ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: sohip on October 01, 2010, 06:40:50 PM
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I repacked the front with bearings because they were getting hot in 2wd .(Kick-fix.com)
So all is good but for the 1st time I locked the hubs and put it in 4 HI (for the first time ever, I just got it). And there is a whirling gear noise in the front and after driving around at 40 for a while I take it home and the hubs are cooking hot.
In 2wd there are no noises or issues. Ill change the oil in the front axle tomorrow, and see if the whirling goes away. Cant understand the heat from the hubs though.
I got some good used hubs and bearings from a wrecker (mine were rusted and scored). They looked like awesome shape.
Can anyone help ?
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How tight did you put on the bearing nut?
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I think its supposed to be 89 -150 pounds or something.
I just snug tightened by hand and got a drift and tap, tap, taped till it was pretty tight. I have no tool. you think its too tight ? The tires spin easily by hand, just a little drag on the brakes.
Should i loosen it up a bit ?
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Ya, I think it's too tight, hope you didn't fry the bearings.
I would tighten the nut by hand and go to the next hole
in the lock ring, Ya, I know it's supposed to be like 150
lbs but I think that's too tight, and I have almost 300,000
miles on my original bearings, so I must be doing something
right
Wild
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Thanks for helping me again.
thats about 1/16th of a turn... I turned it about 1/4 + ... way too tight. I read that 150 pound and tapped away.
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Ya, well at least you didn't drive it till the wheels fell off ;)
You got to leave room for the grease in there, and if you
mic the grease you will see it has a dimension, and that's the
layer that protects the metal from wear
Wild
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I opened it up repacked with grease front and back bearings and tightened it alot lighter. I hand tightened and turned to the 1st 16th hole and put in the 4 philips screws.
SAME result. the hubs still get cooking hot. Maybe Im an idiot but can these be run at 30-40 in 4wd on the road or is 4x4 only supposed to be used when im stuck and at very low speeds.
Also, is there at bearing where the CV goes into the spindle ? The girl I bought it from NEVER put it in 4x4 for like 4 years. Maybe thats heating up and conducting, i cant even put my hand on the lug nuts after a 15-20 min drive in 4x4 ....
Any ideas ?
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You should be able to drive with hubs locked at any speed for as long as you want.
You are meaning driving with hubs locked and not engaged in 4wd right???
Yes there is a brass bushing inside where the CV axle goes into the hub/knuckle assembly,
and it does need to be greased, but it doesn't need much.
Are you sure you don't have a brake caliper causing dragging pads heating up the whole thing?
I would suspect that first, also what color are the bearings? pitted galled blue at all or shiny and
looked chromed? if they are discolored in any way you might need to replace them.
What is your definition of hand tightened?? using your hand or a socket/ratchet or wrench???
Wild
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No i mean with it engaged in 4x4.... I was testing it driving at 30-40 mph for 15-20 minutes engaged in 4x4.
If i drive with it 2wd and hubs engaged I dont think I will have a problem just a little whirly noise but thats not my concern right now...
The tire spins freely with slight drag of the caliper, very slight and normal. My slide pins work well and let go of the brakes ok.
Hand tight is just spinning the nut on using a small screw driver (through on of the holes) and putting as much pressure as I can which is really not much at all... no tools, no hammering just the pressure in my wrist.
The spindle is blued/brownish and the bearing are slightly discolored but no galling or pitting. Maybe heat has compromised them but the tire turns like butter ?/
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If the spindle is blued it's definitely been overheated, same with the bearings. I can't imagine them being too tight the way your doing it. I know Wild's bearings have to be the worlds longest lasting bearings for sure, and if it works for him, it must be a good way to adjust them. Mine though, I always tighten them to torque recommended in the fsm. I've had loose ones get used up on me.
I don't understand how being in 4wd would make any difference though. Wouldn't the bearings be spinning regardless of wether it's in 2 or 4 wd?
I tend not to run mine in 4wd at higher than 25 or so on dry pavement. On gravel or dirt roads I've hit 60+ in 4wd, but the loose surface allows some slippage of the tires. Maybe it's the running on dry pavement, but that still doesn't explain the spindle getting so hot.
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Yeah, the bearings are turning regardless of 2wd or 4wd but I think they are getting "driven" by the power train and is a little harder on them in 4x4... (?)
I am assuming i can drive my sidekick like I drive my wifes explorer (ie highway speeds in 4 HI) or any new truck I run highway speeds for 200 miles in 4x4 when the weather is cold and maybe a chance will slip on black ice or something. Maybe im just dumb and these are sidekick, trackers arent really made for this type of driving.
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I may be talking the wrong style, but when you re-repacked was there still plenty of grease there or did it exit out the rear seal? Is there any discoloration of the brake disc? Wild or Bent, do these get snugged then backed off then re-snugged to torque spec, or is there another way?
