ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: 1HZ on March 30, 2010, 12:33:58 AM
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Hey guys just got a SJ413 WHOO HOO! :laugh:
Its a flat deck I gess long wheel base, 29 or 30 inch tractor grips >:D and its got a Nissan diesel 1600 motor in it.
I know these arnt standerd and was wondering if anyone had any info on it?
Shes a bit rusty in places (wheel gards , roof gutter, chassis that the deck sits on :o)
Im going to strip it down clean up the rust give it a bit of paint and shell be all good.
im going to trim the wheel gards, and trim the tray to better the depart angle.
So now for the important Questions ;)
Spring over Yay or Nay? i want to but what compartments are needed?(High steer,Ect)
If i do SOA with standed SJ Axles Tippy?
Or will i need HiLux Axles? how hard is this?
Body lifts? easy?
If i was going to put longer springs in it to get improved artlication and lift what should i use? And i have some Landcruiser and Toyota surf shockies can i put these in?
How much diff clearance does a SJ have on 31 inch tires in comparasion to hilux and landcruiser?
I need traction ;D And without the cost so the plan is to weld one of the diffs together so it is permantly locked should i do the back will it affect steering or the front so i can use the manual hubs to switch them in and out? but steering will be affected when in 4WD.
Thanks.
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For extra stability you can go to Samurai axles but you need to move the axle perches out. For 31s I would consider moving the front axle forward a lttle and going for a virtual lift with maybe a small spring lift. You shouldn't have any clearance problems in the rear.
Something to watch out fot is that the rear springs are a bit longer (10mm) on the LWB models.
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cool man but im looking to spend as less money as possible its just a farm hack :)
the main Q is will a SPOA require a high steer? its only lifting it 2-3 in because of small axles.
I have the oppertunity of getting a 410 are the parts interchangeable? (the hub on my SJ413 is leaking :'() What about the axles are they wider or have different gearing?
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410 and 413 axles are different, the 410 diff is much smaller, I'm not sure about thehubs, early 410s had drum brakes, later ones will probably swap. The 410 tcase can be made to fit and has lower gearing, not much else is interchangeable.
SPOA will give you 4-6" of lift and could be a bit tippy on the narrow axles, you will need some sort of stering linkage, if its not being use don the road a Z-bar should suffice.
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Hubs are the same. If you have the disk brake's in front they will swap straight across for the Samurai axles, just about everything will swap over on the knuckles.
One thing to be careful of is that the springs are 3" closer together, so when you swap axles you will need to weld on new spring pads.
Depending on the year of the SJ-410 the transfer case is the same, just the gears are different. Older SJ-410's have a smooth aluminum t-case, same gears internally but you can't use a lower gear kit. They are 10% lower then the stock Samurai T-Case gears in both high and low range so just perfect for swapping on some 235/75 tires and keeping your ratio the same. You also get the drum e-brake on the back. Body panels are the same, dash is different though. Plus the SJ-410 has the flip forward passenger seat frame. Engine is 970cc with a side draft carb, transmission is a 4 speed.
My recommendation, pull the passenger seat frame off of the SJ-410 if you want it and the t-case. The e-brake on the tcase will bolt onto a Sammy t-case without issues and allows you to do a rear disk brake conversion without having to worry about the e-brake. Plus you can use the SJ-410 t-case to run the bigger tires until you decide to drop lower gears in the Sammy t-case. :)
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Thanks for the info guys.
Please explane the Z Bar ??? I have a kind of idea about it.
And please help with my first Questions.
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there is no such thing as a cheap lift.
I've got a 413K like yours and since the local law doesn't like home made lifts I ended up taking out the SOA that was done with samurai axles.
I'm running 413K axles with 512 gears, locked and running 30" BFG muds....no lift other than the revolver shakles (might give 1"). I'm finding the 512 way to slow for the road. You can trust me when I say that this thing will go anywhere I want to go...I don't do mud or rock so it all depends on the terrain. We do offroad touring with washouts and tight trails.
I'm swapping out the 413K's for the 410's. You can bolt on the 413 outers to give you all the good brakes (disc) and access to more parts. THe 410's come with 411 gears and if that is too high then I can drop in some 456 LJ80 gears to slow me down.
