ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Urban_offroad on May 25, 2005, 11:33:28 AM
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Hey boys and Girls,
I'm just wondering where is everyone finding all the power out of the 8V motor to run 33" tires and bigger. I'm running 31's right now with Basically stock motor and I have crappy power up the hills. I have a header on there right now and it's better then before.. but still. I can get a cam for the motor, but here in Vancouver BC we have a stupid cash grab called aircare.. and I've heard a few people that had the cam not pass and was just a hasle...
I'm thinking I might want to go up in tire size soon.. and lock it up in the read but I don't want to crawl on the highway to the trails.. What does everyone use for powerplant????
Thx
Wilson
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Okay, here I go, I still have everything stock (for now) and have a 1.6 8V motor, as long as the land is flat (like over here) there ain't no problem. So the best option without regearing the tracker would be moving. But, I'd say (b'cause you are in the US) get you a set of diff gears and maybe some lower t-case gears and your set. But over here that's too expensive so I'll go with auto diff's and a sammy t-case (about the same as stock in High gear).
Good luck with finding more power, there is some reserve left in the 8v but not enough to make 33" tyres feel like stock ;)
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5.83 gears
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5.83 gears
and possibly snap axels? ...
urban, when you say "hillls" are you talking trails or hwy?
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Not knowing what the rest of yur engine is like it's hard to suggest. For the emissions gears are probly the route to go as they won't effect a sniffer test. I think I would try to find out what the standards are for the aircare test before writing off enigine mods.
Zag
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I drive a 1.3L on vancouver island.... dont you people with 1.6L's start complainin bout power!! ::) just drive it like a race car, rpm's are your friend ;D
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 just drive it like a race car, rpm's are your friend ;D
hahahaha yup, i drive up the malahat at least 2 times a week, and i love them higher rpms, i just fly up there lol
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5.83 gears
If you can find find one for the rear I want it ;D
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I'm on the paved roads more the offroad.. and getting to the camping and play areas are SSSSLLLLOOOOWWW... Loaded with all my gear and tires and camping gear. So gears are good anyone have anything?? And how much am I looknig at..
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for the hwy, you'll want gears.
My auto has 5.12's swapped in (and wears 31's), and it tops out around 55mph on hills for me.
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It may seem expensive, but if I had to do it over again I'd get my case redone at OTT so that you could bolt a 2nd T-case on to it (Sami).  With the sami reduction built into the case you can run stock gears in your axils.  (the 5.83's are hard to come by).  Plus the extra T-case gears, a combo of 4:1 plus.
R&P
$300
$300
Bearing set
$139
4.24:1 Gears
$975
Total:  $1714 + Sami case
OTT:  Kicker 1 = $500
So that's a savings of $1214 and if you ever have R&P problems (cj) no problem finding a replacement. ÂÂ
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If I was going to do it again I think I'd go the OTT route as well instead of 5:83s.
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Thanks guys.. that gives me something to think about.. an kind of makes up my mind for now... CAN'T AFFORD IT = LEAVE IT... HAHAHAH
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i run 33s on stock high rang , low box is 4:24 and great , i tow my caravan and its a killer. not to bad on its own, i made a big air intake with the injection air box calmini filter and now run a full jan speed exhuast , it helps but isnt great,
Next up is going to be a hawk cam im hopping to get some increase , anyone run Hawk is it worth it or should i just get an 1800 and spend the cash on converting the dizzy and a nice SU carb?
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for the hwy, you'll want gears.
My auto has 5.12's swapped in (and wears 31's), and it tops out around 55mph on hills for me.
Geez here I thought I was doing bad holding 60mph on steepish hills in 5th...maybe I should just leave it as it is...but still play with the cam timing to move the power curve up a bit ;)
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whats 60 mph= in kms?
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You want more power, there is always
my way, muhuhuhahaha ;D
Now for the MPH to Kmh conversion
60 MPH is about 98 Km/h,
62 MPH is 100 Km/h
Wild
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dam i dont get 100 kmh goin up hills i get botu 90, and about 80 when im towin my quad
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I just added a custom grind cam to my 8Valve last weekend. I havent gotten a full tank of fuel through it and the timings a little off. But so far Ive noticed better driveability and less needed rpms to get around. Throttle response is much better and it takes less pedal to get up and down the highway. Its not a miracle worker, its better in high, but the gain in 4low is going to be much better. 1st through 3rd pull way better now than ever and the motors got almost 200000kms on it. Cam is from a place in Langley BC. Called Colt Cams. http://www.coltcams.com/ Jeff the owner makes custom grinds for any motor running anything. Im going to give it a couple more weeks to see about fuel milage and get my timing checked. So far its going well and is a good improvement.
