ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: OneSHOT1337 on February 18, 2010, 02:52:15 PM
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Hi, I recently acquired a 1997 Sidekick Sport with the 1.8 liter engine. It has 170,000 miles on the car and it seems to only overheat during long idle.
I've installed a new temperature gauge, flushed the system, replaced thermostat, radiator cap, converted the clutch fan to electric, and pulled the water pump to inspect. The water pump looked like it had been replaced before and the fins of the impeller were all intact. I am not losing any coolant and there is not mixing of oil/coolant in either the oil or coolant. The radiator is not blocked.
I still get overheating after a long period of idle. The temp rises to 220 degrees before I shut off the car. If I rev the motor to 2000+rpm, the car cools down again to 190 degrees or lower. This must mean the pump is indeed good since more coolant is circulated but what can cause the overheating only at idle? Temps are around 150 and lower while driving.
I am beginning to think the radiator might be at fault but the fins look good. Top radiator hose is hot but lower hose is cool. Same thing with touching the front of the radiator, top is hot, bottom is significantly cooler.
Any suggestions on what to look for next?
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You might want to check the fan clutch.
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how long is a long idle? I had a kia sportage that would do that when it was low on oil for some weird reason. oddly, it never blew up.
its entirely possible that you have a blocked radiator, causing insufficient coolant flow at idle.
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Is that electric fan coming on when it's idleing? Does the fan move enough air to cool the engine?
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I had a 16" electric fan on the turbo Zuki, it wasn't up
to the task of keeping the engine cool, even at speed,
and that fan was supposed to work for a V8 engine.
When the engine is "hot" is the bottom of the radiator
still cool or is it hot also? if it's cool, you have a circulation
problem, if it's hot you have a blocked radiator or the fan
isn't working or not getting the air thru the radiator
Wild
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I had a 16" electric fan on the turbo Zuki, it wasn't up
to the task of keeping the engine cool, even at speed,
and that fan was supposed to work for a V8 engine.
I'd say your problem was not the fan, but the size/effiency of the radiator - with the vehicle in motion under "normal" driving conditions - the forward motion of the vehicle should provide sufficient airflow.
Almost all of the vehicles I have had over the years (except my GV) have had electric fans, and I know from experience that I can run with a failed fan switch in all but the heaviest of traffic without the engine temps climbing above normal.
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I went ahead and replaced the water pump with a new unit. The temps are staying cooler and will not rise above 220 degrees after letting it idle for over 10 minutes. I am hoping this is the end of the issues. Thanks
One thing I noticed is when bringing my idle to 1000rpm, the car runs significantly cooler...should this be a sign of poor circulation from the radiator? My idle speed is kinda low, around 300-500 rpm at idle, I was thinking of raising that so a slightly higher level. Anyone know how to adjust the idle speed?
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I went through 6 water pumps on my 97 1.8L. Every one of them spun the impeller on the drive shaft. It looked fine but would spin under a load. Mine did the same thing, it would cool down by revving it. I guess the pump would be OK at a higher speed but at idle it would not pump water. I finally drilled and tapped the impeller for a set screw that held it in place.
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It sounds like a good shear pin would be a very suitable fix as well if you were so inclined.
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I had a 16" electric fan on the turbo Zuki, it wasn't up
to the task of keeping the engine cool, even at speed,
and that fan was supposed to work for a V8 engine.
I'd say your problem was not the fan, but the size/effiency of the radiator - with the vehicle in motion under "normal" driving conditions - the forward motion of the vehicle should provide sufficient airflow.
Almost all of the vehicles I have had over the years (except my GV) have had electric fans, and I know from experience that I can run with a failed fan switch in all but the heaviest of traffic without the engine temps climbing above normal.
Naw, it was the intercooler, it just takes lots of power in a fan to
pull the air through both units. The factory fan worked perfectly
and I had no trouble after I put it back on
Wild
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I went through 6 water pumps on my 97 1.8L. Every one of them spun the impeller on the drive shaft. It looked fine but would spin under a load. Mine did the same thing, it would cool down by revving it. I guess the pump would be OK at a higher speed but at idle it would not pump water. I finally drilled and tapped the impeller for a set screw that held it in place.
Not a a bad idea at all! So far this car has been keeping cool with the new water pump but if I get another failure, I can definitely drill and press a pin into it.
One other thing that I have noticed is I am getting a gargling sound from behind the dash. Probably originating from the heater core. It only makes the sound when the engine is cold and literally sounds like a waterfall behind the dash.
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Check your coolant level, it's probably low
Wild
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I checked it before I started it up, maybe air? Ill check again tomorrow morning.
