ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: keith on May 17, 2010, 07:11:12 AM
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With as capable as Sidekicks, Trackers and Samurai's are I wonder why Suzuki never took them to the next level in terms of offroad capability. The most I've ever seen for them from the factory is some skid plates on the ZR-2 of the 2nd gen and a limited slip rear diff. Wouldn't you think that they could have sold a lot more of them if they have a few either factory or dealer options such as lifts or lockers?
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probably it was a liability thing. if you make such components, and someone gets hurt while using them, you, the manufacturer are responsible if it was stock on your vehicle.
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I would bet the ol' Consumer Reports scam that sucker punched them and killed the sales of the Samurai in the US...
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oh i don't know, jeep seems to do quite well with the "rubicon" models with the lockers and t-case gears exc.....
i think they know that Suzuki people are cheap and wont spend the $$$ to buy a built truck brand new LOL
probably it was a liability thing. if you make such components, and someone gets hurt while using them, you, the manufacturer are responsible if it was stock on your vehicle.
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oh i don't know, jeep seems to do quite well with the "rubicon" models with the lockers and t-case gears exc.....
i think they know that Suzuki people are cheap and wont spend the $$$ to buy a built truck brand new LOL
probably it was a liability thing. if you make such components, and someone gets hurt while using them, you, the manufacturer are responsible if it was stock on your vehicle.
The problem with that logic - at least in the US - is that there are NO new Suzuki trucks to build!
It's no fun to take a unibody Grand Vit and try to lift it.
If we had Jimnys in the US, then it would be a different matter altogether.
Also, I don't think Suzuki is looking for another situation like the one Consumers Union put them through again.
As a result of the lawsuit, there is still no mechanism in place to keep any publication from committing the same act that Consumer's Union did to Suzuki.
You may question the above statement, but if you take the time to study the legal opinions that came from this court case, you'll find that deeper, fundamental issues came into play that the courts and the parties in the case could not ignore.
Suzuki did not win.
Consumer's Union did not win.
However, your right to publish information without fear of instant litigation because "someone didn't like what you wrote" is protected.
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Had consumer reports not done that BS thing about the samurai, we would likely still be seeing a bunch of awesome 4x4 trucks from them. suzuki doesnt realy want to have a repeat of the consumer reports crap again.
In all fairness, the samurai does have a narrow wheelbase, but its still not that easy to roll one, unless you're taking a 90 degree turn at 40mph.
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I agree Bob and if you add wider tires it helps them both on and off road
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IMO, Suzuki never went any further with their 4x4's here in the Good Ol USA, is because in America, we only build vehicles to satisfy the lowest common denominator of idiot drivers. Why do you think there's all the " mandated safety equipment?" Traction control, vehicle stability control, ABS, collision avoidance warnings, Drowsy driver alerts, 20 airbags per vehicle, back up warnings, and on and on. Teach people to be better, more responsible drivers? Hell no, we'll just make the cars smarter so the drivers can get dumber! Parallel park? Don't even bother to learn, the car can do it for you!
Take a look at what kind of Suzuki's you can buy in the rest of the world, they get some pretty cool stuff. It's no wonder they gave up the true 4x4 here and now build what everybody in America really wants. Grand Vitera, Kisashi, The Frontier clone. All good vehicles I'm sure, but the simplicity and ruggedness of the Samurai and 1st +2nd gen Trackicks are things of the past. The Majority of folks want all the bells and whistles, and want the vehicle to do the work, not them. No thinking while driving means more time for texting, phone calls, laptops, make up application, etc, etc. Forgive me I rant.
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Bentparts, I think you actually got it EXACTLY RIGHT. sadly, Americans as a whole are generally getting dumber. There are still purists out there like us that dont want this unibody computer controlled self parking crap and just want a good full frame, very basic truck that GETS IT DONE.
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Hah GIT R DONE!
I can't believe that new parallel-park "assist" thing. "Assist?" It's not "assisting" if it's DOING IT FOR YOU!
