ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: djlantis57 on July 13, 2009, 12:23:09 PM
-
I looked into Evil Twin for Samurais and like the concept. I read the article about RRO's 2wheel low kit. But couldn't find it on their website.
I want to flat tow my Tracker, so the "true" neutral concept is interesting. And 2wheel low would be very useful too...
INPUT? OPINIONS?
Cause I can't find much more info and products for a Tracker/Sidekick
-
I'm not sure there is a twin stick kit for the Trackers.
For towing you don't have to disconnect the rear driveshaft, according to the manual normal neutral is fine. They do recommend that you have manual hubs though so you can leave the front wheels in the unlocked mode.
The reason to put the Samurai in a true neutral when towing was an oiling issue. For normal flat towing a Sammy they recommend you stop every 200 miles and running the engine in 1st gear with the transfer case still in neutral for 5 minutes or so to re-oil the transfer case.
-
The reason to put the Samurai in a true neutral when towing was an oiling issue. For normal flat towing a Sammy they recommend you stop every 200 miles and running the engine in 1st gear with the transfer case still in neutral for 5 minutes or so to re-oil the transfer case.
Unless I'm very much mistaken the recommendation for flat towing a Tracker is very similar - I know it is for the Grand Vitara.
-
I use to flat tow my tracker I just put the tcase in neutral and away I went never had any problems with it.
-
I have flat towed our Tracker for over 40,000 miles. The real problem I have found flat towing the Tracker is when the transfer case is in neutral it is in 4 wheel drive neutral meaning if the rear dif is turning then the front diff is also turning even if the hubs are free wheeling. This resulted in several worn out CV boots with our lifted Tracker until I made my own twin stick shifter. Now I can put the transfer case in 2 wheel drive neutral and I just got back from a 6,000 mile trip to Moab UT and Colorado flat towing the Tracker and the CV boots are in fine condition.
I also really liked being able to use 2 wheel drive low range in some trails this summer. It is a nice option when wheeling.
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0058.jpg)
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0057.jpg)
(In the past people have argued with me about the 4 wheel drive neutral causing the front axles to turn when towing. If you don't believe me go out to your Tracker put the transfer case in neutral, crawl under your Tracker and try to turn the front drive shaft. You can't because it is linked to the rear driveshaft inside the transfer case.)
-
Anyone know how to get the RRO 2Wheel Low kit like the article describes?
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_120103/feature_rro2wdlowkit.htm
Yeah the owner's manual states to flat tow with:
TRANS-2ND
T-CASE-NEUTRAL
Holy hell Skitime that looks amazing!!! How did you do that?
-
I have a twinstick in mine ;D
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=18291.0
-
Anyone know how to get the RRO 2Wheel Low kit like the article describes?
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/month_120103/feature_rro2wdlowkit.htm[/url]
Yeah the owner's manual states to flat tow with:
TRANS-2ND
T-CASE-NEUTRAL
Holy hell Skitime that looks amazing!!! How did you do that?
I adapted a Toyota twin stick setup. I developed the adapter and a CAD drawing for Front Range, hoping would sell them but he has not made any yet. http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=36&osCsid=75a585f8f3ec9926789adcba46a46fff
If you really want to have 2 wheel drive neutral the easy way is to disassemble your tranfer case, remove one dedent ball between the shift rails and then use a angle grinder to cut one new cutout on the left rail. I was going to go that way but decided to develop the twin stick.
-
Yes that looks quite amazing and I like how it comes right out of the factory shifter boot opening. Damn I'm gonna have to ask for pictures later on down the road if that's the way I decide to do it, cause nobody else offeres anything that comes close
-
I use low range in 2 wheel drive all the time in my stock Tracker, when I don't feel like getting out to lock the hubs on a short tricky hill or something. Works fine as long as you don't thrash it.
I also had a Ford Bronco 2 break a universal on the rear driveshaft...so I locked the hubs and drove in 4wd(essentially front wheel drive) for about 2 months. =)
-
I used the Dana twinstick boot in conjunction with the standard boot. Apart from Stan (37kicker), Rock4xfabrication (rockrat) also offers a twinstick for a Kick too.
This in mine.
(http://www.zuwharrie.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11304/DSC00063.JPG)
-
man I would love to have a twin stick or the 2wd low kit. anyone have a write up on how to do it or anything?
-
I'm not sure there is a twin stick kit for the Trackers.
Yes, Virginia, there IS a Tracker TwinStick!
