ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: djlantis57 on September 12, 2009, 01:36:58 AM
-
Hey guys I'm looking for low range gears for my 90 Tracker 2dr. So far I've found
Calmini's 4.24:1 low range kit
Trail Tough's 4.24:1 low range kit
Does anyone know of anything else on the market currently? I couldn't find anything else.
Which is better?
Also, what about these lockers Trail Tough is selling on a special right now?
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=240&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53
I didn't know Detroit made Suzuki lockers. What are they and how do they compare to a LockRight and such?
-
The Detroit EZ locker will preform about the same as a Lock-Rite. They both function the same way and are comparable in quality. I had both in my last kick and had years of dependable use out of them.
Both of the gear sets you are looking at for the T-case are good quality stuff. The main difference in the two: I think Trail Tough offers a 'set up in the case' option so all you need to do is put the t-case in the truck.
HTH,
Zig
-
Since yours is a 90 model, you will need to find a later model tcase to install the gears into, then swap tcases with yours as they only fit 91 & up supposedly. But then you will have your original tcase as backup if needed. Its worth it, you'll love them. Second best mod I've done. Rear locker was the best!
-
Lilred you're right, Brent at TT said they are 91-98 only. Does anyone know why this is the case (no pun intended)? And do Calmini's 4.24 gears fit in the older cases or 91-98 only. I've heard more good things abotu TT gears as being quieter. Probably since they are made by the OEM. But why are the cases different?
-
Lilred you're right, Brent at TT said they are 91-98 only. Does anyone know why this is the case (no pun intended)? And do Calmini's 4.24 gears fit in the older cases or 91-98 only. I've heard more good things abotu TT gears as being quieter. Probably since they are made by the OEM. But why are the cases different?
Supposedly, the earlier tcases are made slightly different on the inside. I've never taken both apart and compared them though, to see exactly where/what the difference is.
-
I found that with either Trail Tough OR Calmini, I have to get a 91-98 case. My 90 won't work :(
But is it doable to swap in a Samurai case? Or do they just not match up to the trans like a Sidekick/Tracker case will? I'm not much of a fabricator, so anything major is out of the question, cause I wouldn't trust myself doing it, and wouldn't want to shell out the cash for someone else to do it.
Let me know if any of you all have put a Samurai case into a Sidekick/Tracker and how you did it.
ALSO
Does the 91-98 case require any modifications to install it in an older (pre-91) Sidekick/Tracker??? Mine is a 90 Tracker LSi 5spd trans. Or are they just different internally only?
Both of the gear sets you are looking at for the T-case are good quality stuff. The main difference in the two: I think Trail Tough offers a 'set up in the case' option so all you need to do is put the t-case in the truck.
HTH,
Zig
BTW I did some research here and you're right Zig. Calmini said they do not offered set-up cases, Trail Tough will do it for $995, plus you pay shipping both ways. They seem like a helluva deal...if I had the right case.
-
its not that hard to do the gear swap yourself if your mechanically inclined. only thing is that you will have to grind some of the case on the inside for the new gears to fit. but if your willing to pay them to do it then it would be a better idea. i'm sure they would warranty it too. as for the sami tcase they are divorced cases so you cant use them. I had a extra tcase but i ended up using it for parts. I'm looking a a tcase on another sight for sale but i dont know the year of the tracker yet. I dont know what the difference is in the tcase's in the years. I have owned a few trackers but they were all 91 or newer.
-
The difference is not in the case housing it's self, but the cover, the later cover is a little longer on the gear side. you could just change the cover and install the gears, but what's the point, you still need the newer case for the cover.
I had a friend of mine cut my case with a fly cutter on his mill, came out real clean, and the gears
have about 1/16 of an inch clearance from the case.
Wild
-
yeah that works if you have access to that machine. I could have if i still worked at a machine shop but thats getting hard to do in the state of michigan. i just did it with a die grinder and a carbide bit. either way it works.
-
The difference is not in the case housing it's self, but the cover, the later cover is a little longer on the gear side. you could just change the cover and install the gears, but what's the point, you still need the newer case for the cover.
I had a friend of mine cut my case with a fly cutter on his mill, came out real clean, and the gears
have about 1/16 of an inch clearance from the case.
Wild
What are you calling the cover?
