ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: ryan christensen on July 12, 2009, 03:04:42 PM
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Hello,
I have watched and waited until the time when I could get a samurai (maybe 10 years). Aesthetically they are my favorite vehicle. I am interested in off-road as a hobby.
I test drove one a yesterday. Not being able to go over 55 will be problematic for me, but it is the cleanest original samurai I have seen in person.
I am not the kind of guy that is going to be taking wheeling to the extreme. I would like to do some medium difficulty trails, but nothing nuts. But I would also need to be able to operate comfortably on the highway.
So two questions here. Are First Gen Trackers any better? (steering, top speed, suspension) I would assume the Gen II Trackers are a lot better? (same)
I feel this way about the Tracker's appearance:
"I hated the looks of mine at first - the Samurai just has that "jeep" look that exudes testosterone. The 2-door kick does seem like more of a college girl car"(quoted from Jeremiah,)
But he goes on to say this:
"but the looks of the kick have grown on me."
Have you all found that to be the case?
-Ry
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If the sami your drove would only do 55 something might be wrong. I can run 55 easy, and I live at 5,000ft. On flat ground no wind I can run 75mph with 235/75 tires. But as a highway driver, a tracker might be better. More power, and you could throw on some coil spacers for cheap and fit a decent size tire and it will be able to do a lot.
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Any gen. Track/Kick will be better suited for a higher top speed and a more comfortable ride than a Sammy. (Stock for stock, of course.) The Track/Kick's are a bit more plush with "creature comforts". I don't think there is a HUGE difference at all between gen. 1 and 2 Track/Kicks.
I owned a lwb Tracker before I bought my Sammy. It (the Tracker) is better suited for my 2 kids, wife, dog and camping gear than the Sammy.
I definitely feel that they both have their place among the Suzuki community, which is why I own both! :D
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I'll tell you what, I have a gen II 2000 4 door, bone stock, 2.0 5 speed. it is a great commuter and the few I've seen lifted look good. At the same time, It's been 17 years since I drove a Sammy and I wanted one in the worst way, still do, loved just bouncing around in the thing, and the light, go anywhere feeling you get. Too bad you can't have both.
The old cliche' oportunity only knocks once, if this Sammy is clean, and in really nice shape, how many more will you come accross? I'd buy it. Just my .02
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i got to drive a samurai that a friend's sister needed some emission work done on, fully stock on some a/t's got to take it to a dirt lot and play with it while we had it for the day, i fell in love.
they are a great 4wd. i tried to find one of my own a year later when i decided to go away from my little turbo hatchback i had.
i couldnt find anything in my price range, all of the ones i found were rusted out or out of my price range. i looked at the sidekick in the same way, they dont have the rugged look of the samurai, they are more of a girly look to them stock.
i ended up finding one locally in my price range that was lifted up 3.5" on some 31" mudders, bush bar, offroad lights, and such. took it for a spin and loved it. more power then the samurai, more room, less road noise (even with the mud tires).
i would have bought it right then, but it had rust issues and wouldnt have been a good commuter vehicle.
i ended up buying another one i found that was completely stock, had a hardtop, was lower km's and very little rust.
drove it stock for half a year, commuting and trail running on the weekends, had it at stave lake (big mud pit) but mostly ran it down the trails in the okanogan, lots of dirt, large hill climbs, and a little bit of mud. even did some snow wheelin.
then it got some 235/75r15's (big improvement in the look department, makes it much less girly)
also gave it some better handling, gave it some more height as well.
with some coil spacers, and a locker they go anywhere.
the sidekick is a better truck if its going to be highway driven, the samurai is not made to do highway speeds for any extended time. the sidekick wont flex out like the samurai will when out in the rocks after being lifted just because of the suspension design. but if someone was to match a stock samurai for a stock sidekick they come up fairly even in the dirt and mud. with cheap mods the sidekick gets better, the samurai gets better with more money as it isnt as simple as coil spacers.
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For "mild" wheeling, you'll be good to go with 29" tires in either vehicle. After owning 3 samurais, and 3 trackers, I prefer the tracker. It's better in virtually every way:
* Power (Samurai = 60HP, tracker is 80 in 8v or 96HP in 16v)
* MPG (by a good 5 MPG)
* Cargo space
* Less road noise
* Superior suspension (coil)
* Modern goodies (cup holders, auto, A/C, etc)
* They're newer, so generally fewer miles
* Cheaper (Samurais are getting rare, and the prices are going up)
Samurai wins:
* Aftermarket support (but that's changing. Most aftermarket venders are spending most their R&D on kicks now)
* Anything you can think of doing - someone's already done, so all upgrades are documented already
* I think they win esthetically
Drive both, and pick whichever you prefer... but it's no accident the most popular upgrades to the samurai are just robing parts from the tracker... buying a tracker in the first place saves a lot of trouble and $$$. I've got a great Samurai on 31" tires that I haven't driven in almost a year... if that tells you anything.
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I loved my 86 samurai and didn't like the looks at all of the sidekicks. When my family started to grow and the want for a better daily driver came, I bit the towel and sold the sami to upgrade to the 4door kick. I still do occasionally miss the samurai, but, my budget build sidekick is far better than the samurai ever was for my needs. The looks have defiantly grown on me and I like its style. I don't think mine looks girly, rather a spit in your eye attractiveness.
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I really appreciate the feedback. I am not going to buy a Samurai :'(. I am glad I didn't get the: "USE THE SEARCH BUTTON D-BAG" thing.
