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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: djlantis57 on December 19, 2009, 02:22:41 AM
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Hey all, got some stuff on my mind at 2am I'd want to share with all of you:
First off, anyone run a Diesel engine in a Samurai, Sidekick, or Tracker, and run it on vegetable oil?
I finished my college finals yesterday and was on campus today to talk with a teacher, he asked me to come in. There's an "undergraduate research grant" I am able to apply for since it deals with my major, Industrial Technology wth an emphasis on Transportation Systems Management. A few other people are applying, it's good for up to $1000. Someone is going to make a pressure-based variable valve timing system.
I was thinking really hard about something I could create and test, that would work to my advantage if it were designed on my Tracker. I was thinking of making a TB spacer, or a "true" cold air intake (make a new plenum to draw air from the "cold" side of the engine instead of being routed over the hot side), and running it on an engine analyzer and dynamometer to see the results, also emissions is key (I live in CA >:(). All seem like good ideas but someone had a better idea:
Use the $1,000 to buy a diesel engine and convert it to run on pure veggie oil as my research grant project. Finish the project before this summer. Keep the engine, and start figuring out new engine mounts, so when school rolls around again after that
summer, I can make it my senior graduate project to drop the veggie oil diesel in the Tracker (because I need a senior project when I graduate soon)
Seems like a good idea...but I fear that getting a diesel engine, and converting it will run over $1,000. Any ideas? Because I know in the Suzuki community that VOLKSWAGEN diesels are the most popular, but there are also a few different types I've seen people run.
So, what's the word on diesels in these little trucks? Which one: not too heavy, not too powerful, but plenty of low-end diesel grunt and longevity and ability to run on veggie oil?
It'd be nice to have the word DIESEL on my Tracker's registration at DMV so I can tell CA SMOG to go pick on someone else >:D
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Most of the conversion kits for the Suzuki's are based on the VW 4 cyl diesels. The size, weight, dimentions, and adaptability are the best for these vehicles and still use the remaider of the factory drivetrain ie; trans, clutch, t-case, etc. The VW 1.9 TDI motor seems to be a great choice with power adders available for it, is clean buring, and CA emissions legal. The power as compared to the stock is almost doubled. There's a company that makes the veggie oil kit and their website is www.greasecar.com (http://www.greasecar.com). For what you will spend to convert this over, a grand isnt going to even touch it. The www.acmeadapters.com (http://www.acmeadapters.com) kit is going to run you somewhere around 1,500 to 2,500 bucks and your going to have to find a donor vehicle for a motor, fuel pump, injectors, radiators and multiple others just to get it together. The veggie oil kit is about 1,500 to 2,000 bucks for that kit as well. Total cost could be anywhere around the 7000-8000 dollar range by the time your done. You might be able to cut costs if your a good fabricator and have access to machining/milling tools, but your still looking at the 3000 dollar range. Thats kinda the long and short of it, but I know that I have overlooked a lot of info. If I have mis-stated anything or overlooked anything, then please feel free to correct me.
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A diesel that has been used for years in some markets Factory Kicks and GV's was the Mazda RF. It was also used in your Ford Escort briefly in a fairly low power output version (probably no intercooler).
Suzuki have also used the Peugeot XUD9TE and RHZ. There are a number of variants of these in things like the Peugeot 306, 405 and 406. They have also used a Renault 1.5 diesel in the Jimny.
If you can source any of these then you can probably also source things like belllhousings and engine mounts to fit it to yours.
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I'm not on here as much as I used to be, but this thread caught my eye. I would love to do this, but not if it would cost an arm and a leg, which is what it sounds like.
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It depends on how you do it. You can get an adapter for 600+ from Acme which covers most everything. Then get a diesel out of a rear ended VW Rabbit at pick and pull for 300. If you have tools and a place you can figure 200 for for fluids, and misc shop and engine stuff. I looked into it before for the Tracker I just was not able to line up the money, time and place all at once. Also I did put a 4 cylinder diesel in my Willies Wagoneer as well and its not as bad as you might think as long as you or your buddy can weld. If you have any kind of a commute it would pay for itself pretty quick. There is only going to be less oil, not more.
Also you might contact this guy, it's a current thread.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/classifieds/1990-tracker-with-vw-turbo-diesel-los-angeles/ (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/classifieds/1990-tracker-with-vw-turbo-diesel-los-angeles/)
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Yeah, I saw that. LA is local to me, too. Interesting, but not in the cards at this time, the deadline was today (Tuesday) and I never did anything about it. If I decide to do something with it in a few years, I guess I might...but my 1.6L is chugging away for now just fine...maybe if/when it burns itself out a diesel would be in the works
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I just finished installing a nissan sd22 diesel and 5 speed out of a 1982 nissan 720 pick up. Required some home made fabbed motor and tranny mounts, and moving the t-case back 6 inches as well as redoing the driveshafts. I am running stock gears and 31 inch tires and so far have way more power over the stock 1.3motor. Cost was $400 for the truck. So pretty cheap compared to vw conversion etc. Something to think about.
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here's one of the motor in it.
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How does the power compare to the stock configuration? Did you have to slide the t-case back due to the length of the new transmission?
My cousin has one of these engines sitting in a truck, I'm tempted every once in a while to look at a conversion for my SJ.
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There was a guy here on ZW selling a 1.9ltr VW TDI for $800. On top of that, he only lived an hour away from me here in NJ, It was in the classified section. Sounded tempting to me for the increased fuel milage alone, nevermind the increased torque, and the associated enviornmentel benefits of being able to run veggie oil. But, buy the time everything is said and done, all the needed accessories added in, a rebuild of motor and turbo to ensure reliability, How much would I have to drive to realize any savings on fuel costs? Not enough to make it worth it .....YET. What really convinced me though, is I'm broke and unemployed! Otherwise, I'd have been ALL OVER THAT! A diesel trackick would be the shit!