-
Cover? Everyone but us MARINES calls 'em "hats"! Dawgonnit! I just bought a 90 tranny & T-case! Couldn't pass up the $50 tag on it! ;)
-
I need to find time to price one from my local junkyards. Bigzuki sold his 4dr but still has the '96 case, he says. I wonder if I can get it from him and have it shipped directly to Trail Tough for the gear install instead of shipping it myself...but dang that's still a long time ahead till I plan on doing this...oh well it depends on what's on the market by the time I get around to the gears... want to do them now though :(
-
just to let you know. I have that kit and was running 5.12 gears in the axles with 31's. in low lock and 3rd gear i could only do 15 mph at 4000 but i could turn the crap out of the tires. I really needed to drop it down to the 4.62 or the 4.3 gears. I have 3.55 and running 33's on it now with a solid axle and i tested it last sunday and it is working pretty good. its spinning the tires really good. I thought the 3.55 would be to high but i guess not. i will see what it does this sunday i will get on it a little harder this time.
-
I need to find time to price one from my local junkyards. Bigzuki sold his 4dr but still has the '96 case, he says. I wonder if I can get it from him and have it shipped directly to Trail Tough for the gear install instead of shipping it myself...but dang that's still a long time ahead till I plan on doing this...oh well it depends on what's on the market by the time I get around to the gears... want to do them now though :(
Be aware that a 96 tcase has a different spline output shaft. So you will either have to swap in an earlier output shaft or use a slip yoke off a 96 or newer driveshaft on your driveshaft (or just use a complete driveshaft from a 96 or newer....just be sure they are the same length, since there are several different lengths of driveshafts for trackicks).
-
The cover is the front part that bolts on and is attached to the transmission.
It's pretty flat, only about 1-1/2 inches thick.
Wild
-
The cover is the front part that bolts on and is attached to the transmission.
It's pretty flat, only about 1-1/2 inches thick.
Wild
Ahh, ok. I'll have to compare some of my tcases around here.
Thanks.
-
Be aware that a 96 tcase has a different spline output shaft. So you will either have to swap in an earlier output shaft or use a slip yoke off a 96 or newer driveshaft on your driveshaft (or just use a complete driveshaft from a 96 or newer....just be sure they are the same length, since there are several different lengths of driveshafts for trackicks).
Does anyone know the cutoff year for the different spline count? And what year has the fine spline output shaft? Because Trail Tough makes a SYE for the fine spline case only:
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=221&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53
And I'm planning on running my stock shafts and not want to change output shafts, looking for the right case, ready-to-go.
Is 91-95 the right spline count to work with my 90? Or what year did they start the different splines?
-
A SYE will require changing the end on the drive shaft to a flange
Wild
-
89-95 tcases have a fine spline (26) output.
96s and up have the coarse spline (16) output.
I have heard of some 95s having the coarse spline output shaft. But I don't know if that is just because people thought they had a 95, when it was really a 96, or if 95s could have had either.
-
89-95 tcases have a fine spline (26) output.
96s and up have the coarse spline (16) output.
I have heard of some 95s having the coarse spline output shaft. But I don't know if that is just because people thought they had a 95, when it was really a 96, or if 95s could have had either.
Thanks!
-
The difference is not in the case housing it's self, but the cover, the later cover is a little longer on the gear side. you could just change the cover and install the gears, but what's the point, you still need the newer case for the cover.
I had a friend of mine cut my case with a fly cutter on his mill, came out real clean, and the gears
have about 1/16 of an inch clearance from the case.
Wild
I just measured a 90 tcase and a 94 tcase and the covers are the same thickness, the casting dimensions are the same on the outside (I didn't pull the cover off, and I'm not going to, to check internally). Everything that I could measure externally was the same. So I am not sure where the difference lies, unless you are talking thousandths of an inch differences somewhere.
-
It's the inside
;)
Wild
-
It's the inside
;)
Wild
Hmmm, that's odd. With the cover thickness dimensions and outside depths in the casting being the same, I would think the inside would be the same too. I guess they must use thinner gears and/or other parts to compensate for the difference.
-
I did my own in my 95. It took me about a half-hour with a file, to clearance the case. It's just not that hard. I stressed about it for days, but when I had the tcase out, the whole process was done in an hour.
