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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: KJMac on August 03, 2010, 06:47:57 PM
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Has any body with a 1994 sidekick had their ignition module on the coil mount act up or take a digger!before I spend a bunch of money on a new one I would appreciate some feedback!
Thanks
Kj
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Can you post a pic? It's not a Ballast Resistor is it?
Wild
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No, they call it an ignition module in the book. It is square and has three wires and mounts to the top of the coil bracket. I've check censors fuel pressure and it is still running inconsistant. It will miss and sputter a little and then bad. It will be doggy with no power and ping. Then it won't ping and run decent, peppy and decent power but still has slight mis. I'm about to sell it!
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I wanted to add I back probed the oxygen sensor and it was all over the place. I set the meter on 20v and it was varying from .19-8.3. Does this look like an injector problem?
Thanks for the help
Kj
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Can you correct the text so I know what you were trying to do?
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Sorry about that. I was checking the oxygen sensor out put in volts. It was all over the place so I pulled the injectors and put the injectors in that came out of the old engine. They helped but it is still crapping and missing at steady throttle. It quits when I unhook the throttle position sensor. I checked the tps and it is in spec. I checked the fuel pressure and it was good, it should be, it is new. I'm about to unplug the tps and drive it! I haven't changed the ignition module yet.
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I guessing here it's a 16V engine? because you swapped the injectors (multiple)
but if you were talking about an 8V engine I would say the MAP sensor vacuum
line is off or has a leak.
For a 16V engine you have a MAF, and it may need to be cleaned, don't touch
anything inside the MAF, just get a can of MAF cleaner or electrical cleaner and
spray the crap out of it, also make sure the MAF is installed the right way, it makes
a difference. Is there a MAP sensor also? I'm not sure if a 16V has one of those also.
As a side note, the O2 sensor reports the rich/lean of the exhaust to the computer
as a +/- voltage (narrow band sensor) so the sensor is working, it's showing what the
exhaust is to the computer, it doesn't control the computer, it just reports what it
see's so the computer can figure out what it needs to do to get the perfect mixture
If you are 16V is it also OBDII??? Have you tried to pull codes??? this can save you
a bunch of time and money on parts
Wild
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Thanks Wild! It is an obd 1 16valve. I have cleaned the maf and swapped in a known good on and didn't change. I have tested all sensors. The injectors I pulled out had gummed up fuel in them so I'm glad I changed them. There isn't a map sensor on there. The thing runs good with the tps unplugged, I don't understand that. This all started when I was driving thru town at light throttle in third gear. Thanks for your help
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It isn't throwing codes either
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OBD1 is really basic, if it's a minor problem like missing it won't
tell you anything.
The TPS part is what is baffling me, because you tested it, of coarse you
checked it for the proper position when you did that, or did you pull it out
of the throttle body? I had a problem on my trucklet, long ago, was the
plug wires, they just needed new ones, was a sort of miss driving down
the freeway, felt like fuel because it would sort of stumble, then pick up
and run OK, but would repeat over and over, but at no predictable interval.
What happens when the spark drops off is the O2 sensor reads unburned
intake charge as lean, even tho if it were to have lit in the cylinder it would
of been a perfect mixture, so the computer goes to work enriching the fuel
mixture and that can lead to more miss fires and more enriching, it's a compounding
circle effect.
Have you done the plugs and wires? even checking for the correct gap? cleaning
and wires might be all that's wrong, and seeing you have ruled out all the hard stuff
that might be causing the computer to make it run bad, this might be it.
Also one last thought, oil or water down in the spark plug holes on a 16V could
be causing miss fires from grounding to the head
Wild
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Yes, I agree with you. I did new tune-up and even went back to the wires and such that came with the engine, it was all new stuff. I swapped in my old distributor and it ran the same. I'm leaning on the ignition module but they usually go or blow. I'm really experienced with the chevy cars and trucks and the h.e.I. Module will blow or some times it will just send the dwell all over the place and kind of run like mine. I checked the spark plug hols and the are dry. I swapped out tps sensors and readjusted per haines manual(scary). I think something is causing the computer to lean and richen the mixture,(you said that) and when I unplug the tps it quits. The GIGO you mentioned. I'm really leaning toward the module but something is telling me in the back of my mind, Not It! I would be throwing more money at the wrong thing. I wish I new someone that had one I could try!
Thanks for all of your help. It is greatly appreciated!
Kj
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I wanted to add that when I hold a steady 1800rpm it will run a little and then go dead for a second just has if you turned the key of and then back on.
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Have you monitored fuel pressure at the same time as the
engine is running and dieing? how about air filter and fuel filter?
Also try to watch the spark when this dieing is happening, I have
seen a spark monitor that lights up so you can see when the spark
is hitting the plug, put it on the coil wire and watch it
I'm just throwing some ideas out there beyond what we have covered
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where are located? the little box is also call an igniter
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Yeah that is it. I'm thinking I'm going to do the coil first and the igniter second. I live in monmouth, OR
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I put my MSD blaster ss coil on this evening and it ran better but it didn't fix the problem so I'm going to go get an ignitor tomorrow
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little to far vor me i was thinking if you where close i have a spare coil and igniter off topic have you herd of the wee tee farm? i mix potting soil for them at my work
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try unplugging speedometer, sounds crazy I know but its a ez test. if your problem goes away let me know. 8)
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Unplug the speed sensor? Lol!
