ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: 93Pretracker on July 06, 2010, 10:19:21 PM
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I'm new to the world of track/kicks and had a question about long travel and couldn't find any info using the search function. I own a 93 Tracker 2wd and wanted to build my rig in a more prerunner direction because of that and because it's mostly desert out here in Southern California.
The rear is easy enough with longer links and shocks. The front is where the problem lays. I'm looking to get between 10-12" of total front travel. I've seen mention of using 'Yota IFS parts but none actually said whether or not the 'Yota arms will fit. Anyone have any info that will help bring my idea into fruition?
Thanks, Nick.
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The closest that i have seen to what you want is Mike Hagen's orange rig makeover where he added a second upper control arm along with a centred front diff and got plenty of travel.
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I would check out the Liberty Overland rig from the Zukiworld Challenge. Eric has put a upper control arm to give it more travel. With the strut setup there isn't a lot else you can do.
On the plus side, you can put taller springs on it since you don't have to worry about toasting CV joints. :)
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I would check out the Liberty Overland rig from the Zukiworld Challenge. Eric has put a upper control arm to give it more travel. With the strut setup there isn't a lot else you can do.
On the plus side, you can put taller springs on it since you don't have to worry about toasting CV joints. :)
Are there any detailed pics or specs of the front suspension on his rig? I only ask because the build thread in the team into section of the Zukiworld Challenge forum didn't contain any. Either on that rig or the ZWO rig as I cant really find much info on the build threads for them.
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Send them a message, I know Eric is still doing some tuning on his front end. I'm not sure the ZWO crew has done much to the other then some taller springs.
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i was going through the monroe book looking at strut dimentions and acording to the book honda pilots/ acura mdx use a strut with 13 inches of stroke. i am thinking of trying them with toyota t 100 axle shafts, longer a arms and taller coils. my 1996 sport is already going sas so i need a rig to try it out on. i live in portland oregon, anyone interested?
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If you do a body lift, you could get enough clearance to center the diff. Cut down a Sammi' housing so you can use right side axles on both sides (uses the Sammi seals).
Like this only on both sides.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_86HP5-adsWc/SRJva_iIDpI/AAAAAAAACYc/KseA1a_0DIA/s512/CIMG3113.JPG)
I was going to try this route, but with the V6 project I have going, there is no room under there.
Good luck. Let us know how the struts work out.
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I will try PMing them and seeing how they did the suspension on their rigs. And to 96kicker4 x2 on letting us know how those struts work out, it might just be right up my alley.
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Here is a link to Mike Hagens dual a arm setup.
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_050106/feature_hagen-newfrontend.htm (http://www.zukiworld.com/month_050106/feature_hagen-newfrontend.htm)
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I got your PM about my race car's front end design... What I've done is a mod to use the stock spindle and spindle mounts and not have the strut... (keeping with the Zukiworld Challenge ruleset) In my opinion there isn't a strut at this point that will actually take 4 straight hours of high speed running. The Bilstein is very close but the OME, Stock stuff, KYB, Gabriel, Monroe all don't have the goods to deliver. The front end has 8+ inches of vertical wheel travel so it may not be enough for what you're looking for. I've been thinking of doing a build article on my racer but have been holding off until I get a solid package developed. I am there now and will be putting something up probably at the end of this season. I'm working on a "cars of the Zukiworld Challenge" article and that'll be part of it.
I'll attach a pictures. If you want to reverse engineer, the lower mounting points are 10" apart. :)
-Eric
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I would have to agree with Eric, the Bilsteins are probably fine for dune hopping or weekend desert running. But for the racing they just get too hot. I think mine will be pretty much toast by the end of the next race.
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How about adding some fins to the strut body? would help to dissipate the heat,
that or a remote reservoir added to the standard struts, but I think fins would help
better, but don't weld to the shock body, that could be dangerous
Wild
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I had tested some aluminum cooling fins on a pair 2.0 fox's. Mach. shop cut them to slide over the shocks cans. We used thermos paste between the shock & cooling fin barrel for max. heat transfer. We checked it with a shop thermal gun & did find it to to be cooler. The driver said it dampen a little better compaired to the fading it did after a 50 mile run we do to test in Ocotillo Ca. Still cost v/s gain is the question.
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how much would you racers be willing to spend on some long travel struts. i am in the finishing stages of some 3 inch internal bypass shocks that i have designed. my design could be modified to function as a strut. i also designed a whole system for the sidekick but think it would be more expensive than the average suzuki guy would be willing to spend. i really like the strut front end because of its simplicity and good geometry traits(especially compared to my i beam ranger). i know the bilsteins are pretty expensive and a set of struts that would last and be rebuildable would pay for themselves in the long run. the easily adjustable damping would also be very valuable for a racer.
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Bilstein can rebuild the struts if you send them in, and looking at the design of the struts you might be able to convert them to a remote reservoir system. That would be an interesting project. :)
The only issue with struts is how to increase the travel without requiring a new mounting point.
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i appreciate all the help. Now it's time to do some R&D with a few of the local fab guys and see what I can come up with.
