ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: RuffTuff_95 on January 10, 2004, 04:17:25 PM
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Hi everyone,
I have a '95 kick, and my ECU has gone bad. Apparently it was telling my #4 injector to stay wide open all the time causing my engine to run extremely rich and causing it to stutter. A brand new one from Suzuki costs.....get this.... $1900 Cdn. I found one for $175 Cdn and it will be installed hopefully monday. I was just wondering if ECU's failing is common on tracks & kicks.
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Are you sure its your ECU and not just the injector grounding causing it to stay open? To my knowledge ECU's are not a common thing to go bad. Good luck Andrew
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Did I mention my CEL came on too? I've been reading a bit on the net that failing ECU's are often overlooked when there seems to be fuel/ignition troubles. I brought my truck to Suzuki to have it checked and that's what they had diagnosed. I also read that ECU failures are not uncommon for sidekicks between the years of 92-94...although mine's a 95.
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Did you try pulling codes from the computer? How did you come to the conclusion it was your ecu? Andrew
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That's what the tech told me. I didn't ask what code it gave. I don't think they're trying to rip me off either, this dealer seems reputable. I'm not a master mechanic, but I can do simple things like change an alternator, plugs, distributor, header, exhaust, sway bars....basic maintenance, but when it comes to electronics of the car...I know nuthin'.
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Its really simple to get codes out of the ecu. Im' not saying that your garage is trying to rip you off. I just personally like the satisfaction of knowing exactly what is wrong myself.
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I'll ask them what code it gave and ask for my old ECU back.....That's what they told me that it's the ECU. I guess I'll have to believe them. Cause if I find out that they're ripping me off, then they'll have some serious problems on their hands.
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just to be cautious since i paid 600 bucks for new front axel berings and the dude only changed the outers not both sets...(yah i know totaly hosssed) i like to get as much info as possible on what wrong
if they say my berings are toast and need replacing i say fine but i want to see them when u are done.they should have no problem with this..or like my moms car they said a seal went bad(my fault so i paid for it) i told them before i ordered anything i wanted to see the parts for myself..it soaked the drums so they were shot
just make sure that u get the codes from the pearson mabey take a chiltons or haynes manuel with u( do they tell what the codes are?)
its so easy for people to rip customs off it becomes tempting..but not all shops are out to rip u off..the ones that are honest and truthfull will usually have no problem showing u the old parts or explaining what is wrong and how it happened
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Believe it or not, my ECU was repaired at the local TV repair shop for $160CDN.
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My mom got screwed over by the shop, they told her the water pump on her car was bad, and she needed new wheel bearings charged her 500 bucks for something i could have done for like 150 then come to find out it was the radiator! thats why I do all my work myself....its too bad that people can't be trusted now adays.
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Now I'm paranoid that I'm being ripped off. Maybe it was just my spark plug wires that needed replacing, cause that's what they're doing too along with the ECU.
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Sorry to make you paranoid but wouldn't you feel more comfortable knowing for sure? I know I would rather have the 200 bucks in my pocket not in the mechanics.
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I don't know for sure, but the EFI system on the
16V probably doesn't fire each injector seperatly,
most likely it has 2 channels, each drives 2 injectors.
That being said, it would not cause only one injector
to stick/stay open, at least get the old computer if
you have already bought a new one, other than that,
a set of wires might have been the problem, and an
Exhaust Gas Analizer could tell you if the injector is
wide open ........... Mechanics >:( always screwing up.
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I thought it was batch fire, all four at the same time???
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Mine on my 90 failed about 2 days after I got the engine rebuilt, back in and together. Died after the truck went through a car wash so maybe something got shorted but since I put a remanned one from Hawk in I've never had a problem. Might have just been something like an old electrolytic capacitor crapping out after 10 years in AZ. They're not very high tech inside, not even an epoxy/glass pcp just the cheap kind and all plain non surface mount components. Hell if I had the schematic and an o-scope and some baseline readings I could probably fix it myself.
If anyone else has one crap out on ya, check with Hawk Suzuki, they sell remanned ones on an exchange basis for 400 US or so with a 12 month 12,000 mile warranty. Better than a dealer price and the dealer usually has no warranty on electrical parts anyway.
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Ok, it's been almost a week now that I haven't had my zuk. :'( I got a used ECU and gave it to the dealer today and expected it to be ready after lunch. So, I called them, and now they're telling me that the new used one I brought in might be defective too? What are the chances? ??? So now I'm really pissed off >:( Why do I get the feeling that I'm being suckered. What should I do? If I decide to bring it to another place, I'll have to get it towed there since it's not in running condition.
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Ok, it's been almost a week now that I haven't had my zuk. :'( I got a used ECU and gave it to the dealer today and expected it to be ready after lunch. So, I called them, and now they're telling me that the new used one I brought in might be defective too? What are the chances? ??? So now I'm really pissed off >:( Why do I get the feeling that I'm being suckered. What should I do? If I decide to bring it to another place, I'll have to get it towed there since it's not in running condition.