Jeez. I learned to drive in an extended-cab shortbed chevy 4wd half ton. Parallel parking and everything. It was a 1995 and it didn't turn on a dime. You learn to plan ahead when making u-turns or in a parking lot. You learn how to back up a lot more. You learn how to turn WIDER than usual. I still drive the same type of truck but newer, 2003, and being ex.cab S/B, it's still a bit longer than my '95 was. The 03 was a hand-me-down from my father and that's what I did my FIRST driving in, though...about 10 hours of TRAIL driving in the mountains during hunting season. Now that teaches good driving skill...looking out for rocks and trees and learning to turn wide and know where your tires track. Hell, my father drives a Ford Super Duty, it's a Supercrew and 8ft. LB with front leaf springs (so turning radius sucks even more than the newer front coil-sprung trucks) and he still can flip a bitch easily. Just something you get used to fast.
It's ridiculous. I think the best advancement is the air-bag...probably one of the safety features that is a good thing. Because, it doesn't teach you to be less knowledgeable (as parallel park assist, drowsy driver alert, etc.) it's just there to DEFEND YOU from the OTHER drivers that have all that safety crap that taught them to be ignorant. Car's aren't plug-and-play, they can be deadly, and people need to wake up and realize that when they get behind the wheel, they must act RESPONSIBLY, and not expect the car to DO IT FOR THEM.
Anyways, sorry about the rant. If we still want a "good full frame, very basic truck that GETS IT DONE" then we just may have to start building our own soon enough. Fabricate your own frame (or use a frame off something else) and start from there. Look at what muskegtracker is doing...he gets the fun aspect of the XL7 V6 while keeping the "basic" Tracker body and deleted all the unnecessary safety equipment. Unfortunately, many of us (myself included) don't have the time, money, or skill, to undertake such a project as that. But, you can see the end result of someone having that time and skill and dedication to finish a project. I mean, read all the build diaries on this forum alone (not to mention those all over the web elsewhere...and those who don't have online access and have builds too) and see what people can do themselves.
Besides, if you build it yourself, you learn to appreciate it more, much more than something that is "ready-to-go" from the showroom floor (although it would still be awesome to buy new 4x4s with all the goodies).
In California there is such a thing as a "Special Construction Vehicle" class that does not require smog. How about that for being awesome?!?
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AMEN. ;D
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What bentparts said.
all this crap just isnt ncessary. air bags, and power brakes are realy all I NEED to have. the rest, screw it, i dont need it. I learned how to drive in big body cars and pickups, and I'm good at handling them, without all tat fancy crap. dont need it, dont want it, so yeah
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AGREED I think it is sad when I can back a vehicle into a parking space better than a lot of people (around where I live and drive) can do going forward. What I want to know too is what happens when that "assist" parking feature fails or the throttle sticks while it is going back? I also have my commercial drivers license and I know how to back big rigs better then the 4 wheeled car drivers I see here.
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I know how ya feel man. its not hard to drive backwards if you've practiced it and really know how to judge distance well.
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I know how ya feel man. its not hard to drive backwards if you've practiced it and really know how to judge distance well.
HECK YA! im 23 and just learned to drive this year. thank to a great instructor who taught me, i can out park most people who have been doing int 10-20 year longer.(he usualy teaches big_rigs 5th wheels and motorhomes and has been teaching for 40+ years)
i get soo pissed off when i see the shit other drivers pull! just yesterday i was in a 4 way stop and as i was making my left turn some asshole in a new porshe blows through my stop doing 80 mph! just inches away from me!! was a good thing i stopped. butr now i was stalled and shifting to first when some moron in a shiny new exploder speeds up (wanting to blow though the stop sign) and slams his brakes blaring his horn at me stopping 6 inches from my freaking door!!! :o
as we all know samurais are slow starters in first and the guy was not even giving me enough room to finish my turn! grrrrrrr ???
anyways i rant. people are dumb, suzuki's rock and fords can lick my sack!
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>:( Hey , I got a Ford too! :P
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>:( Hey , I got a Ford too! :P
I like my Ford trucks a lot man. take care of em, they keep comin back for more abuse(sound familiar?)
