ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: essjay on July 25, 2009, 09:19:26 PM
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Hi all, wondered what might cause the valves to all of a sudden start ticking, I have had the sammy for a month now, I changed the oil when I first got it with mobile one high mileage, no tick, then a couple days ago, all of a sudden, started ticking, I checked the oil level and it was on the bottom mark, so, since it was ticking I added 3/4 quart of lucas, now it ticks mostly, but once it didnt. I am confused. Should I just adjust the valve lashing? To be honest I am afraid to screw with the timing belt, with the threats of the keyway issue, I will be screwed if thats out.
Thanks people.
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OK, I did some checking, cant tell where the sound is coming from till I get one of those mechanics stethescopes (sp?) btw Harbor Freight has them for like 3 bucks if anyone wants one.
the sound does not get louder or more defined if you take the oil filler cap off. I did on the other hand notice, a 1mm or less, wobble in the lower pulley, so I guess Ima have to tear that apart.
SO what all should I get? Autozone has a timing belt kit, but is vague about what is included, says "Recommended replacement: kit includes new belt and all new tensioners and/or idlers for the application" Im guessing its the timing belt and the tensioner, the belt is $13 by itself and the kit is 76 so what the hell else comes with it? I will call tomorrow and find out if no one knows.
I am also gonna get a waterpump and gasket. what else do I need to get? I am going to have to deal with this keyway issue also. We should compile a list of materials for this, then make a new post, and sticky it, cuz everytime I do a search I end up with 10 tabs up , and I just get confused.
hopefully its not too worn out, I spent all the money I had on this damn sammy, then lost my job. Think a 1mm wobble is still okay?
Where else could the ticking be coming from?
Sorry for bombarding you with these questions, but I went from a new car to a 23 year old vehicle, I am pretty inclined, but have no knowledge of sammys.
Thanks again
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I'd check the keyway first and then check the valve lash.
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heres my problem, I need to know everything Im going to need to fix the keyway before I start working on it, because once I tear it apart, I will be alone stuck 30 miles from anything, and its my only transpo.
should I do JB weld? do you know which locktite to use? am I going to need a pulley puller? things like that. Thats why I said it would be nice to have a list of items, so that in the future, anyone could just look here and get a good idea of what is needed before they disconnect their crankshaft, pretty much. lol
Thanks for your help
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My sammy did that too once. It was fixed when i performed a valve adjustment. I'd try that first.
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question is, should a less than one mm wobble warrant me tearing that all apart and fixing it now, is it gonna get worse quickly, or years down the road?
I plan on adjusting the valves, thanks for your response.
I can fix the pulley now if I need to, but dont want to have to spend anymore than I need to.
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the pully is held on by (4) 10 mm bolts. Not sure how you have a wobble there unless you have a wobble in the lower crank gear ( held on by the 17mm bolt) the pully and the lower gear are seperate from one another. The only way to "fix" the key way is to replace the crank or have it welded if in fact it is screwed up. The lower gear and the pulley are much easier to replace if you can isolate the problem to one or the other component. Look for a larger than normal groove in the lower crank pulley, smaller than normal key, stuff like that. Hope that helps
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what 's your oil pressure at?
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dont know, has no gauge, hopefully it has a warning light.
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I would suggest taking a close look at that lower pulley - the wobble is most likely the accessory pulley loose on the timing belt pulley, but if it's not, then it'll be a problem with the key and that is better fixed sooner rather than later, because it will get worse and rapidly.
It's going to be almost impossible to give you a list of what it'll take to fix it, without knowing how bad it is - the key is damaged for sure, the crank could be damaged, the pulley could be damaged - what happens is the center bolt loosens and allows the pulley to rotate slightly, usually there is no visible wobble, so if you are seeing a wobble, and it is not the four bolts loose, yours is far gone and you'll probably need some machine shop work on the crank and a replacement timing pulley & key.
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FI?
If so, how is your idle?
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no its a 1.3 8v carb sammy
man I hope its "half ass" fixable, I am done if i need to replace the crank. why cant you just set things in place, timed correctly, and weld/ jb weld it all? I mean motors got 130k on it, it runs great, but realistically, if something major goes out after changing the water pump and anything else I can get to when I take it apart, it will be time for anew engine anyway.
what all can I get to back there? oil pump prob
oh btw, if I do find out its just the pulley bolts, should I just leave the crank bolt alone? does this only happen when some slacker uses the easy way out, or does it happen eventually anyway?
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Exactly!! if you weld/jbweld it and there are any problems with oil pump or the front end seal you've had it.
