ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: 98redkick on June 08, 2010, 09:21:01 PM
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Hi all, my stock 4 door 98 sidekick (1.6, 4spd auto, 93,000 miles) is running like a dog. Low end power is way down. It isn't throwing any codes, just very gutless. It does not backfire, it does bog a bit. Plugs were replaced and throttle body was cleaned probably 5000 miles ago. It has a new air cleaner as of today.
Any suggestions? At 93,000 I figure it could use an o2 sensor. Perhaps someone on here has had a similar problem before I go replacing parts..
Thanks
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Slipped cam timing belt
Low fuel pressure or plugged filter
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I'll start with the fuel filter/pressure first. I doubt it skipped a tooth on the timing belt. I replaced it last year. I imagine it is possible though. I guess I could verify that by putting it on TDC and checking where the distributor points.
Thanks
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Loose crank pulley?
When you replaced the timing belt, you didn't take the big bolt out of the center of the crank pulley, did you?
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Hmmm, no response to that last question has me wondering.
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Hmmm, no response to that last question has me wondering.
He hasn't been back on since the 9th (which was before I posted it).
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Sorry for taking so long to reply. Had family visiting.
I was able to change the fuel filter--no difference. Still have not had time to check pressure.
I doubt it is the timing belt as it runs well at times. If it was off a tooth, I would suppose it would be consistent.
It was a year ago when I replaced the T-belt. Don't remember if I removed the big bolt or not. I am sure I would have tightened it if I did. Will have to double check for good measure though.
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Check the keyway on the pulley.. see if it's wearing. When mine work it did this for a while then work enough that it just ran crappy all the time.
Zig
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I really doubt that it is the keyway. From my experience with Mitsubishi 3.0 motors, I know to always be very careful about inspecting the crank end, key way and pulley on anything with a T-belt. To boot, I always make sure that I tighten the snot out of the bolt.
I don't recall anything abnormal.
In addition, I would expect it to consistently 100% of the time run poorly if it was a tooth off. As it is now, it actually ran great this morning.
When I get time, I think I will check the fuel pressure. What should it be on a FI zuke? 50psi?
Thanks
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So have you checked the timing? If not, I would check it. If so, what was it set at?
Fuel pressure is 30 something up to low 40s, depending on the year....I don't have the chart in front of me right now.
You are right, if it was a tooth off, it would run crappy all the time. On the other hand, if the crank pulley is loose, it would run crappy sometimes and good at other times....depending on the position of the crank pulley in relation to the crank.
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It was a year ago when I replaced the T-belt. Don't remember if I removed the big bolt or not. I am sure I would have tightened it if I did. Will have to double check for good measure though.
I would think you would remember if you removed it. They are usually a PITA to get broke loose.
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Did you get it figured out? Mine is doing something similar. Good luck!
Thanks,
Kjmac
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Ok,
I got around to checking the ignition timing. It is at 5 degress BTDC, which is what it calls for under the hood. According the the Haynes book, you just connect the light, point and shoot. Under the hood it instructed me to inspect the timing with the "check connector short circuited." What and where is that?
I checked the throttle position sensor and it appears dodgy when I check the resistance between terminals B and D when throttle is in closed position. According to my Haynes guide, it should be anywhere from 0.3 to 2k ohms. I am getting a reading of like 4k.
I believe I have the sensor adjusted properly, but who really knows as it is terribly difficult to get a feeler gauge b/tw the throttle stop screw and throttle lever. I will definitely take the throttle body off the car and adjust it on the bench before forking out $225 for a TPS!
According to my Haynes manual, it should throw a code P0122 or P0123 if the sensor is bad. Mine is not setting any codes. Who
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Mine checked good and so did the extra one off the bad engine and no code. The grounding of the connector is in front of the battery with a rubber cover. My haynes doesn't show the right plug. Is yours sputtering and missing at certain rpm? I had to unplug my TPS to get it to run decent!
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KJ,
For the most part, it intermittently bogs when accelerating. Mid/top end power is not so bad. On occasion, if I am in 3rd or 4th gear at about 2000 RPM it will spit and sputter, but not in a terribly noisy way.
