ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: Rally_T-115 on March 16, 2010, 10:01:21 PM
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Well I'm balls deep into replacing the clutch on my GV. Wasn't slipping at all, but if you had it in neutral (clutch out) and then push the clutch in and try to get it into gear, it's really hard. If I push on the shifter hard enough it'll go in but it feels like I'm scrubbing away brass as I shove it in. (I can feel two steps.) So, coming to red lights, I have to be sure to get it into 1st just as I'm coming to a stop and it'll drop in. The clutch pedal was also really stiff. I didn't notice it until I got my boss to take it around the block. Then last week I fired up my '88 Chrysler Daytona Shelby for the first time, it has a cable clutch and it was way easier to push down. So ya something's definitely up. Also on the GV, I have to rev-match all my shifts to get them to go in. Up and down. Miss 5th and you have to bring the revs up and it'll drop in. Sucks having to stand on that clutch pedal (literally) at long red lights. The point of engagement is like 1/4" off the floor. Sometimes I just stop the engine for a moment, pop it in gear, then fire it back up and go.
So finally enough is enough and I ordered a clutch kit from Carquest. I also ordered all three seals for my transfer case (one input, 2 output) - I have a fairly heavy leak out of my Tcase (fluid was down when I checked it before changing).
So first thing I discovered when I pulled the transmission shifter lever out of it's socket, is that the smallest shifter boot is torn all the way around. It's called "Boot No. 1" in the manuals. Small round boot about 2" in diameter, it fits directly onto the transmission and is held with a mini c/v boot clamp. The very same boot on the transfer case is torn as well. I called the dealer and they said that they can't get that boot separately, it comes with the whole shift lever, and the lever is, I think, a Hunnerd sumpin'-teen bucks and 2 days away. Dunno about the transfer case lever.
Boots No. 2 and 3 for both levers are still in very good shape on my GV. There's a lot of oil puddled all over the top of the transmission under where the shift lever goes in. So I think that boot may be a major contributor to my tranny fluid leak. As I said the transfer boot No.1 is ripped as well but there's no sign of any fluid leak there. I'm still worried about contamination though. Remember I like flying down gravel roads. ;)
Can anyone confirm that the only way to replace the boot is to replace the whole shift lever? If I have to, I will; but I was wondering if I have any other options.
Also while I'm here. I'm stuck. I'm sure I got every bolt but I can't get the trans to separate from the engine. I got 2 clutch slave bolts (14mm), 2 starter bolts (14mm) 2 flywheel coverplate bolts (10mm), 2 big nuts on the engine side (17mm) and 2 big bolts up high (17mm). There were also 2 14mm bolts that were bracing the manifocats to the trans bellhousing. I'm sure that's everything. The exhaust is dropped, crossmember is off, both driveshafts are out. Couldn't get my hands up or in to disconnect any sensors or hoses (well I got the speed sensor at least), I'll get those once the trans is down enough that I can get my hands in there. Anyways, the trans is stuck on the engine. The bottom 2 studs are free, it's moving if I pry the bellhousing against the upper oilpan. I can here "springy shrieky noises" from inside the bellhousing as I pry it. I can pry the bottom of the bellhousing out about 1/4" and it springs right back into position. So I think maybe the clutch plate is seized onto the input shaft. Well it would explain everything in the first paragraph of this post.
I gave up for the night, but Googling around I saw a guy with a '90 4Runner had kinda the same problem. He was replacing his trans anyway and he cut a window into his bellhousing so he could get a wrench in there to undo all the pressure plate bolts. On the GV there's a round hole at the very bottom that looks like it's perfect to fit a socket to access the pressure plate bolts. Didn't think of it at the time, but I'm gonna try that tomorrow.
Any other tips or ideas to tackle while I got the transmission and transfer case out of the car? The bushings where the shifter lever goes in are all in good shape. Top one is grungy from dirt but good. As I said I have a pretty good transfer case leak so I ordered new seals all around to stop it. The level in the transmission stayed up properly so I think it's ok, except for that Boot No.1 up top. I'll check my rear main seal as well, any other ideas? I don't really want to get into a rebuild, but things to check for?