And yes - if it's the pulley bolts just tighten them and leave the crank bolt alone
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you dont need a scope . all you need is sometning solid .
on old chevy engins we would use the dipstick .. however it doesnt work real well with a suzuki stick .
but all you need is a metal rod or tube . even a big long screw driver will do . just stick one end up against your ear and the other in the area you want to hear whats going on.
doing that you will be able to tell if its the lifters , which lifter . hold it below the head and on a cylinder and you will hear if a wrist pin is ticking . down on the bottom and on a Cylinder and you will here if its a rod bearing going . no need for a scope
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Yeah but its an excuse to go to harbor freight and get one
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howd ya make out my 02 2.0 started doing that hpefully can be a cheap fix it dohc though so I doubt it lol maybe thje engine warranty will come in handy
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Here's the deal:
You cannot tell if the crank accessory pulley ihas come loose from the tcrank timing belt pulley OR if the keyway is becoming wallowed until you take it apart!
From what you have written, it is too early to tell if the keyway is wallowed as you have not mentioned the sudden loss of power from a keyway wallow (the timing goes out because the camshaft is no longer precisely in time with the crankshaft) THIS IS A GOOD SIGN! ;D
Here is what you need to do:
Download the Samurai FSM at Ack's FAQ (Reprehensible self-promotion!). Use the link in my signature to go there and do a search for Samurai fsm. The download page should help you download the part that has the engine in it - so you don't have to download the whole thing if don't want to.
Study the timing belt parts of the engine section to get an idea of what things look like and how they go together.
To get at the crank accessory pulley for disassembly, remove the four 8mm nuts that hold the fan in place and carefully wiggle it out of it's home. Be sure to hod your mouth right! ;)
Remove the radiator shroud's four 10mm bolts and lift it out.
At this point you should have enough room to get to the four bolts that attach the crankshaft accessory pulley to the crankshaft timing belt pulley beneath it. Tighten those bolts to remove the wiggle that the pulley may have. If this fixes the problem, you are home free!
If it does not, you may have a bit of wallowing but it is good that you have caught it early!
To fix that, you'll need to remove the timing cover (removing the accessory pulley is the first and correct step!) followed by turning the crankshaft with a 17mm socket until you can actually see the key in the crankshaft that holds the timing pulley in place. Keep turning the crankshaft until it is pointing straight up. If there is extensive damage, you'll see it.
Here is where it gets touchy...
In order to remove the timing belt pulley, you must
1. keep the engine from turning. I remove the dust cover over the bottom of the transmission bellhousing (this exposes the flywheel) and clamp vice-grips to the flywheel on the driver's edge of the opening. This will keep the engine from turning as you remove the 17mm crank bolt.
2. to remove the 17mm crank bolt, apply heat to the end of the bolt with a propane tourch like you would use to solder copper pipe together - you want to get the bolt warm, not melt it. This will cause the locking goo installed at the factory to break down making the removal of the bolt a lot easier. Use a 1/2' rathchet with a pipe extension on the end to break the bolt loose. I do not reccomend using an air tool.
3. Carefully remove the bolt then remove the camshaft pulley and finally the key. If the key or pulley are damaged, you may need replacementsif the keyway is damaged, you can try cleaning it up a bit with a file, remove all grease/contaminents applying JB weld then reassembling everything using the manufacturer's torque specificatons. A fresh 17mm bolt and some locktitie is recommended.
AT NO TIME SHOULD YOU ROTATE EITHER THE CRANKSHAFT OR THE CAMSHAFT DURING THIS PROCESS!
[EDIT]
If you do, you'll have to go through the procedure for re-syncing all the timing.
Also, keep an eye on mechanical fuel pump. It's located on the intake side of the engine nat the firewall end. The tube that has no hose on it should not have any "wetness" on the end of it. If it does, you have a leaky pump!
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Yeah but its an excuse to go to harbor freight and get one
lmao
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Ive said this for years now, if there is a heaven, for me it would be a HF the size of Texas, and gods charge card.
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Ive said this for years now, if there is a heaven, for me it would be a HF the size of Texas, and gods charge card.
If I had God's charge card I'd certainly be shopping somewhere with higher quality tools than Harbor Freight... Granted I've got nothing major against HF, other than they treat their employees like crap and you have to get a feel for which tools are safe and which aren't. I currently buy pretty much all my tools there, but if I had God's charge card, I think I'd go for the best available.
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ahhh tisk tisk
I do agree though, you have to look before you buy, some of that stuff is "as seen on tv" quality. My personal belief is, when in doubt, take it out of the box!!
could you imagine a walmart the size of texas with 50 of every item EVER MADE in it!!! there you go, thats heaven on a stick!!