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I just added a custom grind cam to my 8Valve last weekend. I havent gotten a full tank of fuel through it and the timings a little off. But so far Ive noticed better driveability and less needed rpms to get around. Throttle response is much better and it takes less pedal to get up and down the highway.  Its not a miracle worker, its better in high, but the gain in 4low is going to be much better.  1st through 3rd pull way better now than ever and the motors got almost 200000kms on it.  Cam is from a place in Langley BC. Called Colt Cams. [url]http://www.coltcams.com/[/url]  Jeff the owner makes custom grinds for any motor running anything.  Im going to give it a couple more weeks to see about fuel milage and get my timing checked. So far its going well and is a good improvement.
Got any timing specs for that new cam?
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why is it so hard to get more power out of a zuki motor , or is it . i wouldnt think 100hp+ should be no problem out of a 1.6 , not a dig deal with any other motor . or is it lack of aftremarket sopport ?
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why is it so hard to get more power out of a zuki motor , or is it . i wouldnt think 100hp+ should be no problem out of a 1.6 , not a dig deal with any other motor . or is it lack of aftremarket sopport ?
There's really not much you can do with a 16V aftermarket wise aside from a turbo really. Maybe on a dyno with a MS hooked to a laptop.
At 3800RPM with 33's the older 5th 5.14 Calmini (with a head wind up hill "Slightly") Im rockin 72MPH,,, No problem!!! All day. I havent even tried top speed. Over 70's freeky enough for me. GPS verified!!
A 8V can out power a 16V no problem. No one (FI Guy's) realizes a WEBER on a 1.6 gives you almost the same comparison in HP from going from a 1.3 to a 1.6 IMO,,,,I didn'y Dyno it. Whats FI stock like 2 Hp more than a carb. AND they can be set up to run upside down don't even start that. Iv got a 1.6 8V with a Weber, ported intake, I ported the head a bit, DT header, 2.5 exaust, underdrive pully and I retarted the cam/crank timing a tooth. And I'll whoop on a 16V. But its turbo time so Im switchin to FI for that reason ONLY.
No computer, harness is for lights only,,,and with NO emissions equipment aside from a CAT I passed NJ inspection no problem.
;) :P
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I don't think it's any harder to get power out of a 1.6/8v than anyother engine I've ever raced. The hard part I think is to get power where it's useful for a 4wd.
Check out "Wildgoody's" website, he went turbo and got good results. You can also check out the threads"high performance engine glitch" or "pics of zaggy's engine" to see what I've done to get 90-100hp|removethispart|@5000rpm. Bear in mind you don't need all the wild internal stuff I've done because you won't be running the steady high rpm.
With the cam I just recieved I'm now expecting to hit 105-110hp|removethispart|@6000rpm. Which is a little more than I was targeting.
Zag
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Wildgoodies been hookin me up on the Turbo knowledge. ;) Im working the same setup as him Im just using a T3 and an eclipse IC. Im waiting for fall to do it though. It's too nice out to be messing with a good thing right now.
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why is it so hard to get more power out of a zuki motor , or is it . i wouldnt think 100hp+ should be no problem out of a 1.6 , not a dig deal with any other motor . or is it lack of aftermarket sopport ?
I don't think it is, the 1.6 Swift GTI sold over here used a variant of the SOHC 16V engine used in the Track/Kick and made 115bhp. I don't know if there is a lack of aftermarket support either there are a lot of modified Swifts about. I think the real reason that you don't see many tuned Track/Kicks is that tuned engines don't generally suit offroading where you want lots of nice smooth power low down the rev range for trickling along in low range. Wild will obviously disagree but I think generally off road types are more inclined to their time and money into suspension.
I also think that in time the 2ltr swap could become as popular as a 1.6 into a Sammy. It just needs a few people to do it first to show that it is practicable.