You'll need a steering fix to make it right and strongly recommended for the width. The 413K has a narrow stance with the perches close together so all the width will be worth the time. You also need to add brake lines and fix the shocks. The stock 413K has 393 gears so if you swap out for the 413's then you'll have to swap the gears too. 462=31-33's 512=33-35's
If it'' legal then go for the SOA, Add a heavy ply to all 4 corners and get some good arch in that ply or the whole pack. Put in the 462/512 gears, crossover steering, brake lines and probably a traction bar....then you'll have a nice drive with a good rig but it will cost money.
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Spring over Yay or Nay? i want to but what compartments are needed?(High steer,Ect)
If i do SOA with standed SJ Axles Tippy?
I like my SPOA, works well. Tippy is not an issue, ran 3.5" backspacing on the wheels with 33" tires but I did destroy a couple of rear springs. You can read a write-up of doing a spoa yourself at http://zukiworld.com/forum/general-suzuki-forum/basic-spoa-on-a-lwb-sj-413-using-stock-parts/ (http://zukiworld.com/forum/general-suzuki-forum/basic-spoa-on-a-lwb-sj-413-using-stock-parts/) Like zukimoo said though, there is no such thing as cheap lift. I would go with all of his suggestions of gears, traction bar, cross over steering and brake lines.
Or will i need HiLux Axles? how hard is this?
Depends, do you want to spend money or do it yourself? Plenty of people do the Toyota axle swap, works great. Wider, heavier duty, but you will need adapters or modified drive shafts. And it will require re-doing all of the suspension mounts on the Toyota axles. My opinion, only do it if really need to or if they are cheap. You can get chromoly axles front and rear now for the SJ-413, that should be good enough for 35" tires unless you drop a bigger motor in.
Body lifts? easy?
Depends on what you call Easy. I'm not a fan of them myself, but there are arguments both way. You can do some searches and find what people have to say. If the bolts aren't rusted shut it should only take a few hours to put a 1" body lift on for a bit of extra clearance.
If i was going to put longer springs in it to get improved artlication and lift what should i use?
YJ springs are a common swap, as are using front CJ springs in the rear and rear springs up front. Both require modification and some fabrication work.
And i have some Landcruiser and Toyota surf shockies can i put these in?
Anything can be made to work I use front shocks from a Ford F-250 on mine. Once again, just depends on your fabrication skills and how much time/money you want to spend on it.
How much diff clearance does a SJ have on 31 inch tires in comparasion to hilux and landcruiser?
With stock axles probably an inch or two. underneath the pumpkin.
I need traction ;D And without the cost so the plan is to weld one of the diffs together so it is permantly locked should i do the back will it affect steering or the front so i can use the manual hubs to switch them in and out? but steering will be affected when in 4WD.
I recommend reading the Locker Faq that was made a while back at http://zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-beginner-repair/merged-'lockers-the-best-but-most-'-and-'mini-spool-vs-locker-'/ (http://zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-beginner-repair/merged-'lockers-the-best-but-most-'-and-'mini-spool-vs-locker-'/) it should cover most of your questions.
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This is not for a road car its for a off road rig that can go anywhere
And i am able to change mounts and such for shocks and springs so thats all good
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Would a shackle reversal be a good investment in time?
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One of the main advantages of a shackle reversal is the improvement in on-road handling. Some other that have done the mod should be able to chime in and let you know how it handles.
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looked at my landcruiser shocks compared to the shocks in the zuk today they are wayyy to big :o
They would be perfect for spring over tho ::)
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How hard is it to do a 2in body lift? ??? i can see the 6 mounts i need to change.
what parts will i need and what will need to be changed like the gear leaver and 4WD leaver?
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Are 410 and 413 diff ratios the same?
im thinking of welding the rear and if it doenst work out chucking a 410 diff in but in sure there different ratios...........
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The SJ-410 has 4.10 gears instead of the 3.89. The diff is also a different size and the axles have a different spline. There isn't anything you can really swap between them.
Your spring pads are also 1.5" further inboard on both sides, so if you want to swap to Sammurai (SJ-413) axles you will need to re-weld the spring pads.
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Will my leavers need modifactaions for a 2 in body lift?