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Medford, There was lots of grease in there. I originally just repacked a week or so ago, no leaking out the back seal.
I had it up with all 4 wheels off the ground and no dragging on the breaks. The spindle was a little loose when I had it apart, thats why i was asking about the CV bushing. Next thing to check maybe that. The spindle wiggles around a bit. Is it supposed to be tight in there ?
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Spindle shouldn't have much play. You got the right two guys (Bent and Wild) helping you with this. I would just hold off a bit and see what they come up with. Are both sides getting hot?
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Both sides, are getting hot >:(
I got the diff bolt off with a pipe wrench since the inside was stripped and it full of oil.
Maybe CV/spindle has too much play... When I had all 4 wheels off the ground and I put the E-BRAKE (lock the back wheels) on and 4 low the front wheels were shaking pretty good, when I gassed it. (If that means anything?)
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Well first off, don't drive in 4wd on dry pavement, water or wet is not good
either but it's better, you want the tires to slip some to prevent binding and
other driveline problems.
With this type of setup you could remove the CV axles and drive the truck without
them in place, but your bearings are shot, and the blue spindles are suspect, so I
would start by replacing anything that is discolored severely.
You need to remove the races also, always replace both parts when you do bearings.
Hand tight like you said should not be heating up like that, so there are friction
problems in there and it's the bearings and races. Also the spindle should not move around
like there is a worn part, make sure the strut bolts are tight, the only other parts that wear
is the lower ball joint, or the taper in the knuckle is roached out and the knuckle is junk, the
spindle also is bolted to the knuckle, so check those bolts too, they are the ones that hold
the brake backing plate on.
Explain the front wheels shaking with the e-brake on? this 4wd system wants to drive the front
and rear drive shaft at the same time, there is no center diff.
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What he said, and I think the spindles should have no play whatsoever.
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Sorrry I used the wrong term in saying spindle, thats all tight and stuff. Just the axle coming threw it has a bit of play in it.
I had it off all the wheels and in 4 HI with the ebrake on the front tires dont turn smoothly. They kind of shake up and down, but I think I might be getting a little too paranoid now.
Ill pull it off and change the races and get new bearings, since the parts I got are from the wreckers. That way Ill know for sure and have a look at the CV's too.
Where can I get a the races and bearings in a kit ? or what are the ones to get.
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Your plan sounds good, I do not know a brand, but if you just go to NAPA and get the good stuff it should do fine. As always wait for Bent and Wild to weigh in before you pull the trigger. As a general rule, unless you have no choice, if you are dealing with a wear part, go new or at least reman. If you don't then you are getting a wear part that has all the unknown miles of the donor vehicle. You are getting near the fix, hang in there.
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Yeah, I guess it doesn't make to much sense to put on a used water pump or used brakes :) The race on my hubs were obviously mangled (rusted, scrored) the other ones I got looked pretty nice but who knows the miles, like you say.
At least I have my old hubs and I can get new races put in with no down time. Ill keep an eye out for a kit with races and everything on these forums.
Its not a huge problem but sometimes it sucks hammering at the same thing over and over again... just a matter of time before I just break down and buy a new car. 35 and never had a new one :'( lots of busted knuckles tho :laugh:
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I feel your pain. 78 F-250 4x4, 96 Tracker, and the "new car" my wife drives 2000 Mazda. I have only purchased one new car and that was 20 years ago when we got married. I will never (unless I win the Lotto) buy another new car again. There are just too many people out there willing the take that depreciation hit for me. >:D If you are in a hurry to get it done send Wild or Bent an email by clicking the envelope under their name. Both of those guys are awesome about helping us not so technical wrenchers out.
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Hey buddy, don't hold your breath waiting for me to chime in with my 2cents worth. I may be off to god knows where! Besides, Medford gives me too much credit I think. :-[
sohip, usually you can go to any reputable auto parts store and get the bearing kits over the counter. I was able to buy mine at Autozone and they were a stock item. Not cheap, but with each bearing set you get the race ( one piece ) and both inner and outer bearings. Don't forget to get the seals too. You'll have to remove the rear seal to get to the circlip holding the inside bearing in, usually rendering it to the shitcan. I have been able to save 'em occasionally but why take the chance. There are 2 seals on the inner part of the hub ( side facing diff .) An inner seal for the bearing itself, and an outer seal that protects the back of the cv. I've sometimes had a hard time finding the outer one, but do replace BOTH. If you don't possess the right tools to do the seals correctly or don't have access to a press or knowledge or daring to pound them in ( I just cringe thinkin' about that ) just get the parts and take them into a local shop with your hubs and let them do it.
