ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Samurai_Hamster on July 05, 2004, 10:48:12 AM
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nothing.
I got the tech to take a ride with me and we only got a slight hint of spark knock, not enough to make a person stop and ask "What the heck is that?"
Pretty disappointing to say the least.
THe other interesting part is the Suzuki scan tool. This is not a generic code reader but rather a sophisticated piece of magic that allows the user to monitor the actual inputs going to the PCM. I won't go into the boring details here but we had it hooked up while I drove and also at idle, back on the dealer lot. I was allowed to run through the screens while referencing a PDF of the FSM that shows the allowed values for each device. In particular, I keyed on the TPS and the EGR functions on the tool. Both of those were in spec. So was the timing both at idle and 2500 RPM. So there goes my theory about the TPS being hosed in some fashion. This thing also shows actual engine temp, batt voltage, EVAP duty cycles and more. It was very interesting to say the least. WHen you want to capture some data for download and printout, you "freeze frame" the unit captures the data to be downloaded. if you hit the RWD switch, it will show "electrical load" being placed on the engine (Oddly, it does not see the DRM as being an electrical load). If you hit the AC, it will tell you the AC is on.
ALl in all, it told us a lot about a normally functioning engine! It did not tell us anything that raised a red flag about the spark knock.
Status:
Tech and service writer will be talking to ASMC to dig further on this perhaps a TSB or another guy saying "Yeah I had that on XXXXX and here's what I did to fix it". Its a long shot, but what else do I have?
Next, I will see what they come back with. If they want to do some sort of fix, I am down with that. If they come back and say "run 89 or 94 octane" then I will disagree of course. To me, that's a band aid fix. I find it very hard to believe that Suzuki would manufacture a vehicle that cannot run on commonly found pump gas. Otherwise, thousands of zuke owners would be bitching up a storm.
If option 2 is all that I can get from ASMC and the dealer, then I will begin the process of getting rid of this rig and getting another vehicle, probably a Toyota Corolla at this point. It makes no sense to make a $300/month payment on a vehicle that is going to be a problem child. And with the severity of spark knock, its only a matter of time before I blow a hole in a piston or burn the valves. Either of which is expensive to replace.
Stay tuned.
FWIW......the dealer was good, the new place. They just could not fully duplicate the issue and were at just as much a loss as I was with a reason for the knock.
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It sounds like you have had this problem for a while, have you tried a different brand of gas, not just the cheapest avalable? I know in this time of high prices it is easier said than done, but it could be just the additives that particular brand has. How many miles on it? have you replaced plugs yet? An incorrect heat range spark plug will do that. Just throwing out ideas.... :-/
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1. Yes
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
;D
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THe other interesting part is the Suzuki scan tool.  This is not a generic code reader but rather a sophisticated piece of magic that allows the user to monitor the actual inputs going to the PCM.  I won't go into the boring details here but we had it hooked up while I drove and also at idle, back on the dealer lot.  I was allowed to run through the screens while referencing a PDF of the FSM that shows the allowed values for each device.  In particular, I keyed on the TPS and the EGR functions on the tool. Both of those were in spec.  So was the timing both at idle and 2500 RPM.  So there goes my theory about the TPS being hosed in some fashion.  This thing also shows actual engine temp, batt voltage, EVAP duty cycles and more.  It was very interesting to say the least.  WHen you want to capture some data for download and printout, you "freeze frame" the unit captures the data to be downloaded.  if you hit the RWD switch, it will show "electrical load" being placed on the engine (Oddly, it does not see the DRM as being an electrical load).  If you hit the AC, it will tell you the AC is on.
That's all generic OBD2 data.  A generic scan tool will do all that if you get one that supports it (they aren't cheap tho).  The inexpensive ones just pull and reset codes.
I find it very hard to believe that Suzuki would manufacture a vehicle that cannot run on commonly found pump gas.
They actually specify in the manual to run ONLY regular unleaded to "avoid engine damage", at least in the Sidekick owners manual.
