ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: Jookycola on October 18, 2009, 04:29:10 PM
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Ok, so how hard can this be to do by myself? I am mechanically inclined, i do my own valve adjustments, oil changes, tune-up's, brakes...so I'm not a total boob. But I've NEVER done a timing belt so I'll admit I'm a little intimidated. What do i need to do to do this at home? Any tips or things i should be aware of to help or any surprises i should be aware of in advance.
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If you can adjust your vavles you can do the timing belt. Do a search on Acks Faq, you can get both a walk-thru and the factory service manual. Should take you a couple of hours if all goes well. Be sure to replace the front seal while your there.
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It's not too hard, just a lot of crap to move out of the way to get to it.
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as the others said , not hard at all .
i would have to say much easier then changing a timing chain on a small block " getting to it wise "
yep go to ACK's web site and walk through it
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Not hard; 8v you will ahve to release vale tension first.
lookee here:
http://www.kick-fix.com/t-belt/tbelt.html (http://www.kick-fix.com/t-belt/tbelt.html)
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Not hard; 8v you will ahve to release vale tension first.
lookee here:
[url]http://www.kick-fix.com/t-belt/tbelt.html[/url] ([url]http://www.kick-fix.com/t-belt/tbelt.html[/url])
Okay, we have a serious problem here.
It is NOT necessary to loosen the valve adjusters to do a timing belt swap!
The Samurai Factory Service Manual is written from the perspective of a COMPLETE ENGINE TEARDOWN. When it states that you need to loosen the valve adjusters, it makes that statement based on steps that follow in the FSM that require the loosening of the valve adjusters TO REMOVE THE CAMSHAFT FROM THE HEAD! Since you are not removing the camshaft from the head, you don't need to loosen the valve lash adjusters to replace the timing belt.
Loosening the valve lash adjusters only complicates the process in that you will have to reset the valve lash for no apparent reason.
Consider this: You have, for purposes of regular maintenence, adjusted the valve lash. Now you want to replace the timing belt. Why throw out all that effort just because someone misread the FSM instructions and and, in trying to be helpful, tells you that you MUST loosen the valve lash!??!?
Further, if you loosen the adjusters, you make it easy for the camshaft to rotate which leads to losing the positional relationship between the camshaft and the crankshaft. This, in turn, throws the timing out of whack - something that can be completely avoided by NOT loosening the valve adjusters.;
I am not trying to be mean, ecoast. I am trying to point out that everyone has a responsibility to his/her fellow Zuker to provide accurate, correct information when posting answers on a forum and - more importantly, own up to your mistakes when they become obvious. Many of the regulars here have seen posts here and elsewhere by me admitting when I have screwed up.
Although I think that everyone - myself included - appreciates your efforts with kick-fix.com, you should be very careful about rewriting maintenence procedures. Referring to the page http://www.kick-fix.com/t-belt/tbelt.html (http://www.kick-fix.com/t-belt/tbelt.html), I speak from experience when I say that you should NEVER remove the bolt that holds the crankshaft timing belt gear in place UNLESS you ACTUALLY can determine that it is necessary to do so for whatever reason! If the keyway is wallowed, you will be able to tell by a visual and/or tactile inspection of the crank timing belt pulley when changing the timing belt.
Finally, I want to make this perfectly clear that there is no intention in this post to promote my website over yours. There is nothing better than more than one source of accurate, clearly presented information when it comes to helping other Zukers get the most from their trucks! Those Zukers are the ones who determine the popularity of a particular website. If everyone suddenly decides to use your site over mine, the fault is mine and mine alone because I didn't work hard enough to get it right.
I EXPECT you to do better than this 59-year-old geezer has done!
I hope that this helps!
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i been wondering that Ack .
backing the valves off that is .
I dont understand why someone would need to ? But who am I to question about these engines .
if the valves are set correctly to begin with , that is .
now i cant say what i do is right , but i have not had an issue .
i bring the timing marks up .
i simply loosen the tension wheel.
slip the old belt off . slide the new belt on , making sure that the right hand side "looking at the face of the engine " is the tight side of the belt . then re adjust the belt tessioner .