Thanks for reading.
James
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First off, did you scope out the clutch master and slave cylinders as the problem area? That would be the most likely source of your disengagement issue and an easy fix.
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Yes. Both new. Long ago checked out.
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Then check the clutch release bearing ARM for signs of being bent, as well. ;)
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Yeah I was already going to check all that once it's out. Just did an Impreza wagon and the fork was bent and cracked.
Anyone know about the shifter boot? Gotta get the whole shifter or?
Thanks
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Call this fella' at S/W Suzuki. He'll know. ;)
Keith Sexton
Parts Manager
Phone 800-256-7933
ksexton|removethispart|@southwestautogroup.com
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Throwout bearing was siezed on the shaft thingy. Had to get my little hammer and some Thrust penetrant to break it free. It was gunked up with a kind of rusty mud. Used some carb cleaner and a shop rag to scrub the stuff off the shaft. There's no ridge.
Turns out the reason the trans was stuck was because there were two more bolts WAAAAY up top that I'd've never seen until I took the block of wood out from behind the intake. I let the whole thing hang down and then I could finally see them. One almost right at top center, the other a bit on the left side. Fortunately they weren't as stubborn as the next lower pair of bolts.
But if the clutch does sieze on the input shaft, or say the pilot bearing gets stuck on the shaft, you CAN undo all the pressure plate bolts through the little access hole in the bottom of the bell housing.
Now I just gotta figure out how the split off the transfer case so I can replace the seals. Trying to use engine cleaner and pressure wash it now but man all that old rustproofing just won't come off! :P
James
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The only way to get the boot is to buy the shifter - Keith doesn't have 'em because Suzuki doesn't sell 'em separately.
Now - if you're like me you draw the line at paying $250 for a shifter when all you need is the boot - so here's what you do - measure the neck of the case where the boot fits and go buy a generic steering rack boot, one where the narrow part of the concertina folds will be a close fit around the case neck.
Cut the boot a little long - lube the hole in the end of the boot with a little liquid soap and slip it c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y (you don't want to tear it now) over the shifter and install the shifter, trim the boot as required and then secure it with a tie-wrap.
Presto - you're done.
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YES!! Great idea. ;D "Boot No.2", the larger flat-ish thick rubber one that seals the hole in the floor, seems to be in very good shape and pliable, and is still on the shifter. I suppose what I could do is run some hot water over that boot to make it more pliable. Then lube up the shaft with something like caliper pin grease (stuff looks kinda like Vaseline, supposed to be safe for rubber), so I can slide it up off the shaft. Then do as you said with the piece of steering rack boot, and then slide the bigger boot back down over top. Ok great.
James
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I got my #2 off by sliding a thin screwdriver through the hole and working it around in a circular motion to stretch and ease the boot over the step in the lever - kind of the way you use a tire iron (not a lug wrench), to get a tire onto the rim. I don't know how successful you'll be, it kind of depends on how "supple" the rubber is - if it's the slightest bit cracked, it'll probably let go when you try to stretch it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_iron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_iron)
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Ohh man - this sounds like exactly what I went through a year ago.
My release bearing was pretty much toast as well. Also, the fingers on the clutch pressure plate had a nice ring on them from the release bearing that wouldn't turn. A new clutch kit with some cleaning fixed the issues. I also VERY lightly greased the surface that the release bearing rides on - the cast aluminum part in the trans end of things. How's your transmission sound? I also had to rebuild mine because of a bad bearing inside at the same time. There are some posts somewhere on here with some more info and a few pictures.
I assume you took the trans and t-case out as a unit. I did as well but separated them to put them back in. I think you could do it either way but I needed to rebuild the trans so I left them apart.
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Fordem yep I know exactly what you mean with the screwdriver, winter-summer tire change season is just heating up at work!
Frank! You have perfect timing. :laugh: I was actually going to PM you last night but I was a little tired and went for a nap, ended up passed out until 2am! :sleepy: Felt like a million bucks this morning.
