ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: likinit2 on September 22, 2010, 10:22:59 PM
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Ok Guys..... This is where I'm at. I bought a 92 tracker from a guy who bought it from another guy with the head removed because it had a blown head gasket. It supposedly ran when parked and dissembled. Now the Guy I bought it from put the motor back together with a new Head gasket etc and couldn't get it to start, subsequently he lost interest and sold it to me. First thing i checked was the timing and found the distributor was 180' off. squirt some gas into the tbi and it will fire and run until it runs out. So I check and no fuel pressure. New pump, strainer, filter, tank (it had been sitting for four years) and fuel regulator and I have good fuel pressure. still no start and no fuel coming out of injector. I swap injectors with another Track and it works fine. I have power to the injection circuit at the fuse box, I swapped the ecu boxes on the fire wall, swapped Distributors and coils, swapped relays on passenger side on fender, found a couple more to swap under the dash as well. Everything I have swapped has worked just fine in my other Tracker. It looks like there are a couple more relays or something mounted above the fuse panel under the dash and will swap those when I get time. Am I missing anything that could be related to the head removal and reassembly? When I turn the key on the fuel pump will run for a few seconds like it supposed to and shuts off. Anyway, let me know if you have any idea what is going on here and yes, I will send who knows the problem and or corrective steps to take to solve it 25.00...... TIA! This Tacker has me beat down and humbled.....
Mike ???
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Was the ECU you swapped from the same year and transmission type?
Did you crack the old ECU and look at the board? I would bet the Capacitors
leaked and corroded the traces that power the injector
Wild
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I swapped out the ecu's they both work and both are same year and both are automatics.
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does the fuel pump run when you cycle the key? if not, start at the fuse and chase it back to the tank. common things to look for are the fuel pump relay and corroded wires behind the driver tail light.
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If I had to guess - there are probably some ground wires that ground the ECU to the intake manifold, and those weren't reconnected.
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If I had to guess - there are probably some ground wires that ground the ECU to the intake manifold, and those weren't reconnected.
Also check the green/black wires at Brake Master cylinder (for one or a group not grounded), these grounds do affect the main power relay and fuel injection. Also double check fuses, the larger ones by battery and small ones under dash.
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OK, ECU is good and confirmed, is the injector harness plugged in to the main harness? or verify
the pins are all making contact?
I'm referring to the big plug not the 2 pin that's right at the injector
Wild
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does the fuel pump run when you cycle the key? if not, start at the fuse and chase it back to the tank. common things to look for are the fuel pump relay and corroded wires behind the driver tail light.
Yes, fuel pump works and I have good pressure.
"If I had to guess - there are probably some ground wires that ground the ECU to the intake manifold, and those weren't reconnected."
The cluster of grounds is conected, I swapped out the large fuses with my other Track and all is well. I checked the connectors and followed wires all the way back to under the dash. looks like I'll have to get to the relays under the dash above the fuse block. I'm not looking foreword to it as I had back surgery 6 weeks ago...... So, ya.... Everything I have been doing is pretty much in slow motion. Thanks for the input, I was really hoping I overlooked the obvious somewhere. I guess I need to get to the wires coming from the injector and the distributor under the dash and check continuity. So much for a quick easy project, I'm just happy it is my time working on this...... Looks like I work pretty cheap!
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Check the noise suppressor on the bulkhead. The brown wire is the signal to the tach and is also used by the ECU to confirm that its sparking, if it doesn't see a spark it will kill the fuel.
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??? Alright, so who got paid? anyone figure this out?
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Have you actually hooked a gauge up to test the fuel pressure (should be up around 40psi)? If so and it checks out within spec, I'd say you aren't getting an injector firing pulse.
Have you got old, crappy gas in the tank and lines. Or did you clean all the old out and put new in?
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Nobody has been paid yet, Yes it has fresh gas, new delphi fuel pump, new fuel strainer, new fuel filter,fuel lines were cleaned out before reconnecting them, swapped fuel pressure regulator with my other geo, swapped ecu's, swapped distributors and coils including noise suppressor and swapped injector and TPI. Yes the grounds are all connected and fuses have been checked and I have power to the fuse box for the fuel injection. The fuel pump runs for the same amount of time as my other geo's when I turn the key on, i have not put a gauge on the fuel line for actual pressure but it acts just the same as my other geo when disconnecting the fuel line or taking out the injector. So, Yes, as near as I can tell I am not getting a signal to the injector because no gas will come out and it is not opening. I have not had time to get under the dash or try to test for a signal at the injector yet as I have been busy taking care of other things for the last couple weeks instead of wasting more time on this thing and not getting anything done.