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I ran a 1.9 TD in my 95' Tracker for a bit. My tracker of course is on Toyota axles with 5.29 gears.
Because this was a recent swap for me, I can tell you that you will have close to 5K (or more) into this build if you want to get a decent motor. I spent 2500.00 on my 60K mile German 1.9 TD. So, what do I mean by decent motor? Well, the 1.6 NA (non turbo) is a fairly common engine found here in the states. The 1.6 TD (Turbo Diesel) is also fairly common, but not like the NA as mentioned above. The 1.9 TD can be purchased from companies that bring them over from Germany and they are the engine with the most HP and Torque WITHOUT having to mess with any wiring. My suggestion is run the 1.9TD.
Here are some specs on the engines in comparison to the stock 1.6 Suzuki engine:
SUZUKI
1.3: 60 HP and 76 ft lbs torque
1.6: 80 HP and 94 ft lbs torque
1.6 Vitara: 77 HP and 93 ft lbs torque
VW
1.5NA (CK): 48 HP and 58 ft lbs torque
1.6NA (CR, JK, ME): 52 HP and 71 ft lbs torque
1.6TD (CY, MF): 68 HP and 98 ft lbs torque
1.9NA (1Y): 70 HP and 100 ft lbs torque
1.9TD (AAZ): 75 HP and 107 ft lbs torque
1.9TDI (1Z): 90 HP and 149 ft lbs torque
The engine I was running is the AAZ VW 1.9 TD and I must say, it is much better than the 1.6TD. However, the 1.9 TD AAZ engine which was never brought into the states and iis an IDI (Indirect Injection) motor that does not require the electronics like the newer 1.9 TDI found in the newer Diesel golf, bug, and Jetta.
Now, if you want to go with the 1.9 TDI engine (as someone recommended), be prepared to do one of two things: spend an additional 1500 dollars to get a special injection pump made (this is called the mechanical TDI pump), or figure out a way to use the electronics from the donor vehicle.
Point I am trying to make: if you want an easy swap without any electronics and have the most horsepower / torque available, then go with the AAZ engine (1.9 TD).
Let us talk about cost again: do you want to do it once and do it right? If you do, then here are some "additional" things you will need other than the engine, acme adapter kit (www.acmeadapters.com (http://www.acmeadapters.com)) ($995.00), etc.
# Engine Mounting Brackets (includes clutch cable bracket mount) all except 1999 and newer engines $165
# GM Alternator Upgrade Bracket $135
# New GM Alternator (105 amp) $96
# New Diesel Glow Plug Relay and Wiring Harness $145
# Remote Oil filter relocation kit $145
# Throttle Cable (for all diesels except TDI) $29
# New diesel fuel filter housing and filter $65
# ACME Extra Heavy-duty Clutch: pressure plate, Kevlar/Aramid disc, throwout bearing $285
# EGT Sensor and Guage (about 125.00)
# Boost Guage (about 50.00)
# Radiator swap: I did the 4 door radiator as it was larger, however your stock one might be fine.
In addition to the above, you will have hoses, hose clamps, wiring, misc. items to purchase.
If you run a suspension solid axle lift like I do (Trail Slayer Kit), you will have to relocate the power steering pump from the lower position (stock) up higher next to the injection pump. If you can fab, this is not an issue. I ran the VW pump with the stock Suzuki PS steering box. I did have to run a PS cooler to keep it from over heating.
Just an FYI, I no longer have the VW 1.9 TD in my Tracker as I just had www.liberty-overland.com (http://www.liberty-overland.com) put in a Suzuki 2.5 V6 with an Automatic. Why you may ask: well I just wanted more horsepower as I wanted to start driving it daily on the freeway. This brings me to what I loved about the VW Diesel.
I loved the diesel off road and driving around town. Gobs of torque and was truly amazing off road. However, because my gearing setup is so low (5.29 ring/pinion), I did not like driving it on the freeway. I basically just ran out of gear. I was in fifth gear all the time on the freeway and was running about 55 to 60 mph before the EGT temps got higher than I liked.
In my case, I needed to do different Axle gears (probably around 4.10 would have been perfect). Problem with that is the cost of switching over the gears. I already had the 5.29's with a rear spool and front locker.
In any case, I really liked the diesel, but decided to change things up and "really" get some HP, thus the V6.
In case your wondering if I still have the 1.9 TD? Well, glad you asked. Yes I do and here is the CL ad:
http://salem.craigslist.org/pts/1566011241.html (http://salem.craigslist.org/pts/1566011241.html)
Good luck with the diesel as it is really a great swap.
-Val-
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I just finished installing a nissan sd22 diesel and 5 speed out of a 1982 nissan 720 pick up. Required some home made fabbed motor and tranny mounts, and moving the t-case back 6 inches as well as redoing the driveshafts. I am running stock gears and 31 inch tires and so far have way more power over the stock 1.3motor. Cost was $400 for the truck. So pretty cheap compared to vw conversion etc. Something to think about.
Did you get that blue LJ from a guy named Rick?
-Eric
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Can't remember the guys name dI got the blue lj from. Bought in surrey british columbia. (canada eh) As for the sd22 diesel, it has a mechanical injection pump so no wiring woes. Put power to the glow plugs, power to the starter and wire in the alternator and you're ggood to go. Proabably around the same hp and torque numbers as the 1.9 td from volkswagon. But no fancy adapters etc. Rig your intermediate shaft to the nissan tranny and suzuki back half for the t-case. I moved my t-case back because this setup is longer than the stock 1.3 and tranny. But I now have lots of power to run 31's at highway speeds and not down to 3rd gear on hills.