My release bearing itself was ok - it still spun. But it was stuck tight on the shaft thing that it slides back and forth on when you push the pedal. It didn't want to move all the way forward when I pushed the pedal to the floor, that's why the pedal seemed so stiff. And then it wasn't releasing quite all the way either. It was releasing enough for the clutch not to slip, but before this started, if I was in neutral, foot off clutch in say a drive-thru, I could hear the "worn-ish" release bearing sound. Like a real fast "choo-choo train" sound. If I juuust pressed the clutch a bit, that noise would go away and when I let go would come back within 5 seconds. When this problem started happening it didn't make that noise anymore.
The fingers on the old clutch still looked fine. But I have seen others with the fingers worn shiny.
Yep I pulled it out as a unit. I finally got them powerwashed enough yesterday, plopped the whole thing on my workbench and split the t-case and trans. Finally found the source of the leak, the input seal on the t-case. While it's out I want to stop all leaks so I ordered all three seals for the t-case. I replaced the seals for the 2 driveshafts, but the seal I got for the t-case input was the wrong diameter (too small). Spent an hour on the phone today trying to find the right seal (and find one for the transmission output - might as well - it's a big fat thing) to no avail, ended up having to go with the Dealer. They think they found the right ones, and of course it's 2 days away. ::)
Frank I remember reading the topic with Pershingd from India who rebuild his trans. I've no intention to go that far unless I actually found something (I don't think my trans is making any noise... :-\ ) but somewhere I read about a "plug that falls out"??? There's a tiny (3/16"?) hole near the bottom of the trans that's hidden by the t-case, is that it?
Anyways I'm thinking about it, I emptied the t-case but the trans is still full of oil, it sounds like a good idea to leave them separated as I mount them back in - that's a huge unit when they're together - I'd be able to do it by hand at least!
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The big boot ripped. :(
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There was a plug that fell out on mine on the driver's side near the top. It was an unthreaded hole very roughly 3/8" diameter. If the plug is missing you'll be able to see through the hole and look the side of one of the chrome rails that the shifting mechanism rides on. It turned out to be the perfect size hole to tap for a brass plug - no drilling. If yours is missing I can dig up the info on the plug somewhere.
When you re-install everything in the vehicle I'd recommend putting the three shift forks into the neutral position then be careful to align the shift mechanism so it lines up with the forks. This needs to be done after installing the trans and t-case obviously, but it also should be done before bolting up the rearmount so you can lower the assembly for better access. There were some tough to reach bolts up top that you'll experience upon re-assembly that you didn't experience when you took things out since you're putting the trans and t-case in separately. Nothing impossible, but they weren't fun.
Hopefully you don't need a trans rebuild. I had two totally separate issues that manifested themselves at the same time. My release bearing was making noise but so was my trans. It was so bad that I had to shut the engine down to get it in gear sometimes.
Post up or PM if you need help. I've done 23k miles since the work about 18 months ago and all is well still - with the clutch and trans at least.
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Well here's an update... the biggest pain was waiting for the two seals that go between the transfer case and the transmission. Remember I said the dealer thought they found them? Well they arrived and the seals were WAAY off. Luckily though the guy that delivered them had a look at the old seals and then the dealer faxed me some diagrams and I was able to point out the exact ones I needed. FINALLY the proper seals arrived this morning.
During the time waiting I left the transfer and transmission in the back of the GV. I was just going to park it in the lot at work while waiting for the parts but my boss said I can leave the car inside overnight so the trans doesn't get stolen out of it one night for the metal. We'd just push it outside in the AM and then just before close push it back in for the night. It was becoming a real chore but it's looking like today was the last time we had to push it back into the shop! At first what I did was carry the trans and t-case in from the GV as we had no more jobs to do, but we were expecting a customer to show up within the hour. So I changed the seals on the workbench. Customer came but it was a quick easy job (headlight switch on a Jaguar), and right after we pushed in the GV hopefully for the last time.
Bolted the trans and t-case together and plopped it up onto the tranny jack (2 person job to lift it that high, that assembly is pretty heavy!) and strapped it down tight. I decided to put them in as an assembly because I didn't want to deal with fiddling with bolts in really tight places, I got the tranny jack anyway. Put in the clutch throwout bearing and fork with some grease at the contact points. I also extended the vent hose, mine was very short and was just sitting ontop of the bell housing.