Although it is not on the site, a Tracker Twinstick is in production!
http://www.rock4xfabrication.com/ (http://www.rock4xfabrication.com/)
email or call Scott.
-
I PM'ed Stan (37Kicker). Has anyone installed his or Rock4x (rockrat)'s twin stick? I'm wondering how complicated it might be. The case has to be split, so I might either do it now with the 4.24 kit or wait another year or so. Haven't even tried driving it yet so I don't even know what the 1.82 feels like!
-
Visiting with rockrat at the 'melt this last weekend, he indicated that his unit does not require the buyer to weld the shifter arms on before installation. I understand that welding may be necessary with the Evil Twin units.
-
Hmmm I'm pursuing my options.
BTW like the new logo Ack
-
I PM'ed Stan (37Kicker). Has anyone installed his or Rock4x (rockrat)'s twin stick? I'm wondering how complicated it might be. The case has to be split, so I might either do it now with the 4.24 kit or wait another year or so. Haven't even tried driving it yet so I don't even know what the 1.82 feels like!
I have Stans in my Liberty Overland Tracker. IT works great. Stan does not get on here much, but I am sure he will give you a shout when he does visit.
Zig
-
Hmmm I'm pursuing my options.
BTW like the new logo Ack
Thanks.
I am thinking of changing it a bit. Only two people have figured out what I am getting at with it so far.
I guess I'm too subtle.
-
Hmmm I'm pursuing my options.
BTW like the new logo Ack
Thanks.
I am thinking of changing it a bit. Only two people have figured out what I am getting at with it so far.
I guess I'm too subtle.
I said I liked it, but I don't get it either...help me out here
-
I said I liked it, but I don't get it either...help me out here
I'm guessing funding - costs money to host a website.
-
How about the fact that is is brought to you by the customers of said estabilishment. aka, people who eat Domino's and Pizza Hut.
That is what my guess was. :)
-
Hahaha I thought that too, because they're open late...and some of us do those "all nighter" projects and crave a pizza at midnight!
-
I said I liked it, but I don't get it either...help me out here
I'm guessing funding - costs money to host a website.
DING-DING-DING-DING!
We have a Winner!
The extra money that I make delivering pizzas for these companies is used - among other things - to cover the $45 per month server use charges. So far I have received two $5.00 donations (via the paypal button on the home page) because of this signature avatar.
...but I digress.
I remember something noteworthy in my conversation with RockRat:
The TracKick "twinstick" does not function like the a classic twinstick. One lever ony does 2wd/4wd. The other controls hi/low range. It's sort of a sophisiticated version of the old Samurai shift pattern mod where you end up with the addition of 2wd hi/low
I have a NP205 that I am gonna twinstick for a project. Doing the twinstick mod on it allows the t-case to independently operate the front or rear axle for front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, 4wd, all in either high or low range. This means that I could do front digs with the twinsticked NP 205 tcase. Such would not be the case with a TracKick twinstick.
-
so how do i do a twin stick in my tracker or how do i at least modify it so i have the 2wd low range?
-
Sounds interesting Ack!!! Front wheel drive only eh? I wouldn't need to independently operate front/rear axles...just what you said about 2hi/2low and 4hi/4low on two different sticks. Also to obtain a true neutral position too for towing
-
so how do i do a twin stick in my tracker or how do i at least modify it so i have the 2wd low range?
At this point, the easiest way is to buy a Tracker Twinstick from Rock4x Fabrication (http://www.rock4xfabrication.com/ (http://www.rock4xfabrication.com/))
I do not know for sure if the Evil Twin (http://www.zukeviltwin.com/content2.html (http://www.zukeviltwin.com/content2.html)) folks have a Tracker version.
I don't know of an article that specifically deals with modding the TracKick t-case shifting linkage to get 2wd low. Then again, I don't hang out at Pirate.. The shifter design is different from the Samurai t-case shifter so you can't easily adapt from Samurai 2wd low mod articles... :(
-
Sounds interesting Ack!!! Front wheel drive only eh? I wouldn't need to independently operate front/rear axles...just what you said about 2hi/2low and 4hi/4low on two different sticks. Also to obtain a true neutral position too for towing
One thing that I forgot to mention...
If you are thinking of using an NP205 t-case in a Samurai, consider this:
You need a divorced (not connected to the transmission) passenger drop version - which I am not sure even exists. I have a divorced drivers side drop out of an older Ford F250. You can get a passenger side drop unit but you'd have to fab some sort adapter to attach the t-case to the transmission.
