ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: AJMBLAZER on September 28, 2010, 07:16:05 PM
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Need some thoughts here. Haven't investigated it further than trying to operate it. Also don't have a maintenance manual yet.
2002 Tracker, manual t-case, 5 speed manual transmission behind a 2.0L 4cyl. 93,000 miles and seems to have led a pretty sedate life. I bought it from nprecon in August and he said it was stiff shifting several years ago when he got it but never used it.
2hi, 4hi, and neutral work just fine. However when I try to push it forward from neutral into 4lo it's like hitting a wall. Pushing on the lever to the point where I want to back off does nothing. I think I could lean on it with all my weight and only break something in the linkage.
Pushing it forward like this does make the 4wd light come on.
Thoughts?
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make sure the clutch is in and ur not moving
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Try to roll the the tracker 1 or 2mph in neutral then shift the transfercase. Do not go slow do it one shift.
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No and no. Definitely not a procedural issue. It's like hitting a wall when I push the lever forward after moving it to the left. WHACK. WON'T. GO. ANY. FARTHER. FORWARD.
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take the plastic bezzel out and remove the shifter boot(s) and make sure nothing has bunched up between the shifter and the body, also, its possible that its been an an accident that has caused some thing to shift and obstruct the shifter.
also, there is no linkage, its a top shift t-case, you can also take the shifter out of the t-case once you have removed the boots, and see if anything looks broken inside. there is also a spring at the bottom of the shifter that can break and can cause a jam.
hope this helps
-Lance
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Hope this helps:
(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy221/ianmlinden/GV-TC-Shifting.jpg)
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............ I bought it from nprecon in August and he said it was stiff shifting several years ago when he got it but never used it.
Thoughts?
My first thought is a rule of thumb.
Money eating butt monkeys breed in sellers buts, as in: "It was working when I blah, blah, blah,...BUT........" >:D
I'm being very sarcastic since nprecon was completely up front about the trouble and the two of you are clear eyed adults. ;)
Hope this helps:
([url]http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy221/ianmlinden/GV-TC-Shifting.jpg[/url])
Awesome!
Before doing even this, I'd drain the T-case and check both the fluid and inside the case with my finger for any bits, chunks or excessive metal.
No point in pulling apart the interior if the t-case has got to come out.
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I did drain the gear oil that was in it out and put in the proper Synchromesh that GM calls for. Nothing odd came out, the oil didn't look too dark or anything.
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As AJM stated it shifted "stiff" when I trial drove it at the Honda dealership I bought it from in Richmond Indiana. I had owned five Track/Kicks up to that point and didn't recall having one that shifted that "stiff"... but it did go into gear and it did drive out fine and I simply attributed the stiffness to the PO not using the 4-Lo drive. No record of it being in an accident that I am aware of. One of the reasons I bought the truck was the body and frame was in excellent shape with virtually NO rust, plus it had the quarter panels Zeibarted. Hindsight is great but I can't turn back time. Would've should've told the Honda salesperson I wouldn't buy it until it shifted "smoothly". After the purchase it became stiffer and stiffer until the point where it wouldn't shift into 4Lo and I did explain this to AJM prior to the sale. If Scout had been in perfect mechanical shape (4-Lo working) he would have been a bit more expensive.
I did pull the seats and I did dis-assemble the low range shifter, removed the boots and shifter and visually inspected the end and the ball. The inside appeared clean and I didn't observe any obstructions or foreign objects in the socket area. After inspecting it I looked in my FSMs and speculated a spring or detente was plugged/jammed and reassembled it for another day. This was my secondary Tracker at this time. Spoke to a local mechanic who theorized it was possible for a spring or detente to be the culprit, but didn't go any farther with it.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/suzuki-grand-vitara-vitara-chevy-tracker-(gen-2-platform)-1999-2005/sticking-transfer-case-shifter/ (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/suzuki-grand-vitara-vitara-chevy-tracker-(gen-2-platform)-1999-2005/sticking-transfer-case-shifter/)
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So, update on this.
In September of '10 I replaced all the transmission and t-case fluid with Castrol Synchromesh fluid as the owner's manual calls for it.
Thinking that has either been revised or GM flubbed there when they printed the manual. It shifted better than it had when I got it but not noticeably better and was still slow and notchy between shifts. T-case would still not go into Lo. Just lived with it and drove it like that.
I think at some point someone put 75w90 GL5 rated gear lube into it. The proper fluid for both, as recommended by Chevy in the FSM and Suzuki in their FSM, is 75w90 GL4 gear lube. GL5 is for diffs, GL4 is for transmissions and transfer cases...DO NOT PUT GL5 INTO TRANSMISSIONS OR T-CASES. It eats at the "yellow metal" parts in there such as the brass/bronze synchronizers. This would explain the rough shifting and t-case issues. I know gear lube was what came out of it in September '10.
My buddy has a Jeep TJ with a 5 speed stick and those are supposed to get Synchromesh but a transmission shop had put 75w90 GL5 into it. We knew this as it started to give him trouble and they gave him a partial bottle of 75w90 GL5 left over from the service. :-\ Wouldn't hold gears, wouldn't go into some gears almost like it was unsynchronized, unhappy sounds...etc etc. Eventually he had to get a new transmission for it.