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That is what mine is doing, right about 2000 at steady rpm and not noticeable when under load. Mine cleans up to a minor miss above that. It occasionally does the bog like yours. I wish I could help but I can't find my problem! It has to be a sensor or computer as far as I can tell. What distrubutor cap are you running? Have you check to see if you are getting spark jump?
Thanks
Kj
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Hey redkick, you might try unplugging your TPS and see how it runs!
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I did disconnect it. It ran worse, particularly because the tranny must receive shift point info from it. It would shift to 4th ASAP. Still looking for part # TH392 for less than $225. Hoping to find one at the junkyard.
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maybe your mass airflow sensor it will cause it to bog out
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Have any luck yet? Yours being an auto would make it more difficult! I'm just driving mine unplugged it runs decent but I'm sure it would run better with a new one.
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KJ,
I just ordered a used TPS online for $70 (comes with the throttle body too!). I'll let you know how it runs when I have replaced it.
I'm wondering if I can successfully port the throttle body?
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KJ,
What reference did you use to check your TPS? I am beginning to think that my Haynes manual is misleading me on either connector terminal guide (with their labeling of ABCD) or parameters for the various measurements. Or my replacement TPS that I bought responds almost identically to my old one...
Ugh. Replaced it anyhow. Will see if it runs any differently.
:)
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I just went to the library and checked out their motors manual for engine performance. Turns out the Haynes manual I have gave the wrong instructions on which posts to connect to when testing the TPS.
The good news is that I now have 2 good TPSs and 2 good throttle bodies.
The bad: car still bogs.
Will keep looking into it....
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Any luck yet? None here! I used kick-fix.com to set mine but no luck. I'm going to try the other tps I have and if that doesn't do it I'm going in after the timing belt!
Kj
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My 96 was a bit slow around 2K as well. Talking with Wildgoody about it he ran his about 2 degrees forward of what the factory recommended, as do I.
On a 96-98 the diagnostic plug is up next to the passenger side headlight. At 800 rpm stock the timing is around 8 degrees, I run mine at 10. Or 7 with the diagnostic plug enabled. Engine runs great now, lots more power on take off. Mileage is still a bit lower then I like though, as I was getting 27 mpg with the old engine.
If your running 5 degrees of advance at idle your probably around 3 degrees behind the curve. One way to find out where it is supposed to be at with 96+ models is to get an ODBC II scanner. It can tell you what timing the computer thinks it is using, then just tune appropriately. Not sure if an ODBC I scanner does that.
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I ran mine up at 10 deg. But it pinged a litlle so I backed it down to 8. It turns out that it is a lean condition! I think it might be the freshly cleaned and inspected egr that was good. It makes sense now! The egr that was in my supposed low mile junk yard engine was froze up so I took the egr out of the old engine and cleaned it up, it tested good. About 600 miles later, while driving thru town it started sputtering and missing. I went on kix-fix.com and did his tests. I unplugged the MAF and it ran better. I then unplugged the ECT and plugged the MAF back in. The sputtering went away and ran better with more power. The fellow on kick-Fix said it should run really rich this way! It doesn't though...maybe a touch but really doesn't seem to!! Sorry for the long winded reply! Thanks for helping!
KJ
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If your running 5 degrees of advance at idle your probably around 3 degrees behind the curve. One way to find out where it is supposed to be at with 96+ models is to get an ODBC II scanner. It can tell you what timing the computer things it is using, then just tune appropriately. Not sure if an ODBC I scanner does that.
You can get ignition timing from an OBD1 scan tool:
http://www.rhinopower.org/Rhinoview/Rhinoview.html (http://www.rhinopower.org/Rhinoview/Rhinoview.html)
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I just put a jumper between 4 and 5 on the test plug and set it at 8 degrees. I finally found the problem. The modulator isn't getting enough pressure thru the egr port to close the modulator vacuum port. No codes! Not even now, after plugging the outlet of the vsv. Runs good now and until I can see why it isn't getting the pressure. Kick-fix.com said a lack of back pressure in the exhaust could cause it! I can't thank everyone enough!
KJ
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KJ,
Glad you got it fixed. Where did you get this info on the modulator, etc?
Thanks
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Redkick,
I got the info on kickfix.com. It seems I poked around a little and came
across it. Lots of good info on there.
Kj