ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: fordem on December 09, 2010, 07:34:04 AM
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Not really a Suzuki specific question, but I'll ask it anyway.
On another Suzuki forum a member was looking for help tracking down a part number, and was reluctant to provide a VIN/Chassis number when requested - citing security as this reason.
Bearing in mind that if you were to park your vehicle in a publicly accessible parking lot, your VIN number is available to any member of the public walking by the vehicle - who would then have access to both the vehicle and the VIN, rather than just the VIN alone - what could be done with that information.
US Federal requirements mandate that on a vehicle weighing 4536 kg or less the VIN be readable, through the glazing, by a person standing adjacent to the left windscreen pillar.
Am I being naive - or - is the other forum member being paranoid ?
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I'd say paranoid. Like you say, anyone walking by on the street can get your VIN.
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You can look up the full history of the car and check to see if it has been stolen. I'm not sure if you can pull up the licensing info off of the vin or not and get a full address, but I wouldn't doubt it.
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I believe you can see where it has been registered. But from what I remember, you won't see any owners names or addresses. Again, anyone walking by on the street can get your VIN and run it through a carfax type search......not really a big deal, IMO. I would think they could find out more personal info about you by running your license plate number, than the vehicle VIN.
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What is secure? :police:
http://www.wreg.com/videobeta/?watchId=8ba6f8fc-90a2-4711-90ea-1884ec348310 (http://www.wreg.com/videobeta/?watchId=8ba6f8fc-90a2-4711-90ea-1884ec348310)
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What is secure? :police:
[url]http://www.wreg.com/videobeta/?watchId=8ba6f8fc-90a2-4711-90ea-1884ec348310[/url] ([url]http://www.wreg.com/videobeta/?watchId=8ba6f8fc-90a2-4711-90ea-1884ec348310[/url])
Wow. Glad I don't have any cards like that.
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The VIN isn't visible on most Euro cars, if you can read the VIN and the registration number then you can clone the vehicle.
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Well, you could have a key made for it based on the VIN number. That is if you can convince the Stealership that you are the owner....... :-\
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The VIN isn't visible on most Euro cars, if you can read the VIN and the registration number then you can clone the vehicle.
What do you mean "clone the vehicle"? The original poster was in Europe.
My GV is not a US market vehicle and so does not display the VIN at the base of the windscreen, but, it's on the frame rail behind the front wheel, clearly visible if you know where to look.
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Its not uncommon for criminals to make false registration plates with another vehicles number. They are usually caught because the VIN doesn't match the number plate, if they have the VIN as well then the number on the frame can be restamped and a new plate fitted under the bonnet. Unless the 'real owner' receives a speeding or parking ticket for the vehicle then they often won't ever know the vehicle has been cloned.
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I'm a little puzzled here, and I will admit to a lack of familiarity with UK vehicle registrations - although I'm pretty certain that, being a former british colony, our registration system is based on the british system.
What would be the advantage of such a cloning?
Here - false number plates might be used to temporarily disguise a vehicle (usually a white or yellow Toyota) during the commission of a crime, but I believe that is done using a randomly selected number, with no consideration as to matching the vehicle type, and I believe it's fairly common practice among some motorcyclists to use a single registration number for several bikes.
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IF you are "in the loop", you can find out the history of the vehicle, past/present owner, lien if any, and as a REAL kicker, you can also "force" a title on it through the court system under certain circumstances. How is that for "What could I do with your VIN..."?
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I hope those certain circumstances are tightly controlled by the courts - given the ease with which a VIN can be obtained in the US.
By the way - if I'm not mistaken the reason the feds mandate the VIN be easily accessible is make the identification of stolen vehicles easier for the authorities - it would be ironic if the same ease of access also made it easier to steal the vehicle in the first place.
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Well, you could have a key made for it based on the VIN number. That is if you can convince the Stealership that you are the owner....... :-\
They are supposed to ask for proof of ownership....such as an actual title. If they don't, and they make a key, then they would be liable if the car is stolen with a copied key.
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They are supposed to ask for proof of ownership....such as an actual title. If they don't, and they make a key, then they would be liable if the car is stolen with a copied key.
Oh I know.... but then again if I were a thief attempting to do this I most likely wouldn't care. Based on todays state of business I can only imagine how easily this is done.
So far from this post I could:
Look up the history of the vehicle.Insert
Make a false registration plates with another vehicles number.
Restamped the frame number and a place a new VIN plate on the chassis.
You could "force" a title on it through the court system.
Can have a key made for it.
and this my friends is how "Chop Shops" thrive and continue operate.....
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Oh I know.... but then again if I were a thief attempting to do this I most likely wouldn't care. Based on todays state of business I can only imagine how easily this is done.
So far from this post I could:
Look up the history of the vehicle.Insert
Make a false registration plates with another vehicles number.
Restamped the frame number and a place a new VIN plate on the chassis.
You could "force" a title on it through the court system.
Can have a key made for it.
and this my friends is how "Chop Shops" thrive and continue operate.....
Well, the "thief" would have to be the dealership, if they would make a key without seeing proof of ownership.
One other thing you need to consider is that you are talking about a tracker/sidekick. How desireable are these to "clone" or be stolen for a "chop shop". I can think of several other vehicles I would rather clone or chop before I would a trackick.
So going back to my original post, I still think the person is being paranoid about giving up the VIN to make sure the parts will fit.
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dude.... I couldn't agree you more!
I can't imagine doin this but then again I'm no thief and I don't consider most theives to be overly bright!
Although.... I sure have scavanged alot of Zuki parts in order to get mine to it's current state.
Yep..... PARANOID....... :-X
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I must be paranoid.
In my Chevy fullsize I have the VIN COVERED with an index card under my dash cover.
Why?
What you mentioned about chop shops. I'm not too worried about my Chevy work truck, but same theory applies as if it was a Z06 vette or anything with a hot-rod engine. The VIN decodes the engine.
So if someone wanted to steal my truck because they know that the 8th digit is a T, and the T means it has the 5.3L V8, then they know that they can sell that engine for "X" number of dollars. They can decode all the vehicle options and determine whether or not it is worth it for them to steal.
That's for "smart" criminals. I'm talking about real "pros" in the auto theft/chop shop business that actually look this kind of stuff up.
Because on the other hand, you have the smash-and-grab scumbags that just want to go for a joyride or mess with you for no reason at all.
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In my Chevy fullsize I have the VIN COVERED with an index card under my dash cover.
It would be interesting to know the legal ramifications of covering/concealing the VIN - since it is a federal requirement that it be visible. I guess LEO has other things to do, so no one really cares.
On a parallel but slightly different note - in Guyana, we are required to have our "road license" displayed (I believe this is equivalent to the little self adhesive tags that get stuck to US license plates to indicate that they are current or valid) - due to a recent redesign of the road license, the vehicle owner's name & address is now clearly visible, and at least for me, a security risk, since it allows anyone who sees the vehicle parked in the city to find it later at my home.
Several drivers have taken to covering that portion of the certificate whilst leaving the remainder on display - LEO can verify that the certificate is current and corresponds to the vehicle's license plate, which seems to be all they care about, since I have been pulled over a couple of times, and no comment made about it.
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I think this is a bunch of what ifs and worry about nothing. The guy was just asked to give the vin # not the car. for any of the scenarios to work, you would have to have both. You are more likely to have your car stolen and wrecked in a joyride or chopped up. It's is extremely unlikely that your car will be stolen and the vin tampered with or all the other theoretical examples done unless the vehicle in question is a very high value to make it worth getting caught and going to jail.