ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: ben256 on July 14, 2009, 04:43:34 PM
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I've got a 1995 16 valve sidekick and am wanting a cold air intake for it. The only place I've found so far is calmini but they only carry intakes for the 8 valve model. Does anyone know where i could find one for mine?
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takethe stock air box out and cut all 4 sides out of the bottom part.
put a drop in K&N filter.
re-install.
cold air intake.
Remember, the engine bay is very open and spacy. And the hood on our truck doesn't seal tight. Plenty of cold ir gets in there.
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What you have is a Cold Air Intake. When you install anything that has the intake port in the engine bay, it becomes a warm air intake.
*gasp*
Seriously.
However, the intake piping is so inefficient (small & lots of turns), a short ram intake (even sucking in warmer air charge) makes the breathing more efficient. Some good intake discussion here:
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=24609.0 (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=24609.0)
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I put a random short ram intake on my tracker for a while.....it sounded cool...but murdered my throttle response. Seriously....if I dove on the throttle...it would wait....wait....wait....then whoooosh! and it would suck in gallons and gallons of warm air. =)
I get much quicker response in the pedal with the stock box and all the stock piping removed. Now it sucks in air from between the engine bay and the backside of the fender. Perfect I think. My only real problem now is deep water crossings, but that isn't the issue here(*staying on topic*).
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contrary to belief
theres nothing wrong with an intake taking in warm air
it actually might help your fuel economy
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Cold air is preferred - but if it takes too many twists & turns to get to that cold air - it could perform more harm than good. Which is exactly what happens with the stock Suzuki setup. The stock Suzuki setup is also quiet, and helps keep water out during high water crossings. The nice thing about the "poor man's mod" is that it doesn't cost anything, and it's 100% reversible in just a few minutes if you don't like it.
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cold air is preferred for power gains
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k thanks guys, im checking ou that poor mans mod
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contrary to belief
theres nothing wrong with an intake taking in warm air
it actually might help your fuel economy
Any chance you have facts to back up this opinion?
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If warm air was so good for an engine, why do OME's go to all the trouble to draw air from outside the engine compartment? Why do turbocharged systems use intercoolers? Because colder air is denser, therfor you can pack more in, and colder air is less prone to detonation and pre ignition. Also I have what I consider is a TRUE cold air intake: a Snorkle system. For clean "cold" air, look at a snorkle.
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Other than for outright power it makes little difference, the fuelling is corrected for intake air temperature. If you want to know what works or doesn't then get a scan tool, the ECU reports intake air temperature.
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Other than for outright power it makes little difference, the fuelling is corrected for intake air temperature.
We're counting on that. Colder air charge = more dense air. That means more volume of air in the same sized chamber (cylinder). We want the ECU to add more fuel to keep the Air / Fuel ratio optimum (which is why the ECU reads the temp of the air intake charge). The more A/F charge you can squeeze in, the more power is produced during combustion.
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We're counting on that. Colder air charge = more dense air. That means more volume of air in the same sized chamber (cylinder). We want the ECU to add more fuel to keep the Air / Fuel ratio optimum (which is why the ECU reads the temp of the air intake charge). The more A/F charge you can squeeze in, the more power is produced during combustion.
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I understand that, I've even designed my own ECU. This is the sort of job where a scanner comes in very useful. A dyno is not representive because it cannot replicate the aiflow through the engine bay, a scan tool can monitor intake air temperature so you can experiment to get the best setup. You can also check the restriction of the intake by comparing the MAP reading (8V) at WOT with atmospheric. Power is directly proportional to air temperature in degrees Kelvin (from absolute zero) so power gains are easily calculated.
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You are making it sound like cold or warm air make a difference. Do any of you own a sidekick or tracker? You all should know better. There are 2 huge vents on either side of the hood, The entire hood simply just sits on the fenders...no seal at all, and lastly the engine bay is bigger than the 1.6 that sits in it.
There is PLENTY of cold air getting in there. You don't need a cold air intake, the eintire under hood of the car is filled with air as you drive. Just cut out the sides of your lower air box and drop in a K&N filter and it's ALL you need. This mod will keep it dry in rain/snow and still yeild the results you want. The engine bay IS NOT sealed so it doesn't matter. Now if we were talking about 90% of any other car that the hood seals when closed, therefore trapping hot air under the hood. The debate over warm air vs. cold air would matter. The Track kicks don't have this problem...so the debate is moot.
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You are miking it sound like cold or warm air make a difference. Do you own a sidekick or tracker?
Do you mean me? then yes I do, I own a 2000 8V Vitara which is a first gen, same as a Track/Kick but with a more advanced ECU. I run a Safari snorkel, cutting out the airbox isn't practical in the UK because we do a lot of wading. Personally I suspect that you'd get more of an improvement from a good service. I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just saying that its possible to quantify the results using a scan tool. My own vehicle has the factory bonnet scoop so I get plenty of cold air in there.
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No, not you at all...just in general. this debate of whether cold air or warm air make a difference, has nothing to do with an intake for the trackkicks. Of course cold air is better, but the under hoods of our trucks are drafty as all hell and tons of cold air circulates through it. Trust me it doesn't get remotely hot enough under the hood of a trackkick to justify needing a "cold air" intake. I'm not picking out any one member, I just think it's silly to debate it when the rules don't apply to our vehicles.
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Do you mean me? then yes I do, I own a 2000 8V Vitara which is a first gen, same as a Track/Kick but with a more advanced ECU. I run a Safari snorkel, cutting out the airbox isn't practical in the UK because we do a lot of wading. Personally I suspect that you'd get more of an improvement from a good service. I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just saying that its possible to quantify the results using a scan tool. My own vehicle has the factory bonnet scoop so I get plenty of cold air in there.