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what about a supercharger? would that be an easier setup? ive seen bolt on superchargers that werent much bigger than a gm alt. looks kinda like a belt driven turbo fan . would that require as much electronics work . like the megasquirt? dont wana go carbrater .seems too much like moveing backwards .especally for offroading .
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any forced induction should have a good FI system and a good computer to control everything. its pretty tricky to get things forced inducted right.
turbos and superchargers will increase power by a substantial amount through the rev range, but it comes down to driving style. do you need all those RPMs? some will say yes, others wouldn't mind it, but for off roading, where torque and crawling are needed, then maybe its not so practical then. but with mud and fun country driving, it couldn't get any better.
as with ATMO engines, or NA, power increase is less substantial, and you can get your motor flowing good, with better mid range torque. and if you want to go the works, with internals, or cam, or even if you increase compression, you can have a pretty strong and powerful motor (1.6), but, the peak power may be as high in the revs as a forced inducted motor. NA built motors can have the potential to over rev forced induction motors.
and if people are looking for cheap power? theres really no cheap way. but if you're looking for cheap torque, get some reduction transfer gears (or lower diff ratios) it will be cheaper in the long run, as compared to an engine swap, or trying to fit and tune a custom turbo or supercharger set up (when including all parts and custom work etc etc).
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I also think that in time the 2ltr swap could become as popular as a 1.6 into a Sammy. It just needs a few people to do it first to show that it is practicable.
I think your right on this, there's not enough people doing engine swaps to get any good, accurate information on how difficult or easy it is, and show exactly what's involved.
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An often misunderstood thing about turbo
and supercharged applications is that they
only work in the high RPM ranges, and rightly
so, as most of these applications are in high
performance high RPM sports cars.
The real truth about Forced Induction is that it
can be what you want it to be, you can make 5 PSI
boost in 15 feet from a stop sign, ask me how I
know ;) you can also set up the drive in a supercharger
to boost at lower RPM range, depending on the
unit, a positive displacement supercharger like a
Roots type will boost the same PSI from throttle
opening thru max engine RPM
A Paxton style, like the one mentioned boosts at
a variable rate, similar to a turbocharger, the boost
doubles with the square of the RPM that is is running
at, this is due to the non positive displacement nature
of this type of pump.
So this being said, a small well matched turbo will boost
at a low RPM, and yes even at low speeds in low range,
but it doesn't do a lot at 2000 RPM, which is just over
idle in a 1.6 engine, and a turbo is also not like a light
switch, there is a range of boost that can be controled with your right foot, more foot, more boost, up to the
preset waste gate max boost PSI
Wild
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you guys cant go past 60? with my 33s and stock drivetrain, my speedo regularly hits 120km/h plus factor in the bigger tires... gotta be around 80mph. And I used to drive like that 80 miles each way to work
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I also think that in time the 2ltr swap could become as popular as a 1.6 into a Sammy. It just needs a few people to do it first to show that it is practicable.
give me time, i'm still searching...
stu
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Me too, I'm working on it
Zag
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I think to clear up my initial question i was talking about up hill power more then anything. On flat roads I can get it up to 120 KM/Hr without any probs.. but (for those who like in around the rockies) you know when your loaded down with gear and punch it up a 15 deg Hill.. that 120Km in 5th goes to 70-80Km in 3rd pretty quick.
Then when your waiting on the trails and again it's 15 deg-20 deg climb, I don't want to rev it up to 3000 rpm and dropping the clutch to get it "crawlling" up the hill
the numbers are a bit exagerated.. but you all understand my point...
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So you're looking for more mid range torque, pulling power so to speak.
Zag
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My lastest project was going to be a super charger from a mini cooper.
Im seeling it on ebay at the moment i have decided to put it on hold . http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7976626953&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
(http://i2.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/2d/73/44_1_b.JPG)
Main reason for not doing it yet is cost,
second reason I have found some better super chargers that already have the webber adapter as this BMW type would take a lot of work to adapt it to my kick/vitara.
third , the amount of mud and water may end up killing it anyway.
so i have just fitted the rest of my Jan SPeed exhaust and I will get a new Cam,
33s and stock gearing is fine but i like to tow my caravan to show so after some more BHP
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hey markyb, do you have pics and a name of the supercharger with the weber adapter?
i've seen some on sammys in the states, and i know that i will never have the chance to get one let alone have it fitted on my vit.
i find this very interesting, as the s/c has the weber on one side, and the air fuel mixture goes through it then into the engine. a draw through system, like turbo on a carby motor.