Thanks for the Ideas, anymore? Keep them coming. I will Pay the bounty and post what it was when I get er going! Thanks again!
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Check the continuity of both the injector to the computer wires, sounds like
you have a break or corroded connector in there someplace
Wild
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The best to check for injector trigger is a noid light, if you can get your hands on one. If your fuel pump does run when the key is first turned on but stops it sounds like a cam or crank sensor issue. without one signal or the other your fuel pump will not continue to run and fuel injectors will not fire.
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Ya, except that year Track/Kick doesn't have those sensors
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If your fuel pump does run when the key is first turned on but stops it sounds like a cam or crank sensor issue. without one signal or the other your fuel pump will not continue to run and fuel injectors will not fire.
If you are talking about when the key is turned to "run"....the trackicks only run the fuel pump for 3 seconds, then shut it off....until you turn the key to "start" to try to start the engine, then it starts the fuel pump again.
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I Have still not had a lot of time to work on it but when I have I still can't seem to come up with anything. I had to change a heater core in my sons 2000 chevy tracker so I'm not in a real good mood, at least I won that round but I feel like "Rocky" after a fight. Back to the problem Geo, I can have someone crank it over and as long as I drizzle gas down the intake it purrs like a kitten. It is starting to get cold and all I had was water in it so I put some antifreeze in it and let it run for a few minutes with a manual gasoline add. I don't have a noid light but the injector worked just fine in my other geo. I think I have to find a bad wire or something. I was really hoping somebody had the same thing happen and had a quick cure.
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You can rent (pay a deposit, get it back when you return it) a noid light test kit from several auto parts stores (oreillys and autozone, rent them here). That way you can see if you are getting an injector pulse (my guess is that you aren't...so I would just skip to the checks below).
If you are not (or if you don't want to do the noid light test), you need to check the wires coming from the ECM to the injector for continuity (disconnect battery, hook one meter lead to the wire at the ecm connector, hook the other lead to the wire at the injector connector). Check both injector wires. If either injector wire doesn't have continuity, then you need to find out where it is broken (it could be the actual wire, it could be that it isn't making good connection in a connector). You should be able to isolate where the problem is without unwrapping the wiring harness.
Another thing you need to check is to make sure the red injector wire isn't shorted to ground. To check this, hook one meter lead to the red wire, hook the other meter lead to a good ground source. If you have continuity, then the wire is shorted and you need to find out where it is shorted and correct it. If it is shorted to ground, once you correct the issue, you need to check all the fuses again, as it could have blown a fuse.
I am still not sold on the fact that you have good fuel pressure/supply. If nothing else, at least do this check.....pull the metal fuel line off the back of the TBI, have someone turn the key to run, while you hold the end of the line in a container. It should pump a full stream of gas for 3 seconds, until the fuel pump kicks off. It should be about 3 to 4 oz. of fuel. If the fuel stream dribbles or sputters, then you have a problem with fuel supply...either a pump that is only half-ass working, or a restriction in the line somewhere (or low fuel level...but I am sure you made sure to put enough gas in (at least 2 gallons in a completely empty tank) that you wouldn't have that problem, right?). If that test checks out, have someone try to start the engine while you hold the fuel line in a container again....the fuel pump should start pumping a full stream again, as soon as the key is turned to start.
I know all of this probably looks like a lot of stuff to check, but it really shouldn't take you more than about 30 minutes to check everything I listed.
Let us know what you find.
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Thanks, sorry for taking so long to get back. I will rent a noid light and see where that gets me. I did several checks on the electrical trying to see where I should have power and shouldn't with my other geo. I have power to the CAS and when cranking my meter did fluctuate when checking the injector wires. I will also get a pressure gauge on the fuel line so I can totally rule out fuel supply. We're not done here yet and I'll go through the list on the last post here. Thanks for your time! I hope I can pay this 25.00 to somebody..... This is really amazing, i have never been so patient with a dead end project like this before.
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Change out your injector plugs. I've had this problem before in other vehicles and the plugs were always to blame. If it's been sitting, there could be a short goin on because the plugs are dry rotted.
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Maybe its the key switch sounds like you tried every thing else
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Was the ECU you swapped from the same year and transmission type?
Did you crack the old ECU and look at the board? I would bet the Capacitors
leaked and corroded the traces that power the injector
Wild
My bad............ I thought the black box on the firewall was the ecu. not until I finally got my back limber enough to get to the other box above the fuse block did I notice my stupidity. thanks for all the help guys! I had the box rebuilt, plugged it in and she fired right up! So.... Wild if you have a paypal email I will send you 25.00. you guessed it first. PM me!
Mike