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For a 2" body lift, I do not believe so. Most of the kits do not come with them. You can check out Sky Manufacturing's, they have instructions on the site:
http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/new/detaproduct.php?id=105 (http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/new/detaproduct.php?id=105)
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More questions >:D
Im puting some 2in lifted springs next weekend and was thinking about moveing the axle forwerd about a inch, Easy? Yes? No? How??
And what about fiddle breaks to stop one wheel to get traction to the other wheel?
And does calamini make a mini spool?
haha thanks.
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Trail Tough makes a mini spool, but don't put it on a rig you drive down the road on a regular basis with. Trail rig only.
For sliding the front axle forward you want to do a RUF conversion, or rear springs up front. Since you are putting lift springs on then I wouldn't bother. :D
Your thinking of cutting brakes. I would put a locker in back instead.
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Drone are you the only person on this website? ;)
Went for a drive today and the thing is wicked it can go almost anywhere.
Once i get new springs im thinking spool or welded in rear (rear has no weight at all so auto lokka would be harsh) and a auto lokka in the front.
sound good?
And this is definitely a trail/bush rig.
For a RUF can the springs just bolt stright on or does the shackels need lenghtend or modified? Or will i need to move the mounts?
Peace.
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Fiddle brakes are pretty harsh on the cables, they work OK on very light trials cars but most people who have tried them on Zuks have found that the handbrake cables stretch after a very short time.
You can move the axle forward by redrilling the spring pack or modifying the clamp plate, if you do go RUF then you will need longer shackles or relocated front mounts.
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What do you guys think about my lokka idea?
If i did a RUF with longer shackles and put new 2in lifted springs in the rear would it be level and would the flex be better than normal 2in lifted springs in the front?
(at the moment there is no flex at all there is a wheel constantly off the ground.)
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You shouldn't need to lift the rear to match if you do the RUF, but remember to pull out the overload spring or your ride will be to harsh.
Flex is much better, especially if you go with a folding shackle in the front. You will need to remount your shocks and should pick up some new brake lines. I put on brake lines from the front of a Geo Tracker/Suzuki Sidekick on to soak up the extra travel.
On a side note, cutting/fiddle brakes and spools don't work together. I've had a brake go out on the drivers side in the back and just pinched the line, the other brake stopped me just fine for the rest of the competition.
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cant get a spool so will have to get out the welder :o
anyone got any pics of how to weld it?
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Links to welded diffs?
whats different between welding the carryer up or this? http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=27773 (http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=27773)
how does this work whats better whats stronger?
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The idea behind the Fozzy locker is that it will move a bit. Like all things, some people like them and others don't. Myself, I like the security if knowing I have a cast piece of metal in there and not having to worry about welds breaking and getting metal bits in my gears.
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Quick Anser needed guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I picked up these
http://www.4wdstuff.co.nz/files/suzukifrontsprings.jpg (http://www.4wdstuff.co.nz/files/suzukifrontsprings.jpg)
And
http://www.4wdstuff.co.nz/files/suzukirearsprings.jpg (http://www.4wdstuff.co.nz/files/suzukirearsprings.jpg)
Tryed putting the front in today and they where lower than stock??????? WTF
They just bent under the weight
The eyes on the front springs are under the the springs like the ones in the pics the stock ones are on top ??????????
i put the rear in the front and they where too long
HELP PLEASE
I was told they Work in LWB But i dont know?
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There shouldn't be an problems with the front, contact the supplier it sounds like they messed up. The rear springs on a LWB are slightly longer than on the SWB but the SWB springs usually fit.
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I put the lifted springs in the rear and it did nothing :)
then put some leaves from the old rear pack into the old front pack ;)
It worked a treat 8)
now getting ready to weld my rear axle
it may sound stupid but do i need shocks in the front i got mean flex without them
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Strictly speaking they are not shock absorbers but dampers, they stop the springs from bouncing out of control so you will need them.
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I like my SPOA, works well. Tippy is not an issue,
LOL tippy is not a issue with spring over..............
I rolled the sj413 spring under........
Its wreaked. it was really tippy..............
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My '82 has a 4" SPOA (that I installed 10 years ago) and have never felt tippy at all. Depends on the driver.