Now maybe im missing something and have just been lucky .
But I cant see any reason to have to loosen the valves up . Doing so wont loosen the timing belt any
700 seems really , really high .
takes all of about 45 minutes to get to the belt and maybe that to put it all back together and thats pulling the radiator , fan , , crang 'PULLEY ' not to be confused with crank gear , timing belt cover and the belt .
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Yep.
Remove cover, release tensioner, remove belt, replace belt with right side tight, retighten tensioner, replace cover.
The toughest part is getting to the cover. ...And that is why it's 700 bucks (or , as Click and Clack say, maybe someone needs to make a bass boat payment... ;D )
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naa getting to the cover isnt hard at all .
What I do is take the 4 bots off the shroud
Then the 2 bolts that hold the radiator in .
Then drain the radiator and disconnect the hoses
Slide the radiator up and out .
4 nuts off the clutch fan and remove the fan from the pump .
Remove the 5 small bolts off the crank pulley and slide it off
Then remove the bolts and center nut off the cover and take it off .
Then I line up the timing marks by turning the crank .
Then loosen the idler
Slide the belt off . Put the new bet on .
Set the idler
Check the timing marks are still where they should be
Then just button everything back in by reverse order .
No real issues .
The only thing that sucks is having to do it again because your water pump desides to start leaking a week later .
Then turning around and doing it again a couple weeks later when the front end desides it wants to start leaking LOL
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Dumb-dumb question
since i never did this before, sorry for sounding like a newb, but how do i line up the timing marks? You're talking about top dead center right? and if not then what am i looking for to know i did that right?
Yeah $700 wounds high to me too, but my other offer from another shop of $500 sounded ri-friggin-diculous to me too. These estimates were based on belt replacement with a water pump & and some pulley replacement as well. 3 shops told me it's such a complex repair i'd be smart to replace the water pump at that time and that the pulley...i can't remember which one now...has to be replaced with the timing belt or they would refuse to do it.
Either way i see timing belt kits on ebay for like $30. So i can't justify spending $700 on bullsh*t when the part only costs $30. And maybe i'm not very acks faqs savvy but i couldn't find the page on timing belt step-by-step like you all said. I see a lot of Samurai stuff but i have a 1995 16v Sidekick.
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What you want is Page 15 and 16 of the FSM.
http://www.acksfaq.com/96-FSM-v1-6A-pdf.htm
That gives you pictures on the timing belt along with the removal and installation guide. There was a really good link from another Zuki board I had at one time, can't find it now. But the FSM should see you through.
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Dumb-dumb question
since i never did this before, sorry for sounding like a newb, but how do i line up the timing marks? You're talking about top dead center right? and if not then what am i looking for to know i did that right?
There is no such thing as a stupid question.
Suppose you just want to replace the timing belt and nothing else...
It's as simple as "remove the timing belt cover, release the tensioner, remove the belt, install new belt with zero slop on the right side (the side pposite of the adjuster), re-tighten the adjuster, hand rotate the crank two revolutions (720 degrees) to make sure the belt is seated properly and finally - put the timing belt cover back on.
Note that "lining up the timing marks" was never mentioned in the above "run-on" sentence. :laugh:
(Nor was removing the EFFING 17mm Crankshaft Bolt mentioned, either! >:( )
That's because all the threads that you have read here and at other forums where there was mention of getting the "timing set right" involved the removal of the head itself for some reason or involved a broken timing belt. Either of those events can cause the camshaft to lose synchronization with the crankshaft. Only in those situations do you need to worry about the camshaft and crankshaft arrows pointing up or down or at each other depending on what manual you are reading.
Simply replacing the timing belt itself does not require any movement of the crankshaft or camshaft relative to each other in any way. That which is not changed need not be fixed.
I hope that this helps!
