless you're also swapping in a volvo engine...
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Hey Ryan---I have very similar interest in Samarai vs.Sidekick---It's just that the Sidekick is so plain or ugly compared to the Samarai---I wonder has anyone ever put a Sidekick auto trans in a Samarai?---Also have any converted to coil springs on the Sam?---Thanks
Happy
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I had a Jeep Cherokee with an auto and it was great. Wheel samurais for over 10 years and love it but the auto was nice. Goind down hill was a little different but very managable.
If you swap in a tracker tranny in the samurai you have to keep in mind that it's geared higher so you'll need to gear down if you go to big tires.
Years ago I had a brake line break on a samurai while going up a hill....I turned at the top of the hill and came back down....I hadn't pressed the pedal until I was on the way down and that's when I found that the line was broken....with pedal to the floor the zuke screamed down the hill......an auto would have gained alot more speed ending it different.
If I had the money I'd swap in the auto and get the gears. The 1.6 would run nice. Swap in some toy axles at the same time and get the strength.
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Also have any converted to coil springs on the Sam?
There have been quite a few people, from 3 links to 4 links and probably a couple of 5 link systems. I just finished building one, I had it in the old Build Diaries section of the forum, I don't see it in the new one though.
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You can put the auto in a Samurai if you also install the 1.6L. be prepared to cut up or modify the tunnel. You'll probably also have to make some custom mounts. Tracker t-case has slip yokes, so you'll have to address that with your drive shafts.
Coils have been done on the Samurai, but it's not common.
Doing both will require a welder, and some metal fabrication skills... or $$$ to someone that can do the work for you. Would be a lot cheaper / easier to start with a Tracker w/ auto & coils to begin with.
*edit*
Did I mention the cup holders 8)
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*edit*
Did I mention the cup holders 8)
Only if you have the correct trim package. :D
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*edit*
Did I mention the cup holders 8)
Only if you have the correct trim package. :D
Or, plenty of good deals to be had on a Gen II TrackVit...with cupholders AND a 4-speed auto AND a bigger DOHC motor (OR a V-6 in a four door)...and my auto CRAWLS w/ the 4.24:1 t-case gears. Oh, and bigger trans cooler is a MUST.
Sorry. Shameless Gen II plug. >:D
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Also have any converted to coil springs on the Sam?---Thanks
Happy
I believe it was Drone that made his own custom 4-link rear coil spring suspension in his Samurai, and it looked damn good. I think it was in the build diaries section at the top of the Suzuki forum page
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Also have any converted to coil springs on the Sam?---Thanks
Happy
I believe it was Drone that made his own custom 4-link rear coil spring suspension in his Samurai, and it looked damn good. I think it was in the build diaries section at the top of the Suzuki forum page
Thanks for the compliment. :)
It's back up on the forum again. I think my browser was acting wonky when I was looking for it before.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=24382.0
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I read the whole thing, looks awesome man. You and BRD HNTR do some darn good work. I like his Samurai rear to IFS...great idea, high availability of parts, just a lot of ??? guesswork, but if you have the brains and the equipment, GO FOR IT, nothing is better than ingenuity ;D
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I just wish I could copy someone's Tracker build that looks 1/2 as good as drone's
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I just wish I could copy someone's Tracker build that looks 1/2 as good as drone's
Drone's SJ or BRD HNTR's Tracker? I didn't know Drone had a tracker
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I just wish I could copy someone's Tracker build that looks 1/2 as good as drone's
Drone's SJ or BRD HNTR's Tracker? I didn't know Drone had a tracker
He is probably referring to the suspension on the SJ. I have a Tracker as my Daily Driver, so nothing fancy at all about it.
We spent at least a month on the weekends going over measurements for the suspension then just went for it, turned out pretty well. Eric built a nice little 4 link on the back of his race rig, we may end up doing something similar to BRD HNTR's Tracker once we are done with the 2.7 swap.
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Like I said, you guys are pretty handy. A 2.7L is out of a never GV or...?
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He is probably referring to the suspension on the SJ.
Yep - want the quality of Drone's work... done on a Tracker... so I can copy it.
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Like I said, you guys are pretty handy. A 2.7L is out of a never GV or...?
The 2.7 is out of a newer XL7. It will be interesting to see how much it changes with the Automatic instead of the manual.
Hey, we are sort of back on topic. How did that happen?
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Drone - like I said, my 2.7L w/ auto & Shogun doubler is due any day now. We'll have to stare and compare notes on our builds. I'm breaking a lot of new ground here!