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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: ryanf73 on February 01, 2011, 09:52:35 PM
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I have a 94 sidekick 16v and i am replacing the engine with a 16v out of a 95 tracker.
The wiring seems to be off ,the tracker harness has connectors the wiring in
my sidekick does not seem to have plugs in the wiring harness ,it goes straight into the cab
do i have to use my old intake manifold. also do i have to unhook everthing off of the engine in order to get the engine out looks like a pain getting under the intake.
Thanks
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The wiring connectors (that actually hook to stuff on the engine), should be the same. You should be able to keep the original wiring harness and just plug everything into the new engine. You will have to disconnect the wiring and hoses from the old engine to remove it. Yeah, it isn't fun trying to get everything loose from under the intake, but it has to be done.
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Do you think that the ECU computers are the same if the wiring harness are different?
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ECMs will probably interchange. They have different part numbers, but 94s and 95s are generally interchangable.
I wonder if you got a 96 engine, instead of a 95 engine. Does the distributor on the 95 engine look like the distributor on your 94? If not, then it is a 96 engine and there are several differences and you will have to use your intake on the new engine. If it is a 96, then ECMs are nowhere near the same.
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Thanks for the info..
I am not at the engine now but if i remember right they look identical other than the new geo engine has 3 plugs on the wiring harness that if they were roughted along the firewall where the origanal one is they would end up just past the distributor about 3 or 4 inches the wiring harness now goes all the way into the engine compartment it is about 2 feet longer and plugs look differnet. how could i check to make sure this engine is a 1995 is there #s on the block or distributer ???
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Just look at the distributor. If it looks like yours, it is a 95. If it doesn't, it is a 96. It is pretty obvious, if the distributor is different.
You could also look at the front of the oil pan, under the oil pump. If there is an electrical sensor there, then it is a 96, if there isn't, it is a 95.
I guess you could post some good, clear pics of the differences in the wiring harness and plugs and we might be able to give you some more advice.
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Thanks again I will look tonight. I just wanted to make sure, nothing worse than have something get fryed or having to re-pull if something was wrong.
If I have more questions tonight i will post some pics.
Thanks Ryan...
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BAD NEWS looks like it is a 1996 The distibutor is different and it has a sensor on the front of the oil pan. What are my options can I put my intake on this motor and is it posible to reuse my distributer? What esle would be different???
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Yes, you can still use it. Put your intake and exhaust manifold on it (you might be able to keep the 96 exhaust manifold...compare it with yours and see). Put your distributor in. I think that is all you need to change.
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You might need to swap the water pipe that is below the intake, I had to do that when changing from an ODBC I JDM engine to my 96. Beware that the rubber o-ring is a pain in the ass to find a replacement for, and put some silicone grease on it to help with the seal and to make sure it doesn't break when re-installing.
You can either disconnect the front sensor or replace the oil pan with the one from your 95, you don't need the sensor but it won't hurt anything sitting there.
I would take the extra time and replace your water pump and timing belt while the engine is out of the car, then you know it is done and you don't have to kick yourself 6 months from now if they end up going out.
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What is the easyest way to get the intake off? I got it off of the 96 new engine but it was a pain I had to take the intake in half to get to all of the bolts. Is there a short cut?
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What is the easyest way to get the intake off? I got it off of the 96 new engine but it was a pain I had to take the intake in half to get to all of the bolts. Is there a short cut?
Not really any short cut. I use a combo of wrenches, sockets, extensions and ratchets and can get to all of them. Yes, some are a PITA to get to. I do not take the intake apart, to take it off.
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Ok I'm changing the distributor over to the the other engine the distributors are different and the screws are in different places so it is hard to get a reference point on where to set the rotor. What would be the best way to get the rotor in its correct position?? Or at least close??
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Ok I'm changing the distributor over to the the other engine the distributors are different and the screws are in different places so it is hard to get a reference point on where to set the rotor. What would be the best way to get the rotor in its correct position?? Or at least close??