And...SOUND? I don't know what you expect when you're at 90:1 gearing, but I wouldn't say the tcase makes much sound.
Oh - I have the Calmini unit. Going up and down Lion's Back, at moab, I had it in second gear.
-
How about the OTT Kicker setups? The Kicker 1 says it adapts a Samurai case to work in the Samurai with a Sidekick engine and trans swap. So could this theory be used to adapt a Samurai case into a Tracker?
And the Kicker 3: does this adapt a samurai case to run behind a Track/kick case? What about the rear driveshaft length? I'm running a 2dr.
-
How about the OTT Kicker setups? The Kicker 1 says it adapts a Samurai case to work in the Samurai with a Sidekick engine and trans swap. So could this theory be used to adapt a Samurai case into a Tracker?
And the Kicker 3: does this adapt a samurai case to run behind a Track/kick case? What about the rear driveshaft length? I'm running a 2dr.
I would say a kicker 3 would be your best bet, between the two. Since the kicker 1 is made to run the samurai tcase in divorced mode....which will make the drivetrain that much longer (something you can't really afford, in a 2 door trackick).
The kicker 3 shortens up the overall length of the trackick tcase and couples the samurai tcase directly onto the back of the trackick tcase. It is still going to be longer than the original trackick tcase by itself setup, but not as long as a kicker 1 setup. You are still going to have the issue of a shorter rear driveshaft, and I am not sure how much you can shorten the 2 door trackick rear driveshaft, before it becomes a problem with ujoint angles and such.
One other thing that guys do, that don't need the extra gear reduction in low (which is provided by keeping the trackick tcase), is to run a 2wd trackick tranny with a divorced samurai tcase. I am not real familiar with that setup in a trackick, so I am not sure how that affects rear driveshaft length. There is also the option of just removing the trackick tcase from the trackick tranny and running the samurai tcase with an intermediate shaft (that makes the overall drivetrain shorter than running the 2wd tranny with a samurai tcase). Again, I am not real familiar with that setup either, so someone else will have to give you more info on that.
One other thing to keep in mind, is that a samurai tcase has an offset rear output, so you are going to have complex ujoint angles on your rear driveshaft. Many people run that type of setup in a samurai (when they run a trackick rear axle) without issues....but just something else to think about. So that being said, the longer your rear driveshaft can be, the better.
-
Geez, you're like a dictionary of knowledge, ain't you!
Basically, I wouldn't need TWO cases providing low range...primarily because I have a 2dr and that rear driveshaft needs to be as long as possible otherwise it's too short (it's already a short shaft). I think it'd be good to either run my Tracker case with 4.24 OR, if possible, eliminate my case and install a Samurai case, and install a gear set in that case. Because in a Samurai case, the reduction also affects the high range, too, right? That would almost be like me gearing my low to 4.24 and changing my diffs to 5.38 or 5.62 if I installed a Samurai case with just the 6.5:1. Except, I wouldn't have to mess with my diffs that way.
One other thing that guys do, that don't need the extra gear reduction in low (which is provided by keeping the trackick tcase), is to run a 2wd trackick tranny with a divorced samurai tcase.
I'm confused...what do you mean here? That they run a 2wd Tracker transmission, with the Samurai case?
There is also the option of just removing the trackick tcase from the trackick tranny and running the samurai tcase with an intermediate shaft (that makes the overall drivetrain shorter than running the 2wd tranny with a samurai tcase).
I was under the impression that this is what a Kicker 1 does...reading the site, it says it is meant to mount a Samurai case to a Track/kick engine and trans...so is this what it does?
How does this setup run shorter than using a 2wd trans with the Samurai case?
-
One other thing that guys do, that don't need the extra gear reduction in low (which is provided by keeping the trackick tcase), is to run a 2wd trackick tranny with a divorced samurai tcase.
I'm confused...what do you mean here? That they run a 2wd Tracker transmission, with the Samurai case?
There is also the option of just removing the trackick tcase from the trackick tranny and running the samurai tcase with an intermediate shaft (that makes the overall drivetrain shorter than running the 2wd tranny with a samurai tcase).
I was under the impression that this is what a Kicker 1 does...reading the site, it says it is meant to mount a Samurai case to a Track/kick engine and trans...so is this what it does?
How does this setup run shorter than using a 2wd trans with the Samurai case?