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If you are convinced it's a spark
knock, try a set of cold plugs, like
3 or 4 ranges lower than what you
have, but don't fork over $$ for
Platinum plugs until you find the
one that works for you, just try
some cheep regular plugs for now
Wild
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No contact from the dealer or zuke at this point. Maybe they are still "collating" data?
???
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Two questions, hamster man.  One, why do you call yourself SAMURAI hamster when you clearly have a cheese-wagon base Vitara(which you pay $300/mo. for? ;D)  Two, why did you join a Suzuki ENTHUSIAST website if you do nothing but call them junk and spout off about giving it up for one of the worlds most bland sell out cars...a Corolla >:(.  Anyway, you seem to know a bit about your zuk, so I beg of you, for your own good and everyone else's, use said knowledge to mod your ride and go have some fun with it.  Instead of using it to find problems to complain about.  Moral of the story, way more zukin, way less torturing the service department at your Suzuki dealer. ÂÂ
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Note to lawdog:
When you want to begin making the payments, inspection, plates, insurance and gas, then and ONLY then do you ever tell me what I can and cannot say about my rig. Got that?
I don't know who the f*** you are or what you are even doing here but be grateful you are miles away behind a computer. Otherwise, had you spouted that crap to my face, I promise you beyond the shadow of a doubt, that I would kick the living shit out of you to teach you a lesson you'd never soon forget.
Got it?
Good.
now go hassle someone else before I get really angry.
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Law Dog... take a look at something:
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/otherpics/posts.jpg)
Have you looked at all 700 some posts by Samurai Hamster before you made your comments? Heck, he's even got more posts than me! :o
And while I like mudding too... that's still not the greatest first post to a forum. Coulda worked on Pirate, but not here.
Heather
;D
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Two questions, hamster man.  One, why do you call yourself SAMURAI hamster when you clearly have a cheese-wagon base Vitara(which you pay $300/mo. for? ;D)  Two, why did you join a Suzuki ENTHUSIAST website if you do nothing but call them junk and spout off about giving it up for one of the worlds most bland sell out cars...a Corolla >:(.  Anyway, you seem to know a bit about your zuk, so I beg of you, for your own good and everyone else's, use said knowledge to mod your ride and go have some fun with it.  Instead of using it to find problems to complain about.  Moral of the story, way more zukin, way less torturing the service department at your Suzuki dealer. ÂÂ
I would almost swear that this was another TITAN spouting off...I'm with hcgalvin and I back samurai_hamster 110% ,so if you can't say something nice here then keep your comments to yourself. ÂÂ
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If you are convinced it's a spark
knock, try a set of cold plugs, like
3 or 4 ranges lower than what you
have, but don't fork over $$ for
Platinum plugs until you find the
one that works for you, just try
some cheep regular plugs for now
Wild
Wild, I thought about your idea all week and time permitting tomorrow, I'm gonna toss in a set of Autolites and see where it gets me. I figure less than 10 bucks to experiment is worth it.
the OEM plug is an NGK IFR5J11.......iridium no less and these babies are expensive. Like over 10 bucks per plug.
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I would almost swear that this was another TITAN spouting off...I'm with hcgalvin and I back samurai_hamster 110% ,so if you can't say something nice here then keep your comments to yourself.
I would've thought this was another account of TITAN's, however the spelling and grammar is nearly comprehensible, so that disqualifies him. This is a brand new moron.
Who doesn't complain with there's something wrong with their vehicle?
I agree with everyone elses comments about your conduct, LawDog. Either say something constructive or GTFO.
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Hmmmm, I'm confused...why does everyone jump on the guy who says to stop fussing and go muddin, and defend the guy who says he's gonna give up his zuk for a Corolla.  Hamster, my stance remains the same, mellow out and enjoy your rig.  To everyone, I may be new to the website but I'm not new to cars.  In fact, the reason I was so harsh on hampter is I'm on the other side of the coin day in and day out.  Don't come in to a dealership and act like they owe you the world because your car is making a noise that doesn't even reproduce when the tech is accomodating enough to go for a drive with you.  And I notice that after initial reply you proceeded to, after idly threatening me, you conceeded that instead of waiting for the dealer to tell you what to do and then tell them they were wrong, you would try his cold plug idea after all.  So even though you took offense to my reply, a little light went on somewhere too, didn't it?