The assembly installed into the car with practically no hassle at all... I have a custom exhaust system that I really didn't want to take apart so I just unbolted the custom Y-pipe from the manifocats and let it rest on the swaybar while waiting for the seals. I had to drop it down out of the way to shoehorn the assembly in there (too long to go straight-up and in). After raising the tranny jack, then adjusting the angle, then raising some more, adjusting some more, lowering the hoist a bit, and on and on, finally the angles lined up and the assembly latched onto the back of the engine with nearly ZERO difficulty. Really, even with the extra 4x4 stuff this went really smoothly. Reinstalled the rear driveshaft, bolted the exhaust back up, reinstalled the front driveshaft, etc., filled up the transfercase with the fluid I saved, and... wow...
I'm 96% done! I left my shifters at home because I didn't think I'd have it put together so fast. So all I have left to do is to put the center console back together. This evening I finished up with the shifters. Earlier in the week I got a couple steering rack boots and I soaked them in water from the kettle, that made them pliable enough to slide down over the shifters. Boot No.2, the big one that seals the hole in the floor on the transmission shifter, ripped when I took it off, but I fixed that tonight with a zip tie around the neck of the boot and a bicycle inner-tube repair kit. I'll bring them in to work tomorrow and I should be able to drive the car home tomorrow night!
Before going home today I started it up anyways and despite not having a shifter I can at least say the clutch pedal feels good....
James
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The tranny & t/case vent hose(s) should "T" together and go to a vent breather near the top of the firewall - if I recall correctly it attaches to a bracket on the back of the engine - it sounds like yours either pulled out when you were dropping the tranny, or else the top section is missing.
Open the jack storage space and look for the rear diff breather - it should have a little plastic vent cap on it - you should have three of those - the rear diff one that you're looking at, one for the combined tranny & T/case which should be on the back of the motor just right of center (right from the driver's perspective) and the third one is the front diff which should be alongside the radiator on the right.
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Re: the vent hoses. What I meant was all the parts were there, nothing got pulled apart or anything. The Tee was there, all 3 hoses connected, and the vent cap was on the end too, it's just that from the tee to the vent cap was like 4" at the most; and it was basically all just resting on the bellhousing. - I thought the vent was supposed to be up at the top of the firewall, so I just grabbed some 5/16" fuel hose and a hose connector and extended the vent line up behind the engine and zipped it to a bracket -- now I can wade through water as deep as my mirrors and my tranny won't drown. :laugh:
This morning I brought the two shifters in. Instead of pushing it out I just put the transmission lever in the hole and drove it out under it's own power. The other guys inside were really happy they didn't have to push again. ;D I left the transfer lever out so it was still in 4HI but the front hubs are unlocked anyways
Finished the job this evening, it's offically done. The steering rack bellows trick worked great. The transfer lever was a little harder to install because there was less clearance to pull the new "boot" up so I can get my fingers underneath to push the thingamabob down and turn to lock it in place. Had to use a screwdriver actually but I got it. New boot slipped over the top of the trans and t-case like it was made for it (after a bit more trimming with some scissors of course) and zip-tied in place. Cleaned the crumbs and crud out of the console and cupholders before putting it all back together. All I need to do now to perfect the job is to find two more of those little screws that go into the side of the console. I'd really like to get the center-console armrest thing too. :P
Drove it home tonight with no problems. Good to have my car back on the road! Big difference in the clutch feel. I can actually get it in gear from neutral at a dead stop now. The engagement point is higher now, a few times I was on the gas a hair too early but I'll get used to the new engagement point.
James
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It sounds like you put the tranny & t/case vent where it belongs - on a bracket alongside a big wiring harness connector.
About those screws at the side of the console - there are only four screws to hold the console - they fit in the front and back holes on each side - the two center holes, which I suspect may be the ones you're thinking of, don't take screws, there should be two plastic rivets that go there.
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Congrats on getting it all back together! I know the feeling of relief when everything is working right once again.