If the GEN 1 trackers are that much better, how about the Gen 2 Trackers? I don't see many builds on here (I would like to see a second gen tracker thread somewhere if anyone knows about one. ) and I am really curious about how they look built up. I do not like the body style even as much as the gen I tracker, but I can purchase a genII for like 3500 that feels like a new car inside. They just kinda lack that extreme look or something, and I dislike the geometry of the hood/headlight area, as well as the rear quarter panels. I have also read that the wheel wells are small and cause problems.
Thoughts?
-Ry
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There's a whole section on it: http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0 (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0)
With second gen, you get all the refinements you'd expect from a new generation:
* More room
* More power
* More refined interior
The front diffs of some have a design flaw that causes them to quit working (some kind of air leak). They also have rack & pinion steering... good for the street, not as good for off road. As long as you don't beat it up off wheeling, or get massive tires, R&P should be a non-issue.
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Holy Hell I am stupid. I was digging in the wrong section. I should get flamed with the "use the search function".
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Holy Hell I am stupid. I was digging in the wrong section. I should get flamed with the "use the search function".
Use the search
Use the search
Use the search
Use the search
Use the search
Use the search
Use the search
Use the search
Use the search
Use the search
Use the search
Feel better? :D
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There are far fewer second gen 2door builds. Is this because they are newer and more expensive, or because they lack bolt on modifications and extreme off road capability?
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A little of both. As vehicles (like the tracker) get less and less expensive (older) people can afford to purchase & modify them. Suzuki owners tend to have less discressionary spending than guys that own higher dollar toys (Jeeps). And I also believe fewer 2nd gens were sold, as those particular years it was more popular in our culture to own bigger gas guzzlers (I can't verify this, it's just a theory).
As the price comes down, more of us will be able to afford them, and therefore more modifications / aftermarket support will be there. Fortunately, for "mild wheeling" the mods are there (lockers, mild lift kits etc). In fact - with just a set of good tires, and a locker you can probably do all the wheeling you want without any other mods.
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not sure of the type of terrain that you've got there but around here a set of tires will get you alot of places. You won't follow in the bad trails but if you are just going to do some mild wheeling then you are good to go with a tracker and tires. Lock the rear and install a 2" lift and then you'll find it almost unstopable.
I've wheeled with a lot of 4x4's and always came back to the samurai....now I've got a stock LJ80 and with tires it will follow almost everything.
Samurai's are alot easier to lift and I find work on but trackers will follow traffic and has alot more room. I've been running zukes for over 10 years and if you are driving a stock zuke you should be able to get to and keep the highway speed. They use alot of fuel trying to keep up and if there is a wind or hill then you might have a hard time.
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There are far fewer second gen 2door builds. Is this because they are newer and more expensive, or because they lack bolt on modifications and extreme off road capability?
Love my Gen II 2-door. Bought it over five years ago for $5k. Mods are available. Hang out in the Gen II forum for a little while and you'll see plenty. Most 2 doors came w/ a 130 hp DOHC 2.0. And it's never failed to impress me w/ its off-road capability. Check out the picture thread on the other board, and see what we've built.
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Cool rig, man 8)
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Dang you guys make me miss my '94 kick I just sold >:( Blown engine was too much to fix, so Im getting a new car instead... man I would have LOVED to try that thing in some mud... didn't have time >:( Should've tried selling it for more, since it was in almost perfect shape. Oh well.
Here are some pics of it - it was bone stock except for the painted interior parts, but you can't say that thing doesn't look good... Might have a tiny bit of girly look, but it's nothing a nice set of oversized A/T tires can't do (I was running on stock 205/75R15, was planning to move to 235/75R15 when I had the chance, along with painting the wheels... didn'T have the luck :() And don'T mind the stuff in the car, I was going to my gf's home for a week and needed my watercooled computer for school :laugh:
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Samurai's are alot easier to lift and I find work on but trackers
Depends on the lift. The spring spacers & spring swaps in a tracker can be done in a few hours with basic hand tools.
*edit*
Some more info here: http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=25645.0 (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=25645.0)
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I loved my old sammi. Was really easy to work on an what not. hard to find sammi parts like axles an trannys an what not which is why my old one went to the bone yard. My old sammi with 32x10.5x15 would only do bout 55 but it was alright dont need to go much faster than that anyway. trackers def are more spaciouce. an the solid targa top is cool. I loved my sammi so much i just bought a new one so. i guess to each there own.my votes for the sammi
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That's the big debate between Tracker & Samurai... gearing. It's the Tracker's Achilles Heel of the tracker. For $500 (give or take), it's EASY to correct Samurai gearing. It's probably the largest & most misunderstood advantage of the Samurai.
The Samurai T-case is unique in that it allows gear sets that change both the hi-range (for street use) and low range (for off road) reduction. The only other way to do this is in the diff gears (which is what Jeeps / Toyotas etc use).
Trackers don't have any easy gearing options to handle hi range. You can run a 3-speed auto with 4-speed auto / 5-speed stick diff gears, and be re-geared for 31" tires... but... then you're stuck using a 3-speed (no overdrive). You can swap to Toyota axles (allowing the use of toyota diff gears), but that's complicated for most people... and generally it's just the jump from 5.125:1 (most trackers) to 5.71 (not a big jump). You can run a samurai t-case behind the tracker t-case, and have all the advantages of a Samurai t-case... but that's expensive, and you're looking at running 35"+ tires.
So - I generally recommend Samurais for people running 31-33" tires, and trackers for running 27-31" or 35"+