Set the engine to TDC on either #1 or #4 (the crank mark will be at 0 and when you remove the distributor cap the rotor will either be pointing at the #1 or #4 tower). Remove the old distributor and put the new one in so the rotor points to the same position. Note that the rotor will turn a little bit, when you slide the distributor in, so compensate for the turning appropriately.
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Thanks for the info.
One thing that I have learned from working on this sidekick is that the Japanese dude that put his thing together has very little hands and is stronger than HELL, man the bolts are tight.
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OK got everthing back in the sidekick, after messing with the distributor and timing it finally runs BUT not good.
it starts revs up to about 2500rpm on its own and stays there for about 15 seconds and then dies if you give it fuel when it starts to die it comes back it will not idle. Barely touch the throttle and it revs high.
It also sounds like it has a miss. sounds like i missed a electrical plug somewhere but i have check and triple checked everthing.
What could be going on???
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Ok, so you used the "new" engine and head, your old intake manifold, right? Did you put a new intake gasket on, and get all the intake bolts tightened properly? If you have a vacuum leak (like from an intake manifold gasket leaking), it will rev high.
Does your check engine light work? Is it on, after you start the engine?
What was wrong with your old engine that you had to replace it with this one?
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Ok, so you used the "new" engine and head, your old intake manifold, right? Did you put a new intake gasket on, and get all the intake bolts tightened properly? If you have a vacuum leak (like from an intake manifold gasket leaking), it will rev high.
Does your check engine light work? Is it on, after you start the engine?
What was wrong with your old engine that you had to replace it with this one?
New block, head old intake with new gasket. Check engine on the old engine was on all the time it is off now.
the reason for replace was water in oil even after changing head gasket.
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Ok, so you used the "new" engine and head, your old intake manifold, right? Did you put a new intake gasket on, and get all the intake bolts tightened properly? If you have a vacuum leak (like from an intake manifold gasket leaking), it will rev high.
Does your check engine light work? Is it on, after you start the engine?
What was wrong with your old engine that you had to replace it with this one?
New block, head old intake with new gasket. Check engine on the old engine was on all the time it is off now.
the reason for replace was water in oil even after changing head gasket.
Sounds like the old block was probably cracked.
Hmm. Just by changing the head and block, that shouldn't make the CEL go off, if it was on all the time with the old engine running. The CEL lights because of a sensor that isn't working (or not plugged in), or one that is not sending info back to the ECM. Since you kept the same intake (and sensors), the CEL should still be on. But what it could be is that since you had the battery unhooked for quite awhile, the CEL got reset. So it will probably be off, until the engine has ran long enough to "set" the code again and make it light up again.
Does the CEL come on when you turn the key to run and not start the engine?
I'd go back and make sure you got the distributor installed in the correct place. If you are off even one tooth, it can make and engine run very odd. The distributor should also be pretty close to the center of its adjustment range. That will get the timing very close to spec., if you have not hooked up a timing light to set it.
Did the old engine have a miss? Did you reuse the old spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil wire? If not, and if the old engine didn't have a miss, I'd put all of those from the old engine on this one. That should rule out any of those components causing the miss.
You have the spark plug wires on the distributor in the correct order? The distributor spins counter clockwise and 1-3-4-2 is the firing order.
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Ok, so you used the "new" engine and head, your old intake manifold, right? Did you put a new intake gasket on, and get all the intake bolts tightened properly? If you have a vacuum leak (like from an intake manifold gasket leaking), it will rev high.
Does your check engine light work? Is it on, after you start the engine?
What was wrong with your old engine that you had to replace it with this one?
New block, head old intake with new gasket. Check engine on the old engine was on all the time it is off now.
the reason for replace was water in oil even after changing head gasket.
Sounds like the old block was probably cracked.