Oh, and a NP205 weighs in at 140 pounds... :o
...and no, my build project does not involve a Samurai... ;D
-
this is what i'm talking about for the conversion. but I think the twin stick would be easier since I think all you have to do is bolt it on to the top but i could be wrong.
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_120103/feature_rro2wdlowkit.htm
-
this is what i'm talking about for the conversion. but I think the twin stick would be easier since I think all you have to do is bolt it on to the top but i could be wrong.
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/month_120103/feature_rro2wdlowkit.htm[/url]
I saw that kit but that and the twin stick require you to drop the case and split it anyway, so I'm holding off until (if and when) I decide to upgrade 4.24 gears
-
Skitime, what is your twin stick in? I need to find a Transfer case shift for a 05 XL7 case, and thought that I had read yours is in a Gen II rig, so I would be very interested in the production or fabrication of it. Have you had the issues of oil leakage that the other home built conversions are experiencing? Is it the design, or do those boots stop the leakage? Was the Dana 300 conversion that hard? (Using a CAD program raises the level a few notches above those of us that just think it is worth a try.)
Hope that is not too many questions at once, but trying to get as much information as possible before I start my swap to XL7 drive train.
-
Skitime, what is your twin stick in? I need to find a Transfer case shift for a 05 XL7 case, and thought that I had read yours is in a Gen II rig, so I would be very interested in the production or fabrication of it. Have you had the issues of oil leakage that the other home built conversions are experiencing? Is it the design, or do those boots stop the leakage? Was the Dana 300 conversion that hard? (Using a CAD program raises the level a few notches above those of us that just think it is worth a try.)
Hope that is not too many questions at once, but trying to get as much information as possible before I start my swap to XL7 drive train.
Mine twin shifter was for my 97 Geo Tracker. I adapted the twin shifter for a Toyota to the Tracker transfer case. I have had it in for a few months with no oil leaks including a month of offroading in Moab UT and the San Juan mountains of CO. I designed the piece on the bottom in CAD then made it on a milling machine.
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0043.jpg)
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0045.jpg)
I am not familiar with the XL7 drivetrain to give any advice concerning it. Sorry.
-
The shift housing is very different, but looking inside it seems much like my 93. Thanks for the reply. This is something I will keep an eye on. There is so much to build/install out there now, It seems hard to not want to make it better. Thanks for sharing your conversion.
-
this is what i'm talking about for the conversion. but I think the twin stick would be easier since I think all you have to do is bolt it on to the top but i could be wrong.
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/month_120103/feature_rro2wdlowkit.htm[/url]
I saw that kit but that and the twin stick require you to drop the case and split it anyway, so I'm holding off until (if and when) I decide to upgrade 4.24 gears
yeah i really like the 4.24:1 kit its pretty easy to install. just be careful when you grind out the case for clearance for the gears. there isnt much material there but its not to bad.
-
I have Stan's twin stick set up, Literally. I bought his actual transfer case with low range gears and twin stick aready installed. It works great, and I love it. Two wheel low, and simple in and out . You'd be lucky to get one from him if you can. If not, Rockrat's is a well built too, and he makes a lower seal/boot set that's really well done. Skitime's is just flat sweet. That machined housing is quite nice.
-
so anyone know where i can buy a twin stick for my tracker?
-
well I decided to see if I could modify the shift fork shaft that switches it from 2wd to 4wd today. So I think I have it figured out and its made just have to get it installed in my tcase and in the tracker. Luckly I have an extra tcase for parts so I was able to modify that one so if it doesnt work then i can just replace it. so anyways what i did was took the tcase all apart and took the shift fork shaft out that controls 2wd to 4wd and cut and ground out the slot so its longer and then took the detent ball out that is in between the two shafts its right where the other two detent balls are but in between the shafts. there is a rubber plug on the side of the tcase for that ball but it will fall out when you take the shafts out anyways. so here is a few pics of the shaft that I modified.
-
so by what I can tell it works but still has to be trail tested. it kinda works like a twin stick. But if its in a certain spot then it wont move over to the 2wd 4wd side but all i have to do is shift the hi low side then move to the 2wd 4wd side and select what i want then it will slide to the hi low side. but like I said have to trail test it first and see what i can do to modify it to work better.