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One other thing that I have noticed is I am getting a gargling sound from behind the dash. Probably originating from the heater core. It only makes the sound when the engine is cold and literally sounds like a waterfall behind the dash.
This would be your heater core alright. odds are you have an air pocket in it, which contributes to the overheating issue. get it bled proper.
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Any suggestions on the best way to bleed? I dont think this motor has a bleed screw. I was thinking of jacking the front of the car up so all the air would rise to the radiator neck.
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Just check it when cold for a few days, and top off as needed
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I experienced some more overheating this morning. I noticed the top radiator hose was not pressurized while the reservoir was boiling over so I removed the top radiator hose and indeed it was dry. I assumed it was the thermostat so I pulled it out and did the stove top check on it. It opened up no problem. What could cause the top radiator hose to be bone dry? There seems to be a lack of flow but I have a new water pump on it and the thermostat functions?
I checked the coolant level before I left and it was full.
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Maybe the coolant boiled over enough to spill out and thats why the upper hose was dry?
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Ran a compression test on the motor.
1 - 180psi
2 - 115psi
3 - 175psi
4 - 140psi
I dropped some oil into cylinder 2 and compression jumped up to 270psi.
I assume its a failing piston ring but this should not cause the overheating problem. Any other suggestions? I'm about to pull this radiator out and have it tested.
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You could pull the thermostat and run the engine looking for
coolant flow, you might even remove the radiator and use a 5 gal
bucket to run the water into and out of to verify the flow of the
coolant, also try back flushing the system to make sure there isn't
something blocking the small coolant holes in the head gasket.
You have a real stumper there
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Sounds just like the problems I had. I'm telling you it is the water pump fins spinning on the shaft. You may also check the head gasket. Mine had a very slight leak which allowed an air pocket to develop blocking the flow.
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Sounds just like the problems I had. I'm telling you it is the water pump fins spinning on the shaft. You may also check the head gasket. Mine had a very slight leak which allowed an air pocket to develop blocking the flow.
I replaced the water pump already and the pump that I installed was of much better quality and build than the old one. It actually worked quite well and kept the car running at idle for almost 25 miinutes, never a tad over 195. However, After a few days I began seeing overheating on the freeway, which I have never seen since I've had this vehicle.
How did you check your head gasket? I've done head gaskets in the past and would like to avoid doing another but I'm afraid it might come to that.
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My bro-in-law has a head gasket leak kit. It has dye in it that changes color when exposed to exhaust gas. He checked it and it had a small leak. We changed it and it still ran hot. This was after 3 water pumps, 4 thermostats, 1 radiator, and 2 flushes. It turned out the water pump was still spinning in the shaft. I "fixed" the water pump finally and then removed the "guts" from the thermostat leaving only the ring and gasket. That kept it cool but heat was gone. I only drove it 6-8 miles one way so I never really worried about it.
Believe me I feel your pain. :( When I was going through this I was about ready to cover it in gas and watch her burn!!
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I can tell you from your compression numbers, its a headgasket.
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I can tell you from your compression numbers, its a headgasket.
I hope you don't mind if I ask - how so?
I can understand two adjacent cylinders being low pointing to a bad gasket (burned between the two), but in this case we have two low with a third high one in between and one of those two low ones comes up in wet test, suggesting it has bad rings (although that 270 sounds a little suspect - I think the upper limit for a J18 would be closer to 200).
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a head gasket does not necessarily fail between two cylinders, they also fail in ways allowing pressure loss externally, or into oil passages, which is entirely possible.
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I dont see how my compression numbers reflect a blown head gasket, they are not that low. The 114psi figure actually jumped to 125 after longer crank time.
I took my radiator to a reputable shop today and they told me that it had signs of clogging. They estimated 30% clogged and advised replacement or cleaning. I choose for them to clean it and hopefully this will help. I am also suspecting my heater core because if the radiator has clogging, I assume its a very real possibility the heater core does too. I will try to bypass it.
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something else that occured to me, you may have a valve or two out of spec on the tight side, letting it hang open and cause a loss of compression. I've seen/heard of similar issues on motorcycles, so its worth looking into this too.
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a head gasket does not necessarily fail between two cylinders, they also fail in ways allowing pressure loss externally, or into oil passages, which is entirely possible.
I'm not disputing that - what I'm asking is - what, in those compression numbers tells you it's the head gasket - rather than rings or valves.
By the way - unless I'm mistaken the SideKick Sport uses hydraulic lifters - which are not adjustable, chances of the valves being out of spec are not very high.