Hmm. Just by changing the head and block, that shouldn't make the CEL go off, if it was on all the time with the old engine running. The CEL lights because of a sensor that isn't working (or not plugged in), or one that is not sending info back to the ECM. Since you kept the same intake (and sensors), the CEL should still be on. But what it could be is that since you had the battery unhooked for quite awhile, the CEL got reset. So it will probably be off, until the engine has ran long enough to "set" the code again and make it light up again.
Does the CEL come on when you turn the key to run and not start the engine?
I'd go back and make sure you got the distributor installed in the correct place. If you are off even one tooth, it can make and engine run very odd. The distributor should also be pretty close to the center of its adjustment range. That will get the timing very close to spec., if you have not hooked up a timing light to set it.
Did the old engine have a miss? Did you reuse the old spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil wire? If not, and if the old engine didn't have a miss, I'd put all of those from the old engine on this one. That should rule out any of those components causing the miss.
You have the spark plug wires on the distributor in the correct order? The distributor spins counter clockwise and 1-3-4-2 is the firing order.
Checked firing order looks good i reused everything check engine light is on all the time now. I also changed the water pump and timing belt.
We messed around with the distributor for a 1/2 hour got it to run and ujuster nut is in the middle(runs best there). found 2 ground that were not hooked up fix clicking problem from relays.
I used new intake gasket and tightened up all bolt in cross pattern. Engine ran great always started right up no miss just had water in oil.
Not sure what do next????
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If the CEL is on all the time now (even with the engine running), put your jumper in place and see what code, or codes, it is flashing. That should point you in the direction of your problem.
How sure are you that you got the timing belt back on in the right place (not off a tooth one way or the other)?
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If the CEL is on all the time now (even with the engine running), put your jumper in place and see what code, or codes, it is flashing. That should point you in the direction of your problem.
How sure are you that you got the timing belt back on in the right place (not off a tooth one way or the other)?
This is the second timing belt that i have done and feel good about the install. I do not know how to pull codes??
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Ok. We won't worry about the timing belt for now then.
You have to place a jumper wire (I use a paper clip that has been bent into a "U" shape), in the plug that is up near the battery, to short a couple of the wires. That will allow the CEL to start flashing, when the key is turned on (engine off), and you can count the flash sequence and it will give you a 2 digit code, that you can look up to see what the code stands for.
Let me see if I can find an outline with pics for the procedure....because it is pretty hard to explain (for me anyway)...
Here, try this....
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,27886.0.html (http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,27886.0.html)
and this...
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,28566.0.html (http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,28566.0.html)
It also could be that your odometer just reached a mileage interval, which causes the CEL to be on all the time, even though there is no error code. Here is some info on that, just in case that is the problem....
http://www.kick-fix.com/CEL/NAG-Lamp.html (http://www.kick-fix.com/CEL/NAG-Lamp.html)
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it flashed 3 times then 4 times
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Air Flow Sensor Circuit ??
Where is it located?
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Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor. It is the large sensor that is between the airbox and the rubber intake tube. You did remember to plug the connector into it...didn't you?
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its pluged in it probably sent a error code when i was checking all the connectors i unpluged and pluged all of them.
I will go out and disconnect battery then start and see if error code comeback.
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its pluged in it probably sent a error code when i was checking all the connectors i unpluged and pluged all of them.
I will go out and disconnect battery then start and see if error code comeback.
As long as you didn't unplug it when the engine was running (or before you started the engine and left it unplugged when you started the engine), it wouldn't have thrown an error code. Plus, the code would have automatically cleared, once the ECM saw it was plugged in (assuming the wiring is good between it and the ECM) and the engine was running.
If you need to check the connection from it back to the ECM, here is a pic of the test procedure. Hopefully, you can see it good enough to read it. If not, I can scan it later.
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code 23 and 34
IAT Sensor Circuit
Air Flow Sensor Circuit
I do not know where they are. Sorry I do not do this often.
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code 23 and 34
IAT Sensor Circuit
Air Flow Sensor Circuit
I do not know where they are. Sorry I do not do this often.
air flow sensor circuit is the MAF sensor that I mentioned earlier.
