ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: one mile on July 07, 2010, 08:02:57 AM
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I have searched all over this forum and done all I know to do...Help! I checked all angles before I started and put them all back and still have BIG Issues. (Castor / Camber ,Etc.) My Samurai drove great at all speeds and all surfaces till I did a RUF set up with TT Missing Links up front. Put in New poly bushings and some special bushings they sold me at TT to help with this problem. I put on new U bolts, Gas Shocks and a HD Monroe steering stabilizer. I am running 235/75/15's on 8 in. Rims. Also put all new OEM steering rod ,Drag Link, Etc. New bearings and seals , Felts , King pin bearings (all set up to proper specs) and I mean everything is done! It rides just like I want and sits like I want but THIS I can't deal with! ANY CONSTRUCTIVE INPUT WELCOME! PLEASE!
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You might try swapping out the folding shackles. They might be adding to much play. Have you checked to see if your front axle is sitting at a slight angle after the conversion?
It sounds like you have replaced just about everything that commonly goes wrong. What speed does it start to wobble?
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It does not show a hint of any trouble till I hit a Bump and then I almost have to come to a complete stop to get it back. I put in shims to rotate the housing to get it back to where it was before. The shackles are brand new from TT and tight. I did use the stock locating pins in the Leaf springs to get a longer wheel base for Tire clearance later on. Man I am LOST!
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I could be wrong, but aren't you supposed to install any missing links
type of shackle on the rear or trailing side of the leafs? Having a moving
type shackle on the front or leading side of the spring would be like a
shopping cart wheel at high speed, they can get a real bad rhythm going
Any other ideas?
Wild
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I installed them as the manufacturer instructed. I also watched a video on youtube on them.
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So what has trail tough said about this? is there an
issue that causes this that they know of ?
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Going to pull out the new Poly bushings that I put in when I installed the Missing Links ,the ones that go through the Frame at the top, and put in solid bushings this weekend if I get time. TT seems to think that it will help. We shall see.....
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Let us know how it works out.
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by doing the RUF you raised the vehicle height. sounds like to me you need to install a high steer or 'Z' bar. since its because of bump steer. i just did RUF conversion myself and yes it doesn't handle as nice as before but for what it does off road its worth every penny. also install a pan hard bar, that should help a lot. i haven't done it yet so i can tell you, I'm just to busy to do it this summer i have to wait till winter. and double shackles are fine, that's the whole point of the conversion is to get all that droop. another thing i haven't gotten around to doing is, but i am going to be welding angle iron on the anti kick back plate and a tab on the 'y' shackle and nut and bolt it so that the missing links don't move on the road. then when i want to off road i remove the bolt. but definitely upgrade your steering. i am SPOA with Sky's high steer kit and had virtually no bump steer. i did the RUF w SPOA and have some bump steer now, definitely not a conversion i recommend for a daily driver.
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My springs are under the Axel so the Geomertry should not be off enough to do this. After I put the solid nylon bushings in and I still have a problem then I will try your suggestion.
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WELL ! It seems that I have solved my problem ! I just took my Samurai for a test ride and the solid bushings from TT through the Frame seems to have done the trick. I will be keeping everyone posted as I get to drive it more. Thanks to everyone for your input.
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what solid bushing r u talking about? do you have a link. bc after i did mine its still driveable but there is definitely added vibration.
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I called Trail Tough and spoke to a Tec. and he turned me on to these Bushings I have. They do not list them in their catalog but they have them. Give them a buzz and tell them what you want. I don't know the number right off hand......
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OK it's back! I have been driving it for a while with no issues then tonight I hit a bump and WOBBLE! W T F !!! I have ordered a drop Pitman Arm so I will see...........
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Your Death Wobble is now actually a bumpsteer problem.
A Drop Pittman arm will eliminate it by making the draglink more parallel to the tierod under normal suspension load - which eliminates the bumpsteer problem in a different (but similar) way that an OTT steering system would.
My crowning creation: ;)
http://www.acksfaq.com/bumpsteer_explained.htm (http://www.acksfaq.com/bumpsteer_explained.htm)
If nothing else, I hope you find the above link educational.
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ack;
same story on a tracker with independant front end? Drop pitman & drop drag link mounted to the center link to will correct the bumpsteer?
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The longer the link the less it changes the wheels under suspension compression.
This is the basis on the center mount tierods I built, and that you asked for pics
on ::)
Wild
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Wild- What you are saying is I need to just patiently wait for the pictures and stop trying to recreate the wheel. I must admit it is nice to have all of the older brothers on this site (no by age, but rather by experience) holding my hand through these high speed tracker mods.
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ack;
same story on a tracker with independant front end? Drop pitman & drop drag link mounted to the center link to will correct the bumpsteer?
On an IFS system, the problem is a bit different since the draglink is attached to a segment of the articulated tierod that does not change position in the vertical plane.
However, a suspension lift would affect the operating angles of the articulated segments of the IFS tierod!
I would suspect that either raising the hub end of the tierod or lowering the center section of the tierod would solve this problem. Unfortunately, none of my TracKicks are lifted so I have no direct experience with IFS bumpsteer...
Perhaps it is time to create an IFS bumpsteer animation to see if changing the tierod geometry with a suspension lift actually creates IFS bumpsteer...
Ah, the power of PhotoShop...
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You are correct, as usual. :) The center link I have designed solves 2 problems with lifted
IFS systems, it stops the center link from rotating, which causes high speed darting
when you hit small chatter bumps, and it reduces the forces that tend to want to twist
the center link by getting the tie rods back into a closer parallel plain with the center link
Wild
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Now that sounds like a damn good idea wild, photo or drawing? Care to share?
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This is super secret ninja sauce stuff :-X
;)
I'll get a drawing up soon, my part is too ugly to
post, I broke it in Moab and had to get it welded up
and now I need to make a new custom part
Wild
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I get it, I think. ;)
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OK, I broke down and made a picture, Just for you Medford,
since you have been waiting so patiently
(http://www.wildcatent.freeyellow.com/zookmods/Centerlink.gif)
Dang, came out a little small, just save it and view on your own computer, you can see all the
details that way, and the text, should open with any picture viewer or browser it's a GIF format
Wild
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You can also right click on the picture then select "properties" from the menu that appears. Cut and paste the picture's URL as it appears in the resulting window into your browser's URL field at the top. The picture will appear much larger and easier to read as a new browser page by itself!
The bottom design looks very much like what you see in an ATV IFS suspension.
The angle of the tierods are much less steep - which, I think, should improve handling.
I also noticed this type of centered tierod setup on a VW dune buggy recently.
However, I think that a setup that keeps the stock tierod length but lowers/raises either end to the point of matching the stock tierod geometry would be better...
Then again, we may have one of those "difference that makes no difference" situations here, though...
Bonus points: What famous character in a Television series is attributed to the statement "The difference that represents no difference IS no difference"?
:laugh:
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Yes, if you want to use stock parts, keeping with the stock geometry
is the best way to go, also makes parts replacement much easier.
This is of coarse a sketch and not to scale as well as dimensions are
not absolute, it is simply the concept to improve overall steering and
handling of our lifted trucks
Wild
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Thanks Wild, appreciate the drawing.
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Thanks Wild! Was really looking forward to some greasy undercarriage pics of the turbo beast, but this does the trick for sure. I know you spent a fair amount of time on the drawings, and I am thankful. SS
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One mile have you figured out your problem yet?
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Sorry it took so long to reply.....NOPE! I have just put on the drop pitman and had an alignment done and it is still doing it. I think I will have to take off those T.T. Missing links I have to see if they have anything to do with it.....