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Hmmmm, I'm confused...why does everyone jump on the guy who says to stop fussing and go muddin, and defend the guy who says he's gonna give up his zuk for a Corolla.  Hamster, my stance remains the same, mellow out and enjoy your rig.  To everyone, I may be new to the website but I'm not new to cars.  In fact, the reason I was so harsh on hampter is I'm on the other side of the coin day in and day out.  Don't come in to a dealership and act like they owe you the world because your car is making a noise that doesn't even reproduce when the tech is accomodating enough to go for a drive with you.  And I notice that after initial reply you proceeded to, after idly threatening me, you conceeded that instead of waiting for the dealer to tell you what to do and then tell them they were wrong, you would try his cold plug idea after all.  So even though you took offense to my reply, a little light went on somewhere too, didn't it?
sigh....i love that "just because im new u pick on me thing" u insulted him..he is a good member of this board so YES u will get jumped on..same goes for anyother pearson being such a prick
2nd the dealer does OWE him...10yr 100kmiles (whatever the warrenty is) so whatever goes wrong is on the stealer...what u fail to understand is that if people dont buy cars the dealers are outa buisness so customer relations SHOULD be top on there list..evidently making money is on the top which doesnt make much sense
also before u flame me..my father a few years ago worked for the biggest ford dealership in cali Hayward ford..that was also my first job and i worked there a LONG time..my dad has worked 30+ years in large dealerships i have been exposed to them my entire life..so i am on a first name go to the ball game kinda relationship with the headchesemos of ford and there associates always have been...so i dont just go making wild acusations ;D
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And I notice that after initial reply you proceeded to, after idly threatening me, you conceeded that instead of waiting for the dealer to tell you what to do and then tell them they were wrong, you would try his cold plug idea after all.  So even though you took offense to my reply, a little light went on somewhere too, didn't it?
What make you think it's idly threatening you all we here suggested to you is if you cannot say anything nice here don't say anything at all... And since it doesn't pretain to a technical answer to a technical question then button your lip!
sigh....i love that "just because im new u pick on me thing" u insulted him..he is a good member of this board so YES u will get jumped on..same goes for anyother pearson being such a prick
Kudos to Mike71 he couldn't have said it any better.  ;D
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Heck, he's even got more posts than me!  :o
Heather
;D
gesh after i read that i looked at my posts....sigh i need to get a life lol
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gesh after i read that i looked at my posts....sigh i need to get a life lol
We do! ZUKES!
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......cheese-wagon base Vitara....ÂÂ
What's a cheese-wagon? Do I own one too?
Heather
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/otherpics/flexy.jpg)
;D
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a chese wagon is that thing on t-giving that sits in the middle of the table and has gravy in it =) lol
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Ok, on a lighter note Heather:  that is far from a cheese-wagon.  Mike:  Yes the cheese-wagon is attached to the gravy train, in one way or another... ÂÂ
2nd the dealer does OWE him...10yr 100kmiles (whatever the warrenty is) so whatever goes wrong is on the stealer...what u fail to understand is that if people dont buy cars the dealers are outa buisness so customer relations SHOULD be top on there list..evidently making money is on the top which doesnt make much sense
.  I never said the dealer doesn't need to fix the problem.  But the attitude that hamster takes toward the situation is poor.  It's not a lemon, no need for a new car.  The problem wouldn't reproduce under normal driving conditions so it's more than likely less serious than he makes out. Those guys are just doing their job, they didn't make the car knock, they're there to help.  I didn't mean to insult hamster himself, just criticize his attitude.  I did insult his ride in anger because his post offended ME, so let him be offended.  And I'm not saying that I'm being ganged up on because I'm new.  I'm just saying my opinion shouldn't be disregarded because I'm new.  CZ:  I don't know who the f*** you are or what you are even doing here but be grateful you are miles away behind a computer.  Otherwise, had you spouted that crap to my face, I promise you beyond the shadow of a doubt, that I would kick the living shit out of you to teach you a lesson you'd never soon forget.