The IAT sensor is the sensor in the lid of the airbox. It has an electrical connector that plugs into it too.
I can't hardly see both of those sensors being bad. I would look over the wiring really close and make sure it isn't damaged or broken from the sensor back to the ECM. If it looks ok, you are going to have to do continuity checks with a multi-meter on the wires, between the connectors at the sensors and the ECM plug, to verify the wiring is ok.
The other possibility is that the ECM is bad. But the 95s didn't have the ECM issues as often as the earlier ECMs did.
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its been a long day,, I left the plugs undone when i was troubleshooting earlyer today, got them plugged in now,
restarted the engine still starts up and gos to 2500rpm then dies unless i give it fuel running a little rough no check engine light on. pulling my hair out What to do now??? ??? ???
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The 2500 RPM sounds pretty normal. It is going to idle high, until the engine gets warmed up.
The dying issue sounds like it could be a fuel problem (maybe the fuel pressure regulator) or a sensor that isn't adjusted correctly (maybe the TPS).
Can you download an FSM (factory service manual) from suzukiinfo.com? They are big files (several megs), so you need a high speed connection. An FSM will have all the troubleshooting and testing procedures you will need.
For the rough running. You could pull the plug wires individually start the engine and see if it runs any differently. If it doesn't, then whatever plug wire is off at the time will tell you what cylinder has the problem. Could be a valve, or valves, that aren't adjusted correctly, could be a bad plug or plug wire, could be the cylinder itself (like the rings aren't sealing correctly), could be an injector that isn't working right (make sure all the plugs are plugged in securely to them).
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I tried pulling the plug wires one at a time on Sunday and there is not a real big difference in the way it runs. Can't really tell that the wire is disconnected..?? Is there any differences in the intake from one engine to new next?? as far as ports lining up?
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I tried pulling the plug wires one at a time on Sunday and there is not a real big difference in the way it runs. Can't really tell that the wire is disconnected..?? Is there any differences in the intake from one engine to new next?? as far as ports lining up?
There shouldn't be any difference, as far as the ports lining up, between the 96 and yours.
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when i get home i will to spray some starting fluid around the intake to see if it is sucking air somewhere. Also got some die electrod grease to put on the connectors. Got new cap rotor wires and plugs on order. (one good thing is that the new block sounds good does not have a knock never know what your getting when you buy used)
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Definately sucking air. I got to looking and the intake gasket that came of of the old engine is metal and the one i put on was paper can this be right or did i get wrong part??? I am going to take off tonight can i just use sensor save silicone??
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your not referring to using silicone on a intake are you? ??? have faith in clean,true surfaces and just use proper gasket. silicone is not designed to work around gasoline.
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Got the intake off WRONG gasket your right I will order new gasket. I'm i BFE and it takes forever to get parts.
Hopefully this will fix my idle also??
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Definately sucking air. I got to looking and the intake gasket that came of of the old engine is metal and the one i put on was paper can this be right or did i get wrong part??? I am going to take off tonight can i just use sensor save silicone??
The metal ones are OEM type gaskets. They say the metal ones are better. I have ran both paper and metal and haven't had any issues with either.
I have used silicone/RTV on one of my samurai intake manifolds...worked fine...still working fine....but you (and I) really should use a gasket. It was one of those "temporary fixes" that has turned into a not-so-temporary fix. ;)
Got the intake off WRONG gasket your right I will order new gasket. I'm i BFE and it takes forever to get parts.
Hopefully this will fix my idle also??
What gasket did you get originally?
Yeah, getting rid of the air leak should definitely help (or fix completely) the idle issue.
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Paper gasket and all the studs lined up with the holes and the coolant hole was lining up. I had so much stuff going on trying to get it back together that i did not notice that the new gasket had round holes and the head-intake are more of a rounded triangle. It was sucking air on all cylinders on the top. It must be hard to find the right gasket it took my buddy at the parts store 1/2 hour to find the correct one. I took the oem one into him. I hope I can get the intake back on it is really challenging getting to the nuts on the bottom.