Fearful of this I started researching my situation and was recommended Red Line MT-90 synthetic oil. Ordered some from Amazon and put it in about a month ago.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CPCBEQ/ref=oh_o01_s00_i00_details (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CPCBEQ/ref=oh_o01_s00_i00_details)
This stuff is miracle fluid!
Immediately my shifts were better and immediately after putting it in, cleaning up the garage, and backing out I was able to put it in 4lo and back up a small hill behind my place. 4lo is back!
I will say while things are better they aren't perfect. The trans is still a bit notchy and fussy and the t-case doesn't easily slip into 4lo like my previous Suzukis have. Still, they're better than they were before. I highly recommend this stuff.
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Just so you're aware of it - I've been running Mobil1 75w90 full synthetic GL5 in the transmission, transfer case & differentials of my '98 Suzuki 2.0 Grand Vitara (basically the same vehicle you're driving) and it's been there for three years now - I have no problems shifting gears or using 4WD - and that includes 4Lo. I did initially have a shifting problem with the transmission, which would crunch if shifted rapidly - that disappeared completely after the clutch was replaced.
I'm also using the same Mobil1 75w90 full synthetic GL5 in the transmission of my '93 Suzuki Siwft 1.3 GLX, and that's what been in there for most of it's life. On that vehicle you can feel the difference between synthetic and conventional oils in the transmission - with the synth, the shift is smooth & slick, like the proverbial hot knife through butter, and that's why I use it.
Yes - some GL5 oils WILL attack the softer "yellow" metals - and destroy the synchro rings. Worn synchro rings will cause slower or "notchy" shifting in your transmission, but it will NOT cause the "hitting the wall" symptoms that you describe with 4Lo - in fact - there is NO synchro ring on the 4Lo engagement hub.
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i bought a 2002 vitara for parts witch the woman had the t-case replaced due to that 4Lo not working, she said it happend a couple of days after she caught a flat on it and replaced it with a tiny bit smaller size tire as she dint have the money to buy a new one right away. then she got stuck in her drive way. she slap her in 4lo and then she said that were it all started. she heard a crunch, she stoped,check around,put it in 2hi, then could not put it back in 4lo.
that what she told me anyways, if its true or not i have no clue, but she did changed the t-case,its very notiable on the underside of it
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Bet the very first owner had towed the tracker a fair amount without disconnecting the driveshaft(or failed to have oil in the TC), they use the same TC as earlier trackicks and anything over a hundred miles or so(I say even a short couple mile tow) will cause abnormal excessive wear.
DO not be fooled by some gear oils that have both GL4 and GL5 labeling, the trans lube must be GL4, TC and diffs GL5, if the oil says it complies with GL4 and GL5, it must ALSO state yellow metal safe or it is not.
BUT regardless of what is used in the trans it has no impact whatsoever on the TC.
I have seen several trackers that are very hard to shift into and out of lo range, rocking the vehicle back and forth should help greatly.
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Hahahahaha. I love the doubt.
There was NO WAY this thing would go into high range. WOULD. NOT. GO. I tried for almost a year every time I thought of it and did all the little BS tricks like rocking it, being slightly moving, clutch pedal in, out, half way down, whatever, and all the stuff I have never had to do on my other 5 Trackers, Grand Vitaras, and XL7's. Even had friends try to see if it was my technique.
Put in the RedLine and poof...works. I dunno why...it just does. I put it in the T-case after reading some of the reviews of it mentioning it making t-cases shift smoother too...figured why not since I was down there.
Viola...it worked!
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Hahahahaha. I love the doubt.
There was NO WAY this thing would go into high range. WOULD. NOT. GO. I tried for almost a year every time I thought of it and did all the little BS tricks like rocking it, being slightly moving, clutch pedal in, out, half way down, whatever, and all the stuff I have never had to do on my other 5 Trackers, Grand Vitaras, and XL7's. Even had friends try to see if it was my technique.
Put in the RedLine and poof...works. I dunno why...it just does. I put it in the T-case after reading some of the reviews of it mentioning it making t-cases shift smoother too...figured why not since I was down there.
Viola...it worked!
lol rev it it up!!! lol id changed the t-case, such a small job to do and would save you a motor job :laugh:
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Why would it save me a motor job?
Actually, what is a motor job? ???
At any rate I'm just glad to have it back. Means when I sell it and get a new 4x4 later this year I won't have to take anything off the price because the t-case is messed up.
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Bet the very first owner had towed the tracker a fair amount without disconnecting the driveshaft(or failed to have oil in the TC), they use the same TC as earlier trackicks and anything over a hundred miles or so(I say even a short couple mile tow) will cause abnormal excessive wear.
The transfer case internals are different - first gen transfer cases have no synchros, second gen has a syncho on the front drive hub, allowing on-the-fly shifting between 2HI & 4HI - the on-the-fly shift is also the reason for the changes to the front axle free-wheel system.
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Curious why they (Suzuki) elected to add the cost of going with the front air pump and actuator design in lieu of staying with the tried and proven manual hubs, which would have been considerably less expensive and require fewer repairs?
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Yuppies.
Drop the lever into 4x4 and be done with it.
Yuppies would complain about having to get out and use the hubs. Hence the autos but we all know how well those worked.