Hey Medford, all I can say is me too. Both my wife and I drive 10 year old vehicles, 00 Ford PU, 00 MB 230 Kompressor, at least she bought her's new. Heck my Trackers a 95, my Harley's an 88, and the camper I just got is an 82! I'd love to get something modern!
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Ill call around and see what the tally is. But it would be a lot easier to go down to Honda, drop 400 bucks and drive home in a new Element :laugh:
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The only problem with that is having to drop that $400 every month,
I hate car payments, my primary mover is a 91 Chevy truck, the Zuk is
older by 2 years and has almost as many miles, the "new" car is an 02
Malibu, but only cause some #$|removethispart|@%#$ stole the 98 Cavalier and drove
is like they stole it, my new camper is a '76 but it was free :)
On a sad note, the Chevy started making a whining noise in the transmission,
up and down with engine speed, I think it's the pump but I'm not sure, shifts
ok but tonight on the way home it wouldn't shift into overdrive on the freeway
>:(
Any Chevrolet experts out there? If it were my Suzuki I would know what it was
Wild
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Bent- every stinking thread I read that is of interest to me you are there helping some pour guy out of a jam. I don't think too much credit has been given, keep it up. Like the ripple in a pond, even if you were not talking directly to me I learn from what you coach.
Wild- all I can say is Ford! ;D Like a 1978 F-250 super cab with a 4" Skyjacker lift and a gas sucking over built 460! >:D This is my tow vehicle that is expensive to fill up, but as reliable as a good dog. This is almost as big as a debate among firemen as Gerber verses Leatherman. In all seriousness I pray your Chevy woes are cheap and easy. Thanks for all the help you provide all of us non zuki guys!
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I have a Ford F-350 Crewcab tow/fun truck, but I didn't want to
subject it to work duty, and the 460 is nice, but I got a 444 also
known as PowerStroke ;D pulls like a beast, about 12 MPG loaded
going to Moab
Wild
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12 mpg to Utah, I bet it is the same to Plush, Oregon. Let me know when that turbo will be there. I will make every effort to come see it and take my own pics of your center link.
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Thanks Medford, kind words for sure. GO FORDS!
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Hey small world. I got a 444 too. 2002 PSD 7.3 crew short SRW. The 4R100 is blown out of it and Im doing a ZF6 swap this winter (I got a "spare" donor truck). Thats is my "new" vehicle but has been a lawn orniment for over a year now. Gotta get by with the $600 sidekick. I must confess I do love the "light" feel of the sidekicks and the fuel economy :angel:
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A few questions (don't take these the wrong way...I don't know your mechanical background...so that is why I am asking).
Do you know how to repack wheel bearings? What method do you use?
If you jack a front wheel off the ground and rock the wheel (top and bottom and side to side), is there any play at all?
Did you keep the bearings matched up with their races, when you swapped them?
If you spin the front wheels, with them off the ground, do they spin smoothly, without any unusual noises?
As long as the bearing rollers and races are not discolored....and....
If the bearing rollers and the bearing surface of the races are smooth and not pitted.....and.....
If the bearings don't have any obvious damage to them (bent cage is the most common).......
then they are likely good.
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Maybe CV/spindle has too much play... When I had all 4 wheels off the ground and I put the E-BRAKE (lock the back wheels) on and 4 low the front wheels were shaking pretty good, when I gassed it. (If that means anything?)
I have a problem with the above statement. Are you saying that when you had it in 4wd (with the wheels off the ground), and the ebrake was on, that the rear tires would not move, but the front ones would?
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I reread the thread again and if I understand correctly....the wheels/hubs only get hot with it in 4wd and/or the hubs locked in, right? If the hubs are not turned to "lock" or the tcase is not in 4wd, then the wheels/hubs do not get hot, right?
If that is the case, then it sounds like a problen with where the axleshaft comes through the spindle. Like wildgoody said, there is a brass bushing inside the spindle. If, for some reason, there is no grease on that bushing, then it is possible that the axleshaft is grinding against that bushing and causing things to heat up.
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I think you are right about this bushing. I will have to look at it this weekend. Will it basicly be taking the same parts, apart as the bearing or can I just pull the whole spindle off ?
When I got the other bearings I mixed up which ones came with the races.
When I had it off the ground in 4HI and the ebrake on the front tires only would spin. Is this supposed to be impossible ? Maybe I grabbed the wrong cigrette out of my pack :o
The tires spin great when off the ground... just a little drag from rubbing on the brake but nothing in the bearings area
Thanks for the help
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The e-brake only locks up the rear end. So having only the front spinning makes sense. The heat is the wonderment.
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The e-brake only locks up the rear end. So having only the front spinning makes sense.
No, it doesn't. If the tcase is in 4wd, then at least 1 tire on each axle is supposed to spin....think about it. ;)
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Ok, This could be very true because I only looked from the drivers side. So the front right (passenger) could have been wheeling. I was just looking out the drivers side, pushing on the gas.