I feel better now knowing what is wrong. :)
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Paper gasket and all the studs lined up with the holes and the coolant hole was lining up. I had so much stuff going on trying to get it back together that i did not notice that the new gasket had round holes and the head-intake are more of a rounded triangle. It was sucking air on all cylinders on the top. It must be hard to find the right gasket it took my buddy at the parts store 1/2 hour to find the correct one. I took the oem one into him. I hope I can get the intake back on it is really challenging getting to the nuts on the bottom.
I feel better now knowing what is wrong. :)
Hmm. What was the brand and part number on the wrong one you had initially?
The correct gasket shouldn't be hard at all to find.....94 sidekick, 16V engine, intake manifold gasket.
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Not sure part # i took the package back to him every gasket that he came up with was round holed. Had to go to the internet and look it up then had to convert oem part # over to CAR QUEST # even try looking up tracker and that did not work. he was looking at 16v but I think it must have been for a 8v??? The one we ordered had a picture and looks right.
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Not sure part # i took the package back to him every gasket that he came up with was round holed. Had to go to the internet and look it up then had to convert oem part # over to CAR QUEST # even try looking up tracker and that did not work. he was looking at 16v but I think it must have been for a 8v??? The one we ordered had a picture and looks right.
Wow, if their system is anything like the website, I bet it is a PITA to find anything. Their website is terrible for trying to look up parts. Now I know why I used Advance, Autozone and Oreillys. ;)
I am pretty sure an 8V gasket won't even bolt up....the bolt spacing is wrong.
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Got all the parts and got them put on last night New intake gasket (right one) and cap rotor wires and plugs.
Got it all together and it fired idled at about 200 rpm for about 3 seconds then died. I checked and double checked all my connections and hoses and tried to start again with no luck just turns over will no try to start. I can hear my fuel pumps working so it should be getting fuel and i have spark then i thought my timing was off so i messed with that for a while with no luck (the engine manual shows the screws on the distibutor and #1 in different spot) finally i put the plug wires back to where they were still no luck checked the main wiring harness again and tried to start and after cranking on it for over 5 seconds it fired and started running runs good idles about 1000rpm and sound good.
Before i started this engine project every once in a while it would not start and i would have to cycle the ignition a dozen times and it would start up i always thought it was my fuel pump relay starting to go but i am not sure now because this time i could hear my pump running. I would feel better if i knew for sure what the problem was..Check it this morning and fired right up. no CEL
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Cool. Sounds like it's running good.
For the occasional no start issue. It could be, or could have been, a bad wiring connection at the starter (the wire going to the starter solenoid may not have been on good), or the solenoid could have been sticking a little bit. I have had to take the starters apart before, clean them up, lightly lube the solenoid, and reassemble. After that, I haven't ever had a problem with the starter not wanting to work.
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The starter works, the engine turns over but does not start. But not all the time, it sometimes does it in the mornings but that doesn't make since because it is in the garage and it does not get cold in there?? ???
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The starter works, the engine turns over but does not start. But not all the time, it sometimes does it in the mornings but that doesn't make since because it is in the garage and it does not get cold in there?? ???
Oh, ok. So you are saying the engine always turns over, just sometimes it doesn't fire and run, until you turn the key on and off a few times? I could be that it just hasn't built enough fuel pressure. When you turn the key to "run", the fuel pump runs for 3 seconds to build fuel pressure. If you don't pause between "off" and "start", then it could be that the pump just hasn't had enough time to run in order to build fuel pressure. If it happens again, turn the key to off, then turn it to run, wait until you hear the fuel pump relay kick off, then try to start it.
It also could be that you are not getting spark right away, for whatever reason.
Just my guesses.
I guess as long as it does start..eventually....then it isn't really a "problem", just an "annoyance". ;)
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Thanks for all your help hopfully it will be a while before i have to do this again. ;D
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No problem. Glad you got it running good.