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UPDATE: The new ECU I brought in apparently is defective too, so says the dealer. The CEL codes that were brought up are P0202 & P0303. The place I got the ECU from is sending me another one in exchange, and on thursday I'll know for sure if I'm being duped or it was just a freakish coincidence.
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GOOD LUCK...I'LL KEEP MY FINGERS CROSSED FOR YA.....
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UPDATE: So after 3 ECU's it's still doing the same thing. The tech has tested and traced all the wiring pertaining to the misfiring of injector #3 and he's stumped. Damn electronic gremlins, DAMN YOU! They're gonna consult suzuki techline services and see what else could be the problem. Anybody have any ideas?
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Hmm after 3 i'd think that the ECU isn't the problem...heheh
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UPDATE:  So after 3 ECU's it's still doing the same thing.  The tech has tested and traced all the wiring pertaining to the misfiring of injector #3 and he's stumped.  Damn electronic gremlins, DAMN YOU!  They're gonna consult suzuki techline services and see what else could be the problem.  Anybody have any ideas?
I'm hoping they have swapped another injector to the 3 spot, being new or one from the other working spots on the engine. Then, they could disconnect the wiring to the injector and run a makeshift line to support the injector to make sure it's properly functioning.
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How about a speck of dirt blocking the pintle open ??
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I believe the tech said that the injector is working fine it's just something is causing it to dump all the fuel into the cylinder. Hence, the ECU.
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Ya but 3 in a row, Naw, something fishy is going on.
I would request they swap the injectors to confirm
computer or another problem, and I still think the
system is a one or two channel system, IE injectors
are fired in groups (batch), not individually.
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If it's dumping the fuel on the #3 only and a different injector does the same thing then I'd say it sounds like a short causing it to get power to the injector constantly. That would stick it open. Chasing down the where and why of the short might be fun though :(
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Injectors are supplied voltage all the time,
the pulse width is controlled by the ECU
grounding the circuit with a heavy duty
transistor, but one injector to be dumping
fuel, unless it is a multi channel IE 4 channel
system don't make sence.
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THese ECU are made my Mitsubishi and are known to fail after a period of time.
There is a plce on the net that does rebuild them though.
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Yeah, I've seen them on the net. But I've made my decision to take my truck outta there and bring it to another place.
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My 89' puter has been flawless for over 260,000
miles, and yes it's a Mitsu puter, it even tolerates
the turbo with narry a gripe, and you guys are having
all the fun !! :(
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UPDATE: Well, my sentiments about the dealer trying to rip me off was all for naught. I went in to see the engine bay, the tech showed me what was wrong and what he did. He did try the wires in question on another injector and it did the same thing. So I'm assuming that there's a short somewhere. However, he's tested all the wires in that grouping and none of them are shorting. He showed me the electrical schematics of what each of the wires do, don't ask, cause I already forgot. Anyhow, he said he can't seem to pinpoint where this electrical gremlin is hiding and maybe suzuki forgot to include something in the electrical schematics pertaining to the wire group in question. My truck still runs, although it guzzles up alot of gas, runs rough and emits a little more exhaust then usual. It's driveable, but quite embarassing.
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splice into another good pair of injector
wires and take the bad pair offline.
it should run better and be only slightly
noticeable if at all.
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splice into another good pair of injector
wires and take the bad pair offline.
it should run better and be only slightly
noticeable if at all.
What a brilliant idea!! :D Except. wouldn't that cause the CEL to go on? :-/
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Too long to copy and paste.
http://www.ecmtogo.com/ECMTips2.htm
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What a brilliant idea!!  :D  Except.  wouldn't that cause the CEL to go on? :-/
Like I mentioned, most EFi systems use a
batch fire system, and most only use 2
channels, all this MPI Sequential EFI is hype,
it does nothing for performance, tho the car
makers would like you to think that.
The sequential EFI systems are designed for
idle and off idle emissions control, once you
have an engine over say 2000-3000 RPM the
injection timing "window" which is when the valve
is open, is shorter than the pulse in milliseconds
that is required for the injector to deliver the fuel
required by the engine, so it injects before and after
and when the valve opens it sucks the full charge
needed by the engine for that power setting.
READ: http://www.sdsefi.com/techseq.htm
The EFI system works by grounding the injector,
I suppose there is a risk of an overload on the
heavy duty transistor that performs the task, but
I would guess that there is a margin of "safety"
built into the components that they will work with
no problems.
Your other option is to unwrap the entire wireing
loom and follow the offending wires and solve the
problem by replacing or insulating the short, this
is probably the best solution, but more work, not
as bad as it might sound at first, just a pain to do.
Best of luck, E-mail or reply here if you need a hand
at thinking this through.
Darrin
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Thanks for the encouragement, I'll do some further investigating and maybe I'll get a response from suzuki tech too. If anything, I'll try that splicing suggestion.
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Well, it's been 6 months and I finally got my truck fixed. Turns out the the quad driver for cylinder #3 is grounded. So what they did was bypass the driver for cylinder #3 to cylinder #1. Now it runs like new ;D