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My lastest project was going to be a super charger from a mini cooper.
Im seeling it on ebay at the moment i have decided to put it on hold . [url]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7976626953&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1[/url]
([url]http://i2.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/2d/73/44_1_b.JPG[/url])
Main reason for not doing it yet is cost,
second reason I have found some better super chargers that already have the webber adapter as this BMW type would take a lot of work to adapt it to my kick/vitara.
third , the amount of mud and water may end up killing it anyway.
so i have just fitted the rest of my Jan SPeed exhaust and I will get a new Cam,
33s and stock gearing is fine but i like to tow my caravan to show so after some more BHP
No Bidders outside the UK :'(
Wild
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hey markyb, do you have pics and a name of the supercharger with the weber adapter?
http://www.camdensuperchargers.com/
$$$$$$$$$
:o
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Ya, I know about them, but what fun is it to
buy a bolt on kit ???
;D
Wild
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I couldn't find the kit for a zuk on there anyway,,,they might have dropped it all together,,,,,,,AGAIN
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as much as i hate to admit it i think im going to try a VW motor . ive had a 1.8 GTI motor for a few years in the corner i was saveing for a sammy but i think im gona start collecting parts for the conversion. vw's make really good power and have a lot of aftermarket support . ive seen a 1.8 16v normally aspereated make almost 200hp.
a 1.8 8v should pull a tracker around pretty well. if not a 16v or a 20v would defenetly do the job .
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How about a bolt in Turbo Diesel
They are here now, interested ???
I can hook you up
Wild
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shipping to the US would be as much as the charger,
I will do the conversation at some stage, Maybe next year after im married as the Mrs keeps taking all the money for that at present,
I saw an early mini super charger that used the smaller webber carb and like you say a draw through system.
I suppose a bolt on system is nice but more fun blowing thing up if i had the spare money,
If i can pick up another tracker cheap i might make it up on there and test it. might keep dreaming for now,
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How about a bolt in Turbo Diesel
They are here now, interested ???
I can hook you up
Wild
i have a VW 1.8? TD at my shop but just don't want the extra weigh :-/ i am thinking about a cheap sammy mabey but it would be super cool to have a boosted diesel in anything.
stu
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the VW TD is not that heavy have you checked the weight difference? They are either 1.6 or 1.9L depending on the year.
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http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=42606&highlight=supercharger
(http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/download.php?id=8226)
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ok wear do i get it and how much?
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ok wear do i get it and how much?
But you loose power steering :o
Extra 20Hp?
What, where, when, How Much,
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what power steering???
i wanna know hwo to get this :D :o ;D
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I was looking at the supercharger websites and I'm amazed at the cost.....do guys really want power that bad?
I liked wilds comment "what funs a bolt on kit". Now I admit I'm nuts when it comes to searching for power,
I'm up into 5 figures on developing the airboat and airplane engine stuff, but I'm trying to prove a point with it and theres thousands of $$$ that would never need to be spent putting the same engine into a track/kick.
While I really like Wild's set up, I tend yto view super/turbo charging as a little much for the average non-engine nut to bite into...but there's lots of power out there for less than the 2495.00 US that the one supercharger kit is priced at....or am I not seeing something here?
Zag
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I gave some serious consideration to supercharging but after weighing up the cost/power equation I think the 2 ltr swap is a better option, for an 8V owner its a 50% power increase and a stock 2ltr should be extremely reliable, with lots of torque
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Thats kinda what I thought starting getting ready the 1.6/16v in my wife for a 2.0L. It's a huge reliable power jump without stressing the engine and the bigger engine gives mountains of lower end torque.
Zag
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want more power
put in a CSB
(http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7skn/BlackZuk/DCP_6663.jpg)
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nate, can he do wheelies in the bowtie tracker?
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nate, can he do wheelies in the bowtie tracker?
Not quite, but you should see the sidewalls of the Toyo MT's flex. Just like wrinkle wall Hoosiers!
~Nate
P.S.
He does unload his missing links all the time though!
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But you loose power steering :o
You loose all your steering! I had to check that link to work that one out. Its Australian, lol.