ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: zukcrewcab on February 24, 2011, 06:52:25 PM
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I've been out of the loop for a few years, after lifting my 95 4 door sidekick I found out the ring and pinions to match the 32 inch tires im running are not availalble, since has anyone started producing these 5:83 gears?
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Only used sets are available that I know of and good luck finding a good set. Contact SkyhiRanger here on this forum, he has some good and RARE factory 5.63's I think.
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thank you, will the 5 63's turn the 32's like with the power range of the stock set up?
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thank you, will the 5 63's turn the 32's like with the power range of the stock set up?
5.63s won't quite get you back to stock (but neither will 5.83s). And I do have some 5.63s (5.62s) for sale in the for sale section, if you want to look them up.
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why not a undertaker instead? with gears in the 5's you have very little pinion strength.
take a look
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=233&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=233&category_id=46&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53)
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The problem with the undertaker is that is a non-selectable 1.5 reduction (so you would need to run 40" tires, to compensate for the gear reduction). To figure how this will affect your current gearing/RPMs.....look at the RPMs the engine is running at 70MPH (or whatever the highest MPH is that you drive at constantly), then multiply the RPM by 1.5...that will be your "new" RPM at that MPH with the undertaker. I don't think you will like the "new" RPMs, with 32s and the undertaker.
Also, you have to modify the driveshaft lengths, when you add the undertaker. So take that cost into account, in addition to the $1300+ price tag, and I think you'll see that the undertaker isn't a real good option for most people.
You also need to cut a new hole in the tranny tunnel for the tcase shifter. That is something that you should be able to do yourself...but it is more work that has to be done.
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I agree with your RPM diagnosis, but what are you going to do?
There is no other option right now to get a tall tire geared down
on the road, and the 4.24s are too low for the sand.
The Undertaker will take the Stock T-case set to an effective 2.8:1
and in my opinion, that is a better range for all around driving, low enough
for rock crawling and high enough to run sand.
If you install 4.62s you will have an effective 6.93 and with 5.12s it will be
an effective 7.69, these #s assume a final drive of 1:1, with overdrive 5th
the effective reduction will be less, but I'm too tired tonight to look up
the 5th gears OD #
So in short, an undertaker will allow you to run a 35 or even a 37-40 inch tire
and still have reduction to pull them, now if we can just figure out how to keep
the axles from twisting off like tooth picks ..............
Wild
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Or you could just stick a 3 speed auto trans in it and keep your 5.125's and run 32's.
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I am one of the lucky ones that have 5:83s. Found someone that had bought a new set and never installed them. I am running 31s and the gearing is very good but still not like a stock. The heavier tires just take more to turn. Don't get me wrong I love the gearing but just want to share it is not just like stock.
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I agree with your RPM diagnosis, but what are you going to do?
There is no other option right now to get a tall tire geared down
on the road, and the 4.24s are too low for the sand.
The Undertaker will take the Stock T-case set to an effective 2.8:1
and in my opinion, that is a better range for all around driving, low enough
for rock crawling and high enough to run sand.
If you install 4.62s you will have an effective 6.93 and with 5.12s it will be
an effective 7.69, these #s assume a final drive of 1:1, with overdrive 5th
the effective reduction will be less, but I'm too tired tonight to look up
the 5th gears OD #
So in short, an undertaker will allow you to run a 35 or even a 37-40 inch tire
and still have reduction to pull them, now if we can just figure out how to keep
the axles from twisting off like tooth picks ..............
Wild
The problem with trackick tcase gears is that they don't change the high range ratio at all. So they do nothing for on road driving.
Yeah, basically if you install the undertaker, you also need to change the axle gears to a higher ratio (something like 4.30, 4.62, 4.88), unless you are running something around a 40" tires. So also add that expense to the cost. So undertaker cost, driveshaft mods cost, axle gears cost....you could easily have $2000+ in the setup...maybe $3000+, depending on how much of the modding you can do yourself.
5.62 or 5.83 axle gears by themselves aren't going to be the ideal setup either. But for around $1000, it should be something that you could live with for on road driving.
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Or you could just stick a 3 speed auto trans in it and keep your 5.125's and run 32's.
Why would this help? No matter whether he currently has the 4 speed auto or the 5 speed manual, he could just run them either with the OD locked out (3rd in a 4 speed is a 1:1 ratio, just like 3rd in the 3 speed auto), or in 4th gear (4th in the 5 speed is a 1:1 ratio).
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If you install 4.62s you will have an effective 6.93 and with 5.12s it will be
an effective 7.69, these #s assume a final drive of 1:1, with overdrive 5th
the effective reduction will be less, but I'm too tired tonight to look up
the 5th gears OD
5th gear ratio in a 4 door trackick 5 speed is .795.
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I am one of the lucky ones that have 5:83s. Found someone that had bought a new set and never installed them. I am running 31s and the gearing is very good but still not like a stock. The heavier tires just take more to turn. Don't get me wrong I love the gearing but just want to share it is not just like stock.
and here lies the true problem. no matter what the gearing options, the addition to the rolling mass will be the death of your suzuki's power. i'm really thinking that the best option is like Bentparts said...3 speed auto(or at least a lot less work compared to always trying to find your power band shifting thru gears).
BUT....
i have seen some people with 30" tires do some amazing shit with their rigs, and with a winch and skids you can drag it the rest of the way :P
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The rotating mass of 33s is enough to make your Suzuki feel like it's running on 2
cylinders, so to improve the overall performance you need more power, V6 or
forced induction are both excellent ways to get back what tires and gears take
away.