The Tracker 2wd transmission has the same output as the Samurai transmission, so you can use the stock jack shaft to go straight into a Samurai Transfer Case.
The Kicker 1 allows you to run a divorced Samurai behind a 4wd Tracker transmission. No idea about the difference in length between the two however.
I prefer the Kicker 3 style setup so you get the 2:1 low along with whatever low range is in your transfer case. I am kind of biased though, as I currently have 6.5:1 along with 5.12 in the axles. I spend most of my trail time in 3rd gear low range, a 2:1 would be just perfect for general trail running then switching to the 6.5 for the rocks. Then 13:1 for when I am feeling cheeky. :D
-
So let's make sure I understand: the Kicker 1 and Kicker 3 both adapt a Samurai case behind A Tracker/Sidekick transfer case. The Kicker1 leaves the Samurai as a divorced case, but the Kicker 3 makes the Samurai case mated?
I'm confused about using a 2wd trans...using a 2wd trans in front of a Samurai case will allow the Samurai intermediate shaft to work right away, but will be longer than using a 4x4 trans and Samurai case?
-
Can't help you on the length, but you are correct about the Kicker 1 and Kicker 3. One nice thing about Kicker 3 is it is not any longer then a stock Samurai drive train. It is wider though and requires some modification.
-
Eh, with all this, seems like I'd be best just installing the 4.24 gearset in a Tracker case. Still need a newer one, cause my 90 won't work...but it'd be simpler and easier. Also, if I put the Samurai case in there, and geared it down, it would change my final drive ratio in high range...and I like the street driving it has now, so don't want to change it, it tachs about 3,700 at 65 in 5th and climbs the grade in 4th pedal to the floor pretty good too. Seems like it'd be as slow as I'd ever need to go with 4.24 compared to my 1.82 I have now
-
Geez, you're like a dictionary of knowledge, ain't you!
Basically, I wouldn't need TWO cases providing low range...primarily because I have a 2dr and that rear driveshaft needs to be as long as possible otherwise it's too short (it's already a short shaft). I think it'd be good to either run my Tracker case with 4.24 OR, if possible, eliminate my case and install a Samurai case, and install a gear set in that case. Because in a Samurai case, the reduction also affects the high range, too, right? That would almost be like me gearing my low to 4.24 and changing my diffs to 5.38 or 5.62 if I installed a Samurai case with just the 6.5:1. Except, I wouldn't have to mess with my diffs that way.
Yes, a samurai tcase has high range reduction built into it and if you put in lower gears, it also lowers the high range ratio even more.
One other thing that guys do, that don't need the extra gear reduction in low (which is provided by keeping the trackick tcase), is to run a 2wd trackick tranny with a divorced samurai tcase.
I'm confused...what do you mean here? That they run a 2wd Tracker transmission, with the Samurai case?
Yes, they run a 2wd trackick tranny with a samurai tcase.
There is also the option of just removing the trackick tcase from the trackick tranny and running the samurai tcase with an intermediate shaft (that makes the overall drivetrain shorter than running the 2wd tranny with a samurai tcase).
I was under the impression that this is what a Kicker 1 does...reading the site, it says it is meant to mount a Samurai case to a Track/kick engine and trans...so is this what it does?
How does this setup run shorter than using a 2wd trans with the Samurai case?
A kicker 1 keeps the trackick tcase on the trackick tranny and then just modifies the backside of the trackick tcase and output shaft to shorten everything up a little bit.
If you remove the trackick tcase from the trackick tranny, I believe that makes the tranny shorter overall than a trackick 2wd tranny. And, IIRC, the output shaft of the 4wd trackick tranny is the same spline as the output shaft of the 2wd trackick tranny and the output shaft of the samurai tranny. So you can run the samurai intermediate shaft (shortened or stock length) between the tranny and the samurai tcase.
It sounds like you don't want to change your high (2wd) range ratio any.....so therefore, your only choice is to NOT run a samurai tcase, since there is no way around the built in reduction in high range that the samurai tcase has. You just need to regear your trackick tcase and run it that way....since lower tcase gears do not affect the high range ratio in a trackick tcase.
-
Makes a lot of sense, thanks for all the help. I'm pretty sure I don't want to change my high range ratio at all, just the low. From what I understand, the 4.24 is more than enough for my use.