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Is the wee tee farm? Is it in independence? The module was a waste of 90 bucks but I knew it would
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Thanks fordguy. I put a light on the coil wire and it is cutting out a little and when it goes dead it looks like it is a solid light on my timing light. I also put the spark pick-up on every wire and it sparks at tdc with every wire. And it has a very fast spark for being at idle. It is staging a little, hanging at 1500rpm and then it just drops! I will check the fuel pressure when it dies for a second.
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Stop getting overwhelmed by this and check the regular simple stuff first.
Check the + voltage going to the coil, see if it's dropping to 0
Wild
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did you try unplugging the speedometer? that was a serious post, I know an old snow bird that could not get his 4door to run right until he unplugged it, he spent countless hours on it until he figured that out, something to do with the computer interface maybe? now it runs perfect. ez test......
I know it sounds nuts but he swears by it!
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It didn't do the trick! I'm pulling my hair out! Thanks for the input!
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Could it be the ignition switch not making constant
contact and cutting the power to the ignition system / coil?
Wild
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I got another 4 door out here with alot of the same gremilins buddy tried everything, finally a toolbox,engine hoist and a 2.0 liter will fix the problem. LoL!! 8)
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Hey wild, I did think of that too but it has steady voltage,fuel pressure and alt voltage while doing the cut out. When I put the timing light on the coil wire it was showing some intermittent flashing that whent away when I unplugged the TPS, it runs good now. The voltage to the fuel pump is staying up too. It could be another sensor? But I don't know which one. I'm done, my back can't take any more bending over the hood! I had the computer shipped off and it tested good. I guess I don't understand why it would run much better without the tps hooked up! This all came on one day while driving thru town! If somebody wouldn't mind looking at it to see what it is doing, I would appreciate it!
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Good one Jluck! I was thinking the same thing! I might megasquirt it! For some reason the computer is leaning out the engine when I back probed the oxygen sensor! The voltage was going from .18 to .83.
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Have you taken of the distributor cap to look for something in the body
of the distributor? that year might have a reluctor wheel that is being
fouled up by a foreign object floating around in there
Wild
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Good one Jluck! I was thinking the same thing! I might megasquirt it! For some reason the computer is leaning out the engine when I back probed the oxygen sensor! The voltage was going from .18 to .83.
The sensor interface is very high impedance, putting a multi-meter across the sensor may well affect the voltage. Do you know the impedance of the meter?
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I changed distibutors as well as made sure it was clean. I don't know the impedence. I just gronded the neg. To a bolt and the positive to the blue wire of O2. Thank you
Kj
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OK, when everything else fails to fix the problem, check all the grounds,
including the battery to the body and the wires that go with it.
Wild
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Lol, I read your mind. It was the last thing I tried!I also added another wire from the engine to the fire wall. Is there any grounds that may be really hard to see? I did the grounds under the dash too. Thanks wild!
Kj
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I have a bundle of wires that works the EFI, and they bolt to the distributor,
somewhere around 6 individual wires, all black on my trucklet
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I see you have a ported MAF, how did you do that???
is there a possibility you did some damage to it? remember
that was one of the first things I suggested to check
Wild
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I have 2 grounds that bolt to the back of the manifold that are gounds for the injectors. They didn't look the greatest so I cleaned them really good! The others on the firewall looked ok but I cleaned them too. The maf tested good but I put the stock maf back on with no change. The ported maf made a noticeable power difference. My brother did the work on it. His ran good until he blew the engine at the fall classic 2 years ago or so.
Thanks
Kj
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Man, you got to be getting tired, short of a rebuild seems like you have
done everything to fix the problem.
The only thing I can say is monitor the fuel pressure, spark, power to the coil
and the injector pulse width, and when it acts stupid see which one is causing
the problem.
I think you have a bad electrical connection, somewhere in the ignition circuit,
either power to the coil or power to the computer or the ignition signals to or
from the ignitor, something is causing your spark to drop, (as you noticed when testing)
and all the parts have been changed out with no difference in the problem
You have a mystery on your hands
Wild
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I think you are right. I will go over that with a fine tooth comb. I did put my msd coil on to try it but it didn't fix the problem. Its just weird! Do you know what the voltage should be in the orange wire coming out if the ignitor?
Thanks
Kj
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Nope, my ignitor is inside the distributor, different setup.
16V distributors have the trigger inside, but the electronics
aren't
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Is their anybody out there close to the salem or corvallis area that would let me try their 16v 5 spd computer to determine if that is the problem??
Thanks
Kevin
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I thought you had the computer tested and it was OK?
I seriously doubt it's the computer tho
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It did test good. I checked the distributor even though I knew it was good because I changed it out with no change. I'm getting desperate and thought it wouldn't hurt to try one!
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Is their anybody out there close to the salem or corvallis area that would let me try their 16v 5 spd computer to determine if that is the problem??
Thanks
Kevin
Why don't you get together with Eric, that's where he is
Wild
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Have you checked the noise suppressor?
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Rhinoman, I know nothing about the noise suppressor? Where would it be? Thank you
Kj
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Noise suppressor isn't fixing it.
Thanks
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When it cuts out does the rev counter shut down immediately or slown down with the engine
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It slows down with the motor. I went and bought a new multi meter last night, it looks like both tps' are bad