ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: heiney.5 on November 05, 2010, 12:23:25 PM
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Well here I am again....asking for some more insight.
My steel front axle housing is holding up nicely in my tracker, but now I am finding other things to break. Last weekend I shattered the splines off the passenger side CV, or stub shaft in my case. So now I have to drop the front axle and possibly upgrade to the 26 spline.......
Whats some personal experience with 22 spline vs 26 spline? Ie running lockers and big tires....
Now I know the quick answer is yes the 26 spline is stronger. But at this point do I jump another step, swap out a stronger front axle, or is 26 spline gonna be enough to hold up. I was hoping the factory CV would give before the 22 spline intermetiate shafts.....When I re-read old articles with ppl running 35" pitbulls on trackick frts, I wander what was the weak point there. And I know ppl bust CVs but I have yet to break one....maybe this is because the 22 spline inner is weaker???
Any experience or comments welcome.
<edited- vehicle specs>
5:12 locked frt/rear
33" super aggresive tires
4:1 tcase
5 spd, stock engine
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How about this:
Anyone break a 26spline on the Front of a Sidekick?
My late 22 spline "intermediate" shaft:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/heiney5/Ditch%20Witch/IMG_20101107_175700.jpg)
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I've never done that with a 22 spline. :D
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I've never done that with a 22 spline. :D
lol....fair enough. I guess that is a valid option. Maybe I should stop following 35"+ tires and all those crazy Jeep and Toyota guys.....
Hmm maybe a poll will get quicker counts on 22 vs 26 spline breakage.....any comments welcome. I'm kinda on the fence to driveline upgrades....
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I've broken one 22 spline intermediate shaft but it took years of abuse! My CV joints usually go first. I'm not locked in the front now cause I couldn't keep CV joints in it.
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I haven't broke any axles, but have broke three CV's. I have been running 26 splines and an ARB since the first CV. In your POLL it would be interesting to see how many have broken CV's also.
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I have a feeling that broken CVs are the "norm." But it would be interesting to see comparison votes wise......
I have 4+ Spare driver side CV shaft, which with the Widen mod, is the only shaft I need upfront......Murphy's law I guess follows me, because I have been running them since Season 1 with no breakage.
Below is a picture of an "original" intermiate shaft for the "driver side." They came from the junkyard and one has torch damage...This does show a visible comparison, and it is noticeable that the 26spline is bigger. Also the 26spline is not "reduced" down at the splines. But I still wander if I would break them....
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/heiney5/Ditch%20Witch/26vs22shaft.jpg)
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I've only broke a long side 22
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I misunderstood, I voted that I broke a 26-spline yes but I actually broke the CV on a 26-spline.
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I misunderstood, I voted that I broke a 26-spline yes but I actually broke the CV on a 26-spline.
No worries. So far everyone who voted also posted....so I can get a manual count if needed. I don't think I can "modify" votes without resetting them all...
So I guess no one has posted up that they broke a 26 spline "intermediate" shaft. That's somewhat promising...
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I've never broken any, stub shaft, cv or spline. I guess I'm not trying hard enough ;D Worn out a few though.
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What counts as breaking a CV???
The cage breaking inside and it stops driving or splitting the outer
casing and spitting out the ball bearings???
I have nuked 2 cages, but never under power, they just let go
and stopped working, but I have seen 2 CVs blow wide open and
spit chunks and grease, 35" tires and stock driveline t-case and gears
with a manual trans, but since we swapped out to an auto trans, front
locker and 4.24 t-case gears no more broken Cvs
Wild
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What counts as breaking a CV???
The cage breaking inside and it stops driving or splitting the outer
casing and spitting out the ball bearings???
I guess if the cage brakes, or casing breaks...then that is probably outside of manufacturer specs, and could be considered "breaking." ;)
....but I have seen 2 CVs blow wide open and
spit chunks and grease, 35" tires and stock driveline t-case and gears
with a manual trans, but since we swapped out to an auto trans, front
locker and 4.24 t-case gears no more broken Cvs
Wild
this seems to defy logic.....I would have guessed with the increase torque of some upgrades that you would experience more breakage. Of coarse there are other variables....
Still no feedback on breaking a 26spline....so I'm assuming its a rare case. This might push me to stay with the Zuk frt axle and just upgrade to 26.....
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It's the "other variables " that will get ya. Usually a heavy right foot, not thinking out your line, or just plain attacking an obstacle you know is too much for your rig. I really try and feel what my wheels are doing, and I can tell when I'm at the point where, if push it any further somethings gonna break. It's usually when someone, or a group of someones are egging you on, yelling go for it! Hard to use common sense at that point.
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...or just plain attacking an obstacle you know is too much for your rig. ....
I drive a Tracker, i don't know what this means. ;P
Honestly you are right. But I'm not looking at throwing 37" tires and taking all the flat "service" road trails. I understand there is a threshold and hard use can break anything.....
So how about this for discussion, if we take the "variables" out, and were able to do some sort of bench test. If we kept the CV within normal operating range and everything is in good shape, then you increased driveline torque. What would break first? Would we get results like this?:
1. 22 spline break before CV
2. CV fail before 26 spline
I'm just thinking Suzuki decided to upgrade to 26 spline, within the first gen tracker years, but kept the same CVs?
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The logic goes like this in breakage, and Bentparts hit it on the head, the locker in
front increased the traction available, and the lower gears added a finesse factor
that was missing with higher gears, that with the added cushion the automatic gives
to the driveline the breakages have stopped.
This was/is not my truck it's Wicky something I can't remember his screen name's truck,
we did the swap to auto after I told him about the lack of breakage on my truck, in fact
I converted him over to his Tracker from a fullsize Ramcharger because my truck performed
better >:D
Looking back, I broke the longside 22 spline because of lack of gearing, 4.62s stock T-case
on 33 Swamper LTBs and no front locker, since changing to 5.83s I have had no problems,
and now with the full gear package and 26s up front I don't worry about axle breakage, tho
I'm sure I could nuke them if I drove it wrong
Wild
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I guess its a difference between knowing your limits and pushing your limits....Really at this point I am just looking to move the weak link to the CV. I actually want to break CVs. It beats dropping an axle and digging out spline remains.
I know from past readings that ppl run "upgraded" CVs; ie nissan, toyota, or think about making custom (like Wilds past TORA thoughts). I would assume your not going to upgrade a CV if you keep busting intermediate shafts.... So I guess in these scenarios they must all be on 26 spline.....even in this thread no one mentions problems with the 26 spline intermediate shaft.
Since I only wheel with mainly non-zuki ppl, my feedback can't come local. So I turn to this site for responses/experience, I appreciate all the comments and I'm open to any others.
BTW- Does anyone know the spline count on the "CV shaft"? (ie the shaft between both CVs) Is this the same on all years of the first Gen trackicks?
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That's a good question, I didn't consider that, but also I had never
seen a CV axle portion nuke, just the other parts of the CV
Wild