--Idle threats, but who cares, everybody gets pissed and wants to kick someone's ass sometimes. So hamster:  they'll fix your car if their a reputable business, just work with them.  Take what I said however you will, but it was just meant as a firm message to chill out and take a better outlook on your ride(with a not so subtle undertone of hostility I guess). ÂÂ
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Well, I had no intention of responding to your nonsense but there's one piece in your rag tag collection of words that needs to be noted:
anger because his post offended ME
.
Did I miss something here? What about my posts offended you? I am beginning to think you are a bored soul who has nothing better to do than troll BBS boards looking for an axe to grind.
Kiddo, lets set the record straight here before you piss off the moderator and he yanks your ass off here.
....I've forgotten more about my rig and what makes it run than you'll ever know. So stop pretending.
.....What part of 3/36K warranty is so difficult for you to understand?
.....Are you gonna step up and make the payments? If so I am waiting. Then you can tell me how to go about fixing my rig.
.....Dealer did in fact suggest a colder range of plug if I wanted to schedule an appointment and PAY them for installing the plugs. See #2 above.
.....Fact. Vehicle did not do this when new or even at 15K or 20K. Now it is. Does that indicate a problem to you? Now, if it performed like this from day one, then you MIGHT have a point here. Fact remains, it didn't and that tells me that is a problem. Now if you'd like to donate funds to pay for repairs, I'm all for that. Since you have yet to back up anything you say, I take your crap with a grain of salt.
......Fact. You've made enemies here. You've been told to button it up or get lost. You obviously are a product of 21st century education since reading comprehension is not your forte. Because if it were, you'd back off right now and mind your own business.
Do you get it yet? I hope so because I am willing to bet the moderator is pretty close to kicking you out. I would.
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Geeze Louise!!!!! ::) I decide to take one day off trying to get my sleeping clock back onto days from working nights, and here I am at 1:05 am wide awake, ice cold brew in hand reading all this!!!
First, I've been a member of Samari Hamsters Yahoo group for a year, I know that I don't post much here, but I'm in here everyday reading and at many times learning something new, Samari Hamster is a good guy, and he's been going through a really rough time with his situation with his ride, (if you read his posts you'd know that already ;D)
And now as for this cheese wagon nonesence, I got pretty much the same ride as him, and like him, I'm making payments on mine, plus the insurance, (here in Jersey it's well, you know :o) not to mention the mortgage, wife and kids, and everything else. I'd love to be able to lift it, get bigger meats, etc. etc. but you see, here in the real world where people like Samari Hampster and I live in, we have obligations, and we fullfill them.
Alright, got that small amount of input off my chest. Been meaning to post to you to say just hang in there, and hopefully something will work out, knocking is not a good thing, that's an indication that the pistons want out. ;D Hope you get things sorted with your ride.
And mister Newbie, why don't you just chilll out, sit back, watch, and maybey you'll learn something too. ::)
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Thank you for the comment on reading comprehension Hamster. Good job opening your statement with a disclaimer--I had no intention of responding but...but you did. and therefore everything after that you say loses credibility. But your right about one thing, time to forget about this little incident, cut bait and move on. What color Corolla are you getting?
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Thank you for the comment on reading comprehension Hamster.  Good job opening your statement with a disclaimer--I had no intention of responding but...but you did.  and therefore everything after that you say loses credibility.  But your right about one thing, time to forget about this little incident, cut bait and move on.  What color Corolla are you getting?
Still haven't grown a brain have you?
Request to moderator, since this clown has nothing to offer but antagonisms, I hereby request that he be removed from this forum. He offers nothing but headaches.