A snorkel should count as a cold air intake - it's allowing the engine to pull colder air in rather than warm underhood air.
Rhinoman you've got the technology to put some numbers here - what's the IAT with a snorkel as compared to without?
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No, not you at all...just in general. this debate of whether cold air or warm air make a difference, has nothing to do with an intake for the trackkicks. Of course cold air is better, but the under hoods of our trucks are drafty as all hell and tons of cold air circulates through it. Trust me it doesn't get remotely hot enough under the hood of a trackkick to justify needing a "cold air" intake. I'm not picking out any one member, I just think it's silly to debate it when the rules don't apply to our vehicles.
I would not agree with Jookycola that it is a silly discussion and under-hood temps can get very high causing high input air temps. . I have Scanguage II that I use in all of my vehicles. http://www.scangauge.com/ This gauge allows me to monitor input air temps in real time using the data the ECU is getting. This highest temps by far in all my vehicles is in my Tracker. I have a stock air intake with a K&N filter. The other vehicles include a 8.1 liter V8 motorhome that tows the Tracker and a supercharged inter-cooled Mercedes. Now the highest temps I read on the Tracker was during a extremely long and steep climb up a 13,000 foot mountain in Colorado. The long hard climb in very slow low range speeds had input air temps also climbing and this was in cool outside temps. I turned on the AC to get the condenser fan running to increase air flow.
Seems some people do not realize the air in a factory system is not pulled from under the hood and is in fact a cold air intake system however the under-hood heat can transfer into your intake as in my example. In my opinion it is just silly to think you are creating a "ricer cold air intake" with a large air filter just mounted under the hood.
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True your point allpies to factory airbox with drop in K&N. But mine is open on all four sides, and still retains the stock tubing from the fender meant to bring in cold air. i see my hood vibrate as i drive down the highway, i refuse to believe that cold air is not being jammed under that hood into the engine bay.
> There is no insulation behind the head lights,
> there is tons of space around the grille,
> There is at least 10 inches if not a foot of open space between the air box and motor...i look down and see the ground under the car in between that space. Don't tell me air is not shooting up through there.
> The hood does not seal air tight so plenty of air is being drafted in there.
> the open "slots" on either side of the hood i'm sure takes in plenty of air.
Point is, it may be warm in there idleing, but once you get moving cool air flushes through there rather freely from many sources so the point of it being too warm under the track kicks hood to make a difference is hog wash.
And technically a cold air intake sucks air from the lowest point. Heat rises so the cooler air is ground level. Hence why all cold air units usually snake down the fender of a car to a low point behind the bumper. So a snorkel is technically NOT a cold air intake, it's more along the lines of a Ram-Air unit. I've been an import tuner for years i could go all day about cold air intakes.
But long story short, the mod i did to my track kick is all any average person should ever need to achive improved fuel economy, cooler sounding exhuast note, and very mild if any at all power boost.
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Cold air intakes will produce more power, and will save gas if the engine operates only at Wide Open Throttle.
However, under 90% of driving, Warm Air Intakes are more efficient because the engine is throttled and under less than full load. It will not work on all cars. WAI does two things:
1) Fuel evaporates more quickly, increasing combustion speed. Fast burn engines improves the amount of pressure generated and expansion work available for a given amount of fuel.
2) With oxygen sensors, engines run at stoichiometric air/fuel ratios. For any given amount of fuel, a corresponding mass of oxygen is admitted. WAI lowers the density of air, meaning that a higher volume of air must be let into the engine for a given fuel input. So with WAI, the throttle must be opened further for a given output, and this lowers the "pumping" work of pulling air past the throttle.
Your father ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader...
So what Ive told you is true... from a different point of view
8)
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A snorkel should count as a cold air intake - it's allowing the engine to pull colder air in rather than warm underhood air.
Rhinoman you've got the technology to put some numbers here - what's the IAT with a snorkel as compared to without?
I'll check mine when I get it inspected, I'm going to look at reworking the whole intake with a bored out throttle body.
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If you guys don't think it gets hot under the hood of a Trackick, just open it after a long high speed freeway slog. ( Or a paticularly long steep climb like skitime described) I can't remember what mine was like before turbocharging, it's been a while, but without my hood louvers I could fry eggs under there. Yes, I know the turbo generates heat too, my point is even in stock trim, it gets pretty damn hot under the hood of ANY vehicle, regardless of how many openings there are to let IN air from outside. It's getting the heated air OUT that's a problem for most vehicles, and the heat soak of all the parts and pieces close to the engine that's an issue. If you don't vent the engine compartment some way, just slapping an air filter on the end of a tube inside your engine compartment will not do anything to increase performance in any way,and will probably decrease actual performance, IMO. Snorkles are TRUE cold air intakes. The difference in ambiant air temp from 2ft to 6ft is negligable, if even measurable. The snorkle is not just for wading, it provides a CLEAN enviornment from which the engine can draw air. Most of the debris in the air is located at or near wheel level, snorkles draw in cleaner, cooler air from above the debris zone, and at speed can also provide somewhat of a "ram " effect, like the intakes of a modern motorcycle design.
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Don't know about you guys, but it's pretty warm under my hood. I think the whole intake design is a little poor - who's bright idea was it to use the TINY slit on the intake horn, and who's idea was it to run the intake directly over the engine & exhaust manifold ???