I actually looked at a new bearings at NAPA and holy Sh*t. It looks like one piece bearing (2) and the race. Mine all just all came apart in my hands.
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Uhh, you got wasted bad bearings, those weren't fit to beat your
dog with, good thing you were paying attention, it could of got real bad
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sky, school me up here, I am an open ear student. The E-brake is not mechanical linkage that only locks the rear? Be gentle here you have a new impressionable student.
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In 4wd both front and rear drive shafts must turn, so if the parking brake
is set, one rear wheel must turn if the front is turning, unless you have a
locker, then both rear wheels will turn against the brake and turn the front
drive shaft and at least one front wheel
Hope this makes sense
Wild
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sky, school me up here, I am an open ear student. The E-brake is not mechanical linkage that only locks the rear? Be gentle here you have a new impressionable student.
In 4wd both front and rear drive shafts must turn, so if the parking brake
is set, one rear wheel must turn if the front is turning, unless you have a
locker, then both rear wheels will turn against the brake and turn the front
drive shaft and at least one front wheel
Hope this makes sense
Wild
What wild said.
Yes, the ebrake is a mechanical linkage that locks the rear tires. But...
The front and rear axles (driveshafts) are locked together, when the tcase is in 4wd. So if one tire on one axle is turning (via engine power), then at least one tire on the other axle must turn as well.
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Makes perfect sense. I was not including the transfer case factor. At times I can be a bit of a tard, and other times I can really be a tard. I get what you guys are saying.
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So I guess with the Ebrake (and gassing) I was just smoking my brake lining on the passenger side when I had it in the air, oops..
Anyway, I was too busy to do anything with the bearing issue but I picked up a whole parts kick for 200 bucks from just up the road. The guy kept blowing the fuel injector fuse and just gave up on it. Its exactly like mine but has power windows but rust-ola to the max. I dont even think its worth messing with, Ill just pull out the motor/axels ditch the body. Ill pull all odds and ends I can get out in a day. Finally I can get a new glovebox latch (drives me crazy) and good door handle maybe even get my fuel gauge working :laugh:
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Tip Of The Day ............
Don't ever slam your glove box shut, close it nice by pulling the handle when you close it
and it will last for 21 years like mine has ;)
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my 97 tracker is doing the same thing 2wd no whirling sound hubs locked anything about 10 mph it starts making that same noise, gotta do the bearings i guess good thing i stumbled upon this thread
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Tip Of The Day ............
Don't ever slam your glove box shut, close it nice by pulling the handle when you close it
and it will last for 21 years like mine has ;)
I've kinda used that same philosophy with every car I've ever driven...always makes perfect sense.
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I learned it by watching my dad, he slammed the doors
and they would pop back open or he would put tape
or silicone on them to hold them shut :P
Wild
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So I guess with the Ebrake (and gassing) I was just smoking my brake lining on the passenger side when I had it in the air, oops..
Anyway, I was too busy to do anything with the bearing issue but I picked up a whole parts kick for 200 bucks from just up the road. The guy kept blowing the fuel injector fuse and just gave up on it. Its exactly like mine but has power windows but rust-ola to the max. I dont even think its worth messing with, Ill just pull out the motor/axels ditch the body. Ill pull all odds and ends I can get out in a day. Finally I can get a new glovebox latch (drives me crazy) and good door handle maybe even get my fuel gauge working :laugh:
Hey before you haul that rig to the scrappers, I'd buy the power window stuff ( all of it, motors, regs, wiring and switches ) from you.
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Sorry to bring an old thread back to life, just wondering what ever happened to this issue. Could the whirlilng sound be the manual hub mechanism. I know on my 1990 kick, I pretty much exhausted every part in the front end and was still getting the whirling sound and as soon as I replaced the locking hub, all went away!!
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Yeah, he never did say if he got it sorted out.
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Sorry guys, I havn't touched the sidekick since I posted this long, long ago.
I straightened out the bearing/heating up issue. And drove it all winter and no probs.
That whirling issue is still there when I lock up the hubs tho, I just live with it, drive it till it blows up I guess. I live up here in canada and we had the worst winter ever ! litteraly tons on snow and i never got stuck once, I just lock and unlock the hubs as needed.
My valves seal leak a bit, so I get smoke at start up and clears up. This makes me feel like a real winner when the neighbors are watching :-[ the steering a little loosey goosey , got typical rust, no fuel gauge, couple busted door handles, 1+ soft shock. Im just not sure if it worth fixing theses little things. Its an auto 4 door which I bought just "in case" wife needed it but she bought a Toyota now. It runs like a sewing machine but kinda losing intrest in it , :-* maybe rekindle the love with a 2 door 5speed in the summer :-*