ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: bentparts on May 08, 2010, 03:56:55 PM
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I picked up a new HF tow bar, never used, on craigslist for $35. Aside from strengthening the bolt points where I'm going weld in a solid block, bored to fit a shouldered bolt, into the arms themselves, I'm trying to figure out the best way to attach the mounting points to the Tracker. I have a steel Calmini bumper on the front which already has it's mounts WELDED to the frame. (I didn't like the look of those two 10 mm bolts holding it on.) I was thinking I could kill two birds with one stone so to speak, and weld the tow bar brackets directly to the front of the Calmini bumper, and also be able to use them as pull points when the tow bar is off. even though I never get stuck, uhh.... Opinions please, and any other suggestions on beefing up this el cheapo tow bar, other than welding everything together rather than just bolting it up.
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I also use a cheap towbar and have towed a lot with it with no problems. I made my mounts and used square tubing and welded it inside the opening of the front frame rail. I then took two old ball mounts [part that slides in hitch] sawed them off so I could slide them inside of the square tubing, drilled a hole to pin them in and welded the tow bar mounts to them. Then I can just pull a pin and slide the mounts out and you can't see any mount at the front. I have a stock front bumper but if I had a steel front bumper I think I would pull off of it. A Friend of mine has a Calmini bumper which has tow bar mounts on and he had problems at first with the mounting of the bumper slipping. it kept tilting the bumper up. I think he added some bracing to straighten out the problem.
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Thanks gearjam, after taking another look at the whole thing, I'm going to weld the mounts directly to the frame right above where the frame box tube extends from the front. this will keep the tow bar level with the hitch point too, and I think it'll be stronger.
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bentparts, check out what I did.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-beginner-repair/1990-tracker-tintop-build/90/ (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/technical-discussion-beginner-repair/1990-tracker-tintop-build/90/)
Top post of 7th page with all the pics. I posted that back when I did my mounts. Welded/gusseted a full crossbar to the front of the frame box (like a crossmember) directly below my steel bumper, and then welded the mounts to that. I have a HF towbar, too, I think, but a really large one. I know you have a different bumper, but I wonder if it would give you some insight.
HTH
DJ
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Thanks DJ, looks pretty stout, good looking rig too! I'm just wondering why I would need to weld in the cross bar, since we both have Calmini's frame brace anyway? I could save some weight just by welding the mounts to the same points. think their too weak? BTW, I've got the same tow bar.
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Actually I remember why we added the crossbar anyways...we needed to have the mounts out away from the frame 1-1/2" or 2" for the mounts to clear my Trail Tough bumper. We needed to add some sort of spacer, so the best idea at the time was to add a whole crossbar.
Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to hinge the towbar upwards, and I don't think it would have even fit below the bumper if the brackets were tied directly to the frame.
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I've been looking and measuring and it looks like with my Calmini bumber I should have plenty of clearence to weld the brackest right to the frame.
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Is there any reason you don't want to weld them to the bumper? (I assume it's the kick winch bumper)?
your bumper may be stronger than the frame, might also help to distribute forces/load.
I had mine directly on the Calmini S/R 'fangs'
I think the j**p folks also mount to the the shackle; i searched 'tow bar shackle'
Having gone to yj's, I'll either put them on the shackle or the bumper bottomside ...
Trailering currently.
Going somwheres? ;D
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Bumper mounting would sure be easier. I know its strong, and I've got an adjustable height hitch so I should be able to easily get the correct attitude on the tow bars. I've been trying to get some input on the handling aspects of the towed vehicle, if any, in regard to the placement of the attachment points of the tow bar. High, low, middle, any pros/cons?
Bumper would be easiest, but it is a bit high even at it's lowest practical mounting point. 22/23 inches i think. I've read the tow bar should be level at least, or be slightly lower at the tow vehicle end, to aid in stopping. I'm even more interested in consistant handling though. Input?
Yeah, I'm thinkin' about some southern hospitality, ;)
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Well, I just lucked out having the mounts at a height where the towbar was level with the right drop hitch. As for flat towing, I only did it once. It was downright scary :o
BUT...
it was my first time towing it, so I may have been a little too fast through the switchbacks.
Also, it was right after doing the suspension, and I only had the toe-in aligned so it was driveable. The camber was still wayyy off (I was towing it to the trail for a "break in" on the suspension).
I think the alignment may have affected the way it towed, combined with a little too much speed.
The thing is, when I'm towing a trailer, it usually has trailer brakes. Even if it doesn't, the tongue weight alone on the back of my truck will help me when braking, because it keeps the back end of the truck forced downwards. So, with a conventional trailer, I find that the trailer "holds" me back in the turns with only slight braking on my part.
But, when flat towing, there is no tongue weight. So when I went into a turn, I am only relying on my truck's brakes, and in addition to that, the Tracker is acting as dead weight, pushing the back end of my truck around, making a very scary situation. No tongue weight on the truck means it was pushing the back end around too much. I was hearing the tires of the tracker skipping behind me on a few turns and on the more aggressive turns, I could hear and feel the back tires of the truck skipping, too. Twice I was forced to use up the lane of oncoming traffic (when nobody was coming) to correct it because it felt like it was out of my control. And when I say I may have been going too fast, I'm not talking a lot of speed, I'm talking 20mph, 25 MAX, and the long line of cars behind me keeps growing!