Wild
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thank you for all the input, it sounds like there is no perfect solution to the problem without spending a ton of money, it feels like maybe the best thing would be scraping out the calmini 6 inch lift and getting a straight axel kit, or selling it and starting over??? :(
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thank you for all the input, it sounds like there is no perfect solution to the problem without spending a ton of money, it feels like maybe the best thing would be scraping out the calmini 6 inch lift and getting a straight axel kit, or selling it and starting over??? :(
the actual problem is lack of power, is it not? why not a motor swap? a sas kit is not a cheap solution especially if you just have to go and re-gear it too?
add more H.P and keep the gearing as-is and still get some decent fuel mileage.? just a thought.....
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You will spend lots less improving the power with a turbo setup
than a SAS, which is still not going to address the power issue.
If you have a 16V engine it's a much easier, and cheaper alternative
than a V6 or a SAS.
Wild
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Or you could just stick a 3 speed auto trans in it and keep your 5.125's and run 32's.
Why would this help? No matter whether he currently has the 4 speed auto or the 5 speed manual, he could just run them either with the OD locked out (3rd in a 4 speed is a 1:1 ratio, just like 3rd in the 3 speed auto), or in 4th gear (4th in the 5 speed is a 1:1 ratio).
If for example he has a 5 speed manual now, he has the 5.125 axles correct? With my 3 speed auto, I swapped in a set of the 5.125 to replace my standard 4.30's and it was plenty of final drive reduction to pull 32's, before the turbo. Still not fast or paticularly powerful, b ut hey , these things stock are more economical than powerful. I think the auto transmission with it's torque converter just pulls better with less stress on other components.
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Or you could just stick a 3 speed auto trans in it and keep your 5.125's and run 32's.
Why would this help? No matter whether he currently has the 4 speed auto or the 5 speed manual, he could just run them either with the OD locked out (3rd in a 4 speed is a 1:1 ratio, just like 3rd in the 3 speed auto), or in 4th gear (4th in the 5 speed is a 1:1 ratio).
If for example he has a 5 speed manual now, he has the 5.125 axles correct? With my 3 speed auto, I swapped in a set of the 5.125 to replace my standard 4.30's and it was plenty of final drive reduction to pull 32's, before the turbo. Still not fast or paticularly powerful, b ut hey , these things stock are more economical than powerful. I think the auto transmission with it's torque converter just pulls better with less stress on other components.
Yeah, he has a 95 4 door, so it will have 5.12 gears, no matter what tranny he has.
Again, I can't see how swapping in a 3 speed auto will make it drive/pull any better than with whatever tranny he has now. Yes, starting out from a dead stop with a manual might be kinda doggy, but once he is rolling, it shouldn't be that big of a deal, and doesn't warrant a 3 speed tranny swap, IMO.
Yes, he could go to 5.38 or 5.62 gears, but that won't be as big of a jump as you when you went from 4.30s to 5.12s (which is what really saved you when you went to 32s with a stock 1.6, IMO....not the auto tranny).
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I wasn't aware the 4 doors came with 5.125 and an auto trans. I only suggested this because I thought he had a manual trans. It sure was a big jump going form 4.30 to 5.125, almost TOO much. Sometimes I think I'd be better off, especially on the highway with 4.62's. I still feel overgeared, 4k to run 70mph.
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Really, My trucklet stock ran at 4K |removethispart|@70 MPH and the speedo
was off by about 2-3 MPH, after changing to 235 tires the speedo
was 100% correct and the RPM dropped about 200, still a little
much on the revs, but these engines seem to do just fine with it
Wild
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I wasn't aware the 4 doors came with 5.125 and an auto trans. I only suggested this because I thought he had a manual trans. It sure was a big jump going form 4.30 to 5.125, almost TOO much. Sometimes I think I'd be better off, especially on the highway with 4.62's. I still feel overgeared, 4k to run 70mph.
I don't actually know what tranny he has, since he hasn't ever said. But yes, all 4 doors (92-98) had 5.12 gears and either had a 4 speed auto or 5 speed manual tranny. The only ones that didn't were the 91 4 doors which all had the 1.6 8V engine and either 4.62 gears (3 speed auto tranny), or 5.38 gears (5 speed tranny).
4K isn't bad for RPMs at 70. Most 4 doors (92-98) run 3600-3800RPM at 70, depending on tire size (stock, or slightly bigger than stock).
One other note....the 5 speeds that came behind 16V engines had a .795 5th gear ratio and the 5 speeds that came behind 8V engines had the .86 5th gear ratio. That makes for about a 300RPM difference at highway speeds (65ish). The trannys are 100% interchangable though.
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Hey SkyHi, do you happen to know the gear ratios of the 8V and 16V trans
in 1-4 gears? are they the same or is there a hot setup for tall tires with
lower 1-4 as well as 5th gear???
Wild
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Hey SkyHi, do you happen to know the gear ratios of the 8V and 16V trans
in 1-4 gears? are they the same or is there a hot setup for tall tires with
lower 1-4 as well as 5th gear???
Wild
They are identical. I don't know the exact ratios off the top of my head, but I do know they are identical between the two. Like I said, same exact trannys, just a different 5th gear cluster.
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I have a 5 speed manual trans, the problem lies in I dont have the power to shift into 5th gear and very sluggish up hills if i have to excellerate, you guys think the turbo with work, is there any kits for it??
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Oh yeah, the turbo really works. ;) Well worth the effort. Wild makes turbo manifolds, and can probably hook you up. No complete kits that I know of, but it's been done enough times and theres enough information here to get the job done. Most of the bugs have been worked out of turbocharging these engines , especially if yours is a 16v.
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it is a 16 valve, anyone have any info its much appreciated
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I believe the manual tranny ratios 1-4 are 3.65 first, 1.95 second, 1.37 third, 1.0 fourth. I use this site to find ratios and setup final rpms at certain speeds. http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html (http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html)