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i 2nd the removal...or atleased a good stern warning
ur first 10 posts flamming people (dont care who it is..just the fact that u turned this post into something worthy of pirate) is not a good sign
to me u are not welcome here
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Must be in the air today.
*love&peace*
~Nate
8)
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Still haven't grown a brain have you?
Request to moderator, since this clown has nothing to offer but antagonisms, I hereby request that he be removed from this forum.  He offers nothing but headaches.
I thrird this motion. Things were swell here until Lawdog showed up.
Either shut up and contribute something useful to this forum or take a hike. >:(
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I'm with Natebert... ;D
BTW LawDog...you're welcome here in my books :)
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Well I can see this is going to be little more than a pissing match.
I'm also a little more than disappointed that there are two who think this lawdog should stay around. That's their opinion, they're entitled to it. More power to 'em.
Nevertheless this will be my last post here. Effective immediately, I will delete my profile and move on. If I cannot delete it myself, then I ask the moderator to do so.
In that respect, lawdog is correct (never thought I would agree with him though). Life is far too short and I am much too busy to play BBS games with a troll. I do have better things to do. Like getting my rig figured out. Fishing, planning for upcoming hunting season, learning a UNIX based POS (point of sale, not sh*t) system. Travelling this fall to GA and FL. Seeing Tom Knapp exhibition shows.
Personally, I feel lawdog has contributed zilch to this forum and even less to this thread. What his problem is I don't know and don't really care.
Moving on, I wish to say thanks to those who offered advice here, to those who chatted with me. Wish I could have made the melt, time constraints prevented me from doing so.
Good luck to all the sensible zuke guys and gals. You know who you are. ;)
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Hey guys. I'm not 'siding' with anybody.
There are no 'sides'. I'm just saying;
Can't we all just get along.
~Nate
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:'( :'( :'(i vote for lawdog leaving and The Hamster coming back!
:'(stu :'(
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Sam Ham, I'm sorry to see you go, brother. E-mail me sometime, at shotbaker1946|removethispart|@hotmail.com. If you ever decide to take a trip to The Great White North, especially the Toronto area, call me at 647.224.2619 and we can hang out. Take it easy brother, you will be missed. :(
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Man, what a thread. Hamster, we feel your pain man. Making payments on a rig that's not running right is no fun but don't let this guy run you off cause he doesn't have any manners and definitely doesn't know your situation. This is the best online community out there, we take care of our own. Mr "LawDog" will quickly do himself in and join "Titan" on the do not call list.
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yo samurai hamster,
don't let this guy be the straw that broke your back, it aint worth it. we all feel your pain, your suffering from a hamster flu ;)
as i see it you have everyones respect in the group, and lawdog has a bit of growing up to earn his. besides we want to see the day yours is lifted 6" with 35" mudders ;D it wouldn't be the same with out you, teasing mike and all ;)
my 2 cents worth :)
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LawDog's Threads he might post will be ignored by me... We lost a good online friend Samurai_Hamster. And it's ashame the world is filled with jerks like LawDog.
All thoughs who miss (Samurai_Hamster) please send Eric a private message about this atrocity.
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I would hate to see him leave over this. I'm sure once Hamster gets his Zook fixed he'll be back. Its depressing to buy a new car to avoid having problems with old ones and have those problems to deal with.
Just earlier this year I bought a newer truck (2000 Dodge) and two weeks later the tranny falls apart. :-[
Luckie I bought a warrenty and they covered for a new Tranny.
Hope to see ya later Samurai_Hamster ;D
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I would hate to see him leave over this. I'm sure once Hamster gets his Zook fixed he'll be back. Its depressing to buy a new car to avoid having problems with old ones and have those problems to deal with.
Just earlier this year I bought a newer truck (2000 Dodge) and two weeks later the tranny falls apart. :-[
Luckie I bought a warrenty and they covered for a new Tranny.
Hope to see ya later Samurai_Hamster ;D
On a completely unrelated not: HotRod, those fenderflares make your rig look smaller for some reason :-/