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I wish i had read this two days ago
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Not hard; 8v you will ahve to release vale tension first.
lookee here:
[url]http://www.kick-fix.com/t-belt/tbelt.html[/url] ([url]http://www.kick-fix.com/t-belt/tbelt.html[/url])
Okay, we have a serious problem here.
It is NOT necessary to loosen the valve adjusters to do a timing belt swap!
The Samurai Factory Service Manual is written from the perspective of a COMPLETE ENGINE TEARDOWN. When it states that you need to loosen the valve adjusters, it makes that statement based on steps that follow in the FSM that require the loosening of the valve adjusters TO REMOVE THE CAMSHAFT FROM THE HEAD! Since you are not removing the camshaft from the head, you don't need to loosen the valve lash adjusters to replace the timing belt.
Loosening the valve lash adjusters only complicates the process in that you will have to reset the valve lash for no apparent reason.
Consider this: You have, for purposes of regular maintenence, adjusted the valve lash. Now you want to replace the timing belt. Why throw out all that effort just because someone misread the FSM instructions and and, in trying to be helpful, tells you that you MUST loosen the valve lash!??!?
Further, if you loosen the adjusters, you make it easy for the camshaft to rotate which leads to losing the positional relationship between the camshaft and the crankshaft. This, in turn, throws the timing out of whack - something that can be completely avoided by NOT loosening the valve adjusters.;
I was providing a detailed link for someone who has not done this; the reader/OP can make a decision as to whether or not he/she is capable.
Yes, it takes an additional 10 minutes. If they have not been adjusted, then there is comfort in knowing it is done by doing it for oneself.
Loosening the valves won't make it go ' out of wack' as long as the marks stay aligned. You can be off a tooth whether the valves are loose or not, if you are not careful.
I have done it both with and withouth loosening lash; no harm, no foul.
Agreed; not necessary, but if he is following FSM, he will get new timing belt, idler and a free valve adjustment!
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Okay, this particular post has nothing to do with who considers the "right" way to replace the timing belt.
It concerns the original post referring to a timing belt change costing $700.
I just discovered that replacing the timing chain cover seal on my 2.5l V6 will cost $800! Somewhere in the vicinity of the 1.6 timing belt change quote, right?
Maybe it wasn't a Bass Boat payment but rather the inability (?) to use the job estimator software.... ;)
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I did one for the first time last year, The Kick fix instructions from the link above make it simple and has a step by step procedure should you lose the timing for any reason.... It took me about 4 hours start to finish but I had to add another hour to that for the trip to town and back for a new water pump gasket and some good sealer for the water pump after I pinched the cheap-o gasket that came with the water pump kit and had it leak.
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I really don't think its that far out of line. if you have ever ran a shop or most any business it makes sense. the shop has to bring in a certain amount of money to keep the lights on. they don't care if its a 89 tracker 0r a 2011 powerstroke. there providing a service that a custom cant do, wont do, or might not have time to do. I am somewhat mechanically inclined but still have taken my rig to a shop for things I just don't want to.
same thought with motor swaps. a guy might be able to do a hi-zoot motor swap in his garage for 3k and a pro will want 15k.some people will balk at the thought and others will head to the bank.
but with patients and a manual a timing belt job is very doable. you have lots of good help here.
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you have lots of good help here.
Very true. It also helps if you have a friend who is a mechanic that does all your work relatively less expensive. He also lets me buy the parts so he won't have to mark them up.
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Final post on this topic for me:
I had the timing chain cover gasket replaced on my 2.5L V-6 Tracker 4-door by one of our local Zukers who also has his own shop.
He showed me the estmator page for the 2.5L V-6 job.
It said 9 hours to tear down and rebuild the front of the engine block as part of the gasket replacement process.
If you have ever seen the front of the 2.5 V-6, you will instantly realize that getting at the timing cover is FAR more difficult than the same process on a 1.3 OR a 1.6 engine!
Thus, I believe that someone was either looking for a Bass Boat payment or was not plugging the right information into the estimator application.
Or maybe both!