-
Let me share here what I had designed for a single transfer shifter before I moved onto the twin stick design. I shared it on the English Suzuki forum a long time ago. In England the Tracker is a Vitara and is called the Vit for short.
The subject of 2WD in low range was touched on in another thread called "More from Mike Hagan (and others) ". In that thread there was this post.
I spend 98% of my time in 2WD while green lane driving with my m8 and it would be great to be able to do it in low ratio :mrgreen: How does one go about achieving this then :?: Is it a big, medium or small job :?: :)
Mr Watt :?: :)
I think it is important enough to have its own thread. I have learned a lot on this subject in a roundabout way. As some of you know I tow my Vit thousands of miles behind our motorhome each year in a search of awesome offroading. Twice when I got home from a month of fun, I found I had worn out CV axle boots. Since they were new I did not understand why. This past fall I added crawler gears in my transfer case. While I had it apart I found out something I did not realize. When I towed my Vit behind the motorhome with the transfer case in neutral the front axles still turn. So with the suspension lift I had the strong CV angles caused the CV boots to prematurely wear out. So I started looking for a solution to prevent this. When the transfer case is in neutral it is in what I call 4WD Neutral. So I needed to come up with a way to have 2WD Neutral. Well this whole concept turned into a lot of research and a twin stick transfer shifter kit that I developed. The twin shifter kit for the Vit is still not ready for sale and will probably sell for around $200 US if all goes well. I have a working prototype but I am waiting for my partner to produce a part in CNC from my CAD drawings. Here is the shifter loosely fitted for a pic. The twin boot in the front of the transfer case is the boot for the interior and is not used at that location.
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0003.jpg)
Before I describe how you can modify your tranfer case let me explain why offroaders want to be able to have 2WD low range. If you are using any locker in the front differential other than the air ARB locker the locker causes a real problem. Since with a locker both wheel attempt to turn at the same speed it becomes real hard to turn the steering wheel with the hubs locked. It feels like the steering wheel is locked straight ahead with the front diff locker and you really have to strong arm the steering wheel to make a turn. So in this situation it would be great to be able to stay in low range but disconnect the front differential. Without a modification you have two choices. Unlock one hub or put it into 2WD high range so you can turn easily. A twin transfer shifter simply allows you to shift the transfer case into 2WD low range from your seat. It is simple and quick. A modified shifter rails will also let you do the same thing but you need to move your shifter around a little more but still an excellent modification and cheap if you do it yourself.
There were some 2WD drive kits from Rocky Road and others. The last I enquired nobody was currently selling these kits. It might of changed by now, I am not sure. These kits consist of replacement shift rails for your transfer case. I have spent a lot of time figuring out this method before moving onto the twin shifter design. But you can fairly easily make these modified shifter rails yourself like the post from Mr. Watt shown above is asking about. So let me share how you do this shift rail modification. I must apologize because I cannot find my drawing of this mod so I will attempt to describe it. There are two shifter rails in the transfer case. The one on the right is to shift from High to Neutral to Low. The one on the left is to shift from 2 wheel drive to 4 wheel drive. There is a ball between these rails that only allows one rail being able to be moved at a time. This ball has to be removed to do this mod. To remove the ball, you have to remove only one of the rails and I would suggest the H-N-L rail since this is the rail I would then modify. If you reassemble the rails without the interlock ball in place you can manually move the rails forward and backward. It you move the left rail into 2WD and the right rail into the low range position you have the location you need to mark the left rail for a new notch.
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0008.jpg)
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0007.jpg)
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0011.jpg)
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0012.jpg)
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0013.jpg)
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/skitime_photo/Twin%20Stick%20Shifter/DSC_0015.jpg)
So basically you grind a new notch into the 2WD/4WD shift rail. Now let me explain why I did not do this mod. Remember I needed 2WD neutral more than 2WD Low Range. This mod would not get me there. I had come up with other notch designs that would of allowed this but it got complicated and but that time I was onto designing the twin shifter. Anyway hope this helps explain the mod and I hope I have all the pics in the correct order and correct description.
-
cool its kinda what i did but I didnt make it so there was two notches just one notch it works when i put it back together but its not in the tracker so I cant tell if it will work when its running. will get that done wednesday and test it this weekend. good thing i have two tcase and spare parts.
-
I just took 2 stock shifters and hacked them up, put a pin thru the middle so
they pivot right and rounded the ball portion from the oval you get with the
2 hacked bits, then welded the levers on and presto, twin sticks, they work
great
Wild