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Just graft a Camburg setup off of a tacoma and you would be set
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How wide are the Tacoma front ends?
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The problem isn't the lack of res. on the strut nor brand/custom valved strut. It's the single a-arm to strut design. Camber, that's what's you need to look into & why those "who know" are building a upper lower/spindle setup. You talk of long travel, you need to focus on the addition of a upper arm or Ford style "twin I beam". Cheapest (workable) options out there.
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i have found that quality of travel is as important if not more than the amount of travel. even just adding good progressive bumpstops can allow you to go faster in the rough. look at world rally cars, not alot of travel but huge performance due to very effictive damping.
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I agree...travel length isnt as important as quality of travel...if you watch dezert racing lots of cars(jeepspeed, vw's, full size stock) all have limited travel either by design or rules of class and some of these cars haul azz out in the dezert 8)
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That's very true about the quality of travel vs. quantity. Gonna talk to a local fab guy about maybe doing some simple shock hoops and plating the lower arms and making a set of uppers to mount a coilover and some airbumps.
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93pretracker, is your tracker 2 or 4 wheel drive?
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so i bought some subaru wrx struts, 9 inches of travel versus 6.5. i cut the brackets off and i am building new ones for the new struts to fit my sport. was going to go sas but i really want to keep the ifs fornow and see how far i can go with it. stage one will be, subaru struts, T 100 axles, wider a arms and spacers to get 3 to 4 inches of lift. stage 2 will add a 4 inch drop cradle and my own 12 inch travel struts for 6 inches of lift
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What is the dampening rate on the WRX struts vs the Tracker?
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not sure but cars are similar weight and there are many many aftermarket struts available to choose from. kyb has an adjustable one kind of like a rs 9000 rancho. i am almost done with new backets so i will let you guys know how they workout. i am starting out with monroe sensa tracs and being that the wrx is a performance car of similar weight i think they will be ok.
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Bilstein can rebuild the struts if you send them in, and looking at the design of the struts you might be able to convert them to a remote reservoir system. That would be an interesting project. :)
The only issue with struts is how to increase the travel without requiring a new mounting point.
one thing to keep in mind is that with extreme abuse on the front strut towers they tend to bend. strut tower braces help, but if you were really pounding on it i think some reinforcement would be in order.
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one thing to keep in mind is that with extreme abuse on the front strut towers they tend to bend. strut tower braces help, but if you were really pounding on it i think some reinforcement would be in order.
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One plan that I had to help with that would be to have the strut mounts plated and have them incorporated into either a full cage or and engine cage much the prerunner guys do.
After doing some thinking, with how short the wheelbase is on my 2dr, I'm just gonna go with bolt on stuff (4dr springs and Bilsteins with a strut spacer or a partial Calmini Kit with just the arms and links) and save the hardcore L/T stuff for my 67 Chevy project truck. I appreciate the help that I have been given though. No other forums on the interwebz have as many people as willing to help out as the Zuk forums.
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one thing to keep in mind is that with extreme abuse on the front strut towers they tend to bend. strut tower braces help, but if you were really pounding on it i think some reinforcement would be in order.
On Project Trouble we just added some bracing to the existing mount and welded it in place:
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/build-diaries-how-to-diy/project-trouble/msg227825/#msg227825 (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/build-diaries-how-to-diy/project-trouble/msg227825/#msg227825)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_86HP5-adsWc/S8veragKqWI/AAAAAAAAGsA/d4if1yoBnUk/s512/CIMG0556.JPG)
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so i bought some subaru wrx struts, 9 inches of travel versus 6.5. i cut the brackets off and i am building new ones for the new struts to fit my sport.
What year wrx did the struts came off? or is it aftermarket ones? The subarus I've seen doesn't seem to have 9 inches of travel.
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not sure the exect year but they are monroe p/n 72163. i cut all brackets off em and am building a tube for them to slide into like the insert type so that i do not have to weld on the struts them selves. i will post pics when i am done. i will build some of these cans to sell pretty cheap if people are interested.
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The problem with the wrx struts is they cant take the sideload as you will soon find out.
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PPLTRK have you used them to find this out?
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they seem quite beefy, every bit as much as the kick struts. plus the wrx is the most popular rally car out there and 90 mph sideways on dirt is going to side load a strut more than i will. going to give it a try and see. i want to get a bit more flex until my other front end is done.
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The WRX susp. is totaly different, the front of a kick has only one control arm so the strut has to do all the work of holding the knuckle vertical. The wrx has multiple control arms that keep the knuckle vertical. Yes i've tried them all and none last more than one trip.
Kevin
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Bilstein can rebuild the struts if you send them in, and looking at the design of the struts you might be able to convert them to a remote reservoir system. That would be an interesting project. :)
The only issue with struts is how to increase the travel without requiring a new mounting point.
one thing to keep in mind is that with extreme abuse on the front strut towers they tend to bend. strut tower braces help, but if you were really pounding on it i think some reinforcement would be in order.
Is this good enough?
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/bigzook/CHerry%20Bomb/0062.jpg)
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That strut brace looks BEEFY! Nice job!