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I agree a Zuk is slow off the line at times but try it in a loaded semi with cars on all sides of you and they think they are the only ones with tight dead lines, it is getting nuts on our roads thank goodness that we can get away from at least some of the idiots off road lol lets just all hope the mall crawlers stay at the malls though and leave the real off road trails for us.
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I would bet the ol' Consumer Reports scam that sucker punched them and killed the sales of the Samurai in the US...
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I live in the town of consumer reports and met the people who actually did the roll over test and rolled it over. Every SUV gets the same exact test, drive the speed to which the driver feels comfortable (as close to the edge as possible) and do evasive manuvers to represent deer/child running out in front of you or sudden lane change on highway. They did not single out the samurai.
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First off, to all who have posted before me, HELL YA! I just had a conversation with a buddy of mine about how now days its hard to find a manual trans on a showroom(certain exceptions) and thats the most basic car part. people have been trained to be lazy so we have invented stuff to accomodate our laziness ex. who the hell cant take 10 min to boil water for mac n cheese?! "no, i need it in 5 min instead" (ok i took it way away from the topic but its similar).
I know how ya feel man. its not hard to drive backwards if you've practiced it and really know how to judge distance well.
the problem i see is the masses are taught "if you cant doit dont worry, others will accomodate you" which is BS. when i was 13 my grand father taught me to drive a stick on a '75 CJ-5. i learned to back up a trailer when i was 15 bc my dad thought it was something that i NEEDED to know, not something to 'not worry about.' my first car was a 98 Dodge ram long bed, and i could park better than most ppl i went to school with that had tiny cars, why? Because i chose to learn. i am just starting my first real mechanical venture bc i want to learn about what im driving, i want to be able to help myself if i get in a pinch 30 miles from nowhere, i dont want to rely on AAA or someone im with, i want to doit myself. AAA/others is great but when you allow yourself to live in ignorance bc of it, you hurt yourself. ppl arent always gonna stop and your not always gonna have cell service. I have bitten off a big a$$ chunck with my sami and luckily i know ppl (blknight87 for 1) who are willing to share their knowledge but it still requires me to get off the couch and get behind a wrench/saw/grinder/welder whatever. im a firm believer in a$$ whoopins and manual labor in most any instance makes you a better person.
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I live in the town of consumer reports and met the people who actually did the roll over test and rolled it over. Every SUV gets the same exact test, drive the speed to which the driver feels comfortable (as close to the edge as possible) and do evasive manuvers to represent deer/child running out in front of you or sudden lane change on highway. They did not single out the samurai.
Thats not true, video and written evidence was produced in court that showed that CR had to modify the course to get the Samurai to roll over and when the test driver failed a CR guy drove the car. This evidence was published on the internet but was withdrawn after the final deal was done to end the case. I believe that unofficial copies of the video can still be found online.
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Here you go, the condensed version:
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7961488372528875043&hl=en-CA (http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7961488372528875043&hl=en-CA)
In fact CUs testing proved the Samurai to be more stable than other SUVs.
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In fact CUs testing proved the Samurai to be more stable than other SUVs.
Now I'll totally speak for this truth. I used to drive a 4x4 kia sportage. while it was a nice car, it sure wasnt stable at all above 55mph to me.
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It's really a damned shame what CU did, & because of it we can't get the Jimny. If Suzuki put the Jimny on the market here I would be first in line to buy one & I bet it would sell well. What more could you want: full frame, coil suspension, real 4wd, reliability, low cost of ownership... & oh great gas mileage. All the reasons I bought a Tracker.
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Here you go, the condensed version:
[url]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7961488372528875043&hl=en-CA[/url] ([url]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7961488372528875043&hl=en-CA[/url])
In fact CUs testing proved the Samurai to be more stable than other SUVs.
Far out, Rhinoman!
I can't get my version of that video to play at Ack's FAQ because the video format isn't supported anymore. I am trying to process it through my NLE PC but am having problems with it.
In the meantime, I have added this version of the video to the Suzuki vs Consumer's Union page at Ack's FAQ!
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In the meantime, do you think I can I download that version of the video you posted a link to and put it on Ack's FAQ??
The third slide says "Permission is granted to use excerpts for commercial broadcasts or print.", I'm no lawyer, but I'd say you're covered.