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Dang! That sounds downright tiring. I wonder how those thousands of motorhomes do it? Slowley I guess. I do see them barreling down the freeways though seemingly without a problem.
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DJ makes it sound white knuckle!
When I went to pick up my rig (NJ to VA) I had never flat towed, and was VERY apprehensive.
Unfounded; as long as you leave extra room to stop, pay attention, and slow down on exit ramps, no trouble at all.
I have since (Last July) towed it 2500 miles before getting a trailer...'07 Nissan Frontier, 260 hp, 6500 rated tow
If your castor is out it will not track and will want to pull the back of the tow side to side. Prob non-issue for you, Mike
You will pay tolls at the two axle rate.
You cannot back up...
As long as the bar is near level, and your mounts at least frame width apart, 'no problem , Mon!' Don't sweat it.
I mounted some cheap lights on a piece of 1x3 wood I had laying around, added a 5 foot piece of cord to a hole at each end, and just drape it over my spare w/a 20 foot 4 wire lead going to my tow's trailer plug
AFA driveshaft removal or what gear to leave the trackick in; dunno, I'm a sammi guy...
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Flat towing, is that what we call using an 'A' Frame? over here those sort of frames are available braked, with the brake cable hooking up to the parking brake on the towed vehicle.
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Similarly available here as well but pricey!
Un-needed for 'occaisional' jaunts, imho
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Hey, thanks guys, I was begining to get a little concerned. I think it'll be fine. I'll be welding on the brackets this weekend ( after I mow down my property!) Then I'll give it a test drive. I'm probably gonna pick up a lite set from Harbor freight, $14.99. Magnetic type.
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...don't forget your 20% coupon
..(which, by the way, works at HOME DEPOT on everything in the cart; not just one item!)
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DJ makes it sound white knuckle!
It definitely was that time! I haven't towed it anywhere major since that trip, and since that trip I have had the whole alignment done perfectly and bigger tires. I'm sure it would be better now. I've towed it around town a lot to drop off/pick up my truck from the shop and it does good now.
And those big a$s diesel pushers don't have any problem because they're so HEAVY, there's no way a little tracker is gonna make the tow rig wander around at all!
And there's no way to back it up, yeah, the only problem with it. I left my steering wheel unlocked (key in the ignition) so it would track with my tow rig. Tows great when it's not getting scary.
AFA driveshaft removal or what gear to leave the trackick in; dunno, I'm a sammi guy...
I know mine is supposed to be left in 2nd gear, transfer case in neutral. Something about proper lubrication of some bearings. bentparts has an auto trans, so I don't know his scenario
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I don't know what you are planing on towing with or how far you are going but us motor home guys use a brake system which is incorporated into the hitch. There are some expensive electric systems but this system is cheaper and just uses the weight of the toad [towed vehical] to actuate the brakes. Check it out Readybrake.com . Going to drag the Tracker out west this summer for an adventure. Hope I live through it!
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Towing with a Ford F150 7700, which is the 2wd version of the F250. 5.4 LTR Factory towing setup. Plenty of power. Big Ass 4 wheel discs too, which I just rebuilt with all new parts. I should be ok. thanks all for your input, and Gearjam, Rhinoman, I am going to check out one of those braking setups.
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...price starts |removethispart|@ $570... :o
Would be great if you flat towed a lot.
But, for our needs; overkill. imho.
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Holy Crap! $570 Starting price! :o I'll learn to be more careful! 8)
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...post up the mount pics so we can see!
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Welded some bracing to the front of the frame, then just welded the tow bar mount to it. I figured if the factory steel loop on the front was strong enough to yank with ( I've pulled a coulple of stuck rigs with it ) braced up it should be fine for tow bar mounts. Welds aren't too pretty, but will do the job, I had to make a couple of passes because of the thickness of the plate on the two bar mount. They don't stick out any further than the stock loop did, so I figure I didn't loose much if any approach angle.
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I think i would gusset the bottom of the 'u' bracket to alleviate side stresses; the one's that came w/my HF towbar look like yours but with a flate plate at the bottom/base of the 'u'; approx 1" wide;dunno if I'm being clear enough...?
-meaning- with the gusset, the bar cannot fall to ground when pin removed...hth
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How would the tow bar be free to move up and down with the bottom boxed in like that? I mean it's easy enough to weld on a couple of gussets, but necessary?
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I don't mean for the gusset to restrict movement; just trying to explain where the gusset is on mine.
The side-to-side stresses while turning are probably greater than pulling/stopping.
W/O gusset, there is nothing to prevent the bracket from widening/bending when side stressed?
How thick is the bracket? 3/8"?
You're right, might not be necc.; I only mentioned as mine came gusseted...
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The steel on mine appears to be about 1/4" or slightly larger. I sleaved the boxed section of the tow bar so the bolts have more surface area to connect with. I also re-fit all the pivot points with SS shims so there's no metal to metal contact of the moving parts, ( other than the thrust shims) and greased everything thouroughly. I think I'll add the gussets just to be safe though, overkill is my middle name.
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I went ahead and added a gusset to the bottom of each bracket, 5/16th plate steel, that extends back and down to the bottom of the frame, and about 1.5" back on the bottom of the frame box section. This ties the tow bar bracket securely into the frame. I think this is PLENTY strong enough now.