ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: viper87 on March 07, 2011, 08:23:29 PM
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Hello,
I just got done putting a new head on my '88 1.3 samurai yesterday, followed everything by the manual, triple checked everything. Anyways, it was running great, no issues whatsoever. However on the way to work today, about 10mins into my commute it just lost a lot of power, like if it only was running on 3 cylinders. I came to a stop light, and it died, from then on I had to keep my foot on the gas to keep it alive. It was running very "choppy", I thought that maybe the ignition or fuel was cutting out quickly then coming back on but i don't know. When in first gear just driving at 10/15mph it seemed to be doing mini-lurching, like when you step on the gas then let off then repeat. (it did seam to gain some power when revved to 3.5-4k and was less choppy). The engine temp stayed normal (halfway between middle and bottom) the whole time. Did a compression check, #1:180, #2:173, #3:180, #4:180. No water in the oil that I could tell, checked the valves again they were all in speck. I am using the stock manual fuel pump. New spark plugs, wires and coil(cap&rotor are good). Does any one have any suggestions? I am stumped on what to do. Thank You.
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Possibly loose or bad timing belt?
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Check the timing belt to make sure it didn't slip.
How about water in the distributor?
How long did it sit while you worked on it? could there be water in the gas
and now in the carb?
Wild
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I just checked the timing belt, it is good, the cam and crank are aligned. Checked for spark on every cylinder, yes. The distributor is dry. Last I put "Iso Heat, fuel line antifreeze" (to take the water out of the gas) in the tank and drove around for 10 mins. It seems like it might be running a hair better, but maybe the same, it idled a little bit but super rough and low rpm. should I just keep driving it to see if that helps some how, or other options?
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Could be a plugged cat converter. I have had them plug up and it kills the power and makes them run rough. Seems to get worse as they get hot too.
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Good point, but in my case there is no catalytic converter on the exhaust. Maybe taking the carb off and cleaning it/rebuilding it would help, I'm not sure.
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Might have to do that. I had a similar problem one time and it turned out that there was gunk in the carb. It would sort of run untill the choke started to open. If you look down the carb while it's running. Rev the engine and you should be able to see the fuel squirting into the primary. When mine was acting up, it just sort of dribbled out or not at all. I ended up bending the end of the carb cleaner tube and spraying it into the orifce where the fuel comes out. Good news is, it ran great after that. If you know someone that has a Sammy and can look inside their carb akd see the difference, it iwas very noticable on mine.
Try this too.
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,21551.msg218193.html#msg218193 (http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,21551.msg218193.html#msg218193)
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Thanks for the advice lv2fsh, and the link!
Well I just did a little test, with the engine running at 1500rpm(thanks to my brother for helping), I pulled out each spark plug wire from the spark plug, one at a time, to see if one didn't do anything. All the cylinders lost a lot of power when the wire was pulled off, except the #3 cylinder, it didn't make a difference on how it ran with the plug wire on or off for #3. All the plugs had plenty of spark though. Maybe the intake for that cylinder isn't getting any gas? It seems highly unlikely, or the head-gasket broke?
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No gas is distributed evenly to all cylinders because there are no injectors,
pull that plug and check it for damage or something in the gap, you
could also check the new plug wire by replacing it with an old one, see
if that doesn't fix the problem.
If that doesn't help, there might be a problem with the intake on that
cylinder, the valve might not be opening, or the adjuster has backed off
or a broken rocker arm etc. check it out
Wild
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Thanks wildgoody!
I tried exchanging the old plug wires with new ones, no difference; also the spark plugs are looking fine, checked them for spark too. I still have to check the valves in motion, I want to wait till I have a assistant to crank it so I can see the valves moving up and down just to verify they are, but visual inspection says everything in the head is looking normal.
Also, figured out that the #3 and #4 cylinders don't run differently when plug wires are pulled during steady rpm idle, and a guy I ran into said there might be a vacuum leak, so I got some starting fluid spray going to see if that makes a difference when sprayed around intake manifold. On a side note the solenoid for my starter is pretty much gone so I'll be getting a new one of those : )
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Go on Ebay and get a clicky starter fix. There is a screen filter inside the carb that can get dirty and plugged. It's ahead of the float bowl inside the carb. If you put some gas in the carb(just a little) and try to start it. If it starts and then dies, and you have gas to the carb, you have a carb that's plugged somewhere.
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lv2fsh, Wouldn't a plugged carb affect all cylinders instead of just the last two? I'm just guessing.
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If the 3 and 4 cylinders aren't firing and hence the "no change", and it was an electrical problem, the plugs would be wet and fouled. If they are firing but not getting fuel or very little, they would be clean. If they are clean or not wet and fouled, then you are not getting the fuel to them. There should be a spark plug trouble shooting set of pictures online some where or in a repair manual.
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A helpful reminder, check your firing order, 1,3,4,2 rotating clockwise
By your posting it sounds like 3 and 4 are on the wrong spots or your
using counter clockwise as the distributor rotation direction
Wild
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Thanks for the help you guys!
Double checked the firing order, it is as you say, 1,3,4,2. clockwise. The plugs are dry and not fowled, so guess they aren't getting fuel, or enough fuel. Either way, I am in the process of taking the carb off and cleaning it. I've been pretty busy lately so the samurai has been getting put to the side : ( .
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Sounds strange that a carb issue would effect only certain cylinders, unless it was multiple carbs like on older motorcycles. If it's consistintly # 2+3 cylinders it may valve related, but you said you checked the action. Did you check for correct valve lash/clearences when you installed the head?
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Agreed, it does sound strange that the carb could do this(it has 1 double barrel carb), since both barrels dump into one bay that splits into all the cylinders. But I am trying anything, and the carb being cleaned couldn't hurt. Yes, I adjusted the valves on the new head, after I installed it on the engine, then rechecked them after it had started running funky. The rocker arms look like they are all moving fine to me as well, but I took a vid of them for you're entertainment, and maybe someone would see something I didn't:
viper87 - MVI_3248.mp4 (http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/viper87/Suzuki%20Samurai%201988/?action=view¤t=MVI_3248.mp4)
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Could something like a rag have got sucked into the manifold and be blocking
the runner that feeds the rear cylinders? is the air filter in 1 piece?
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Damn that's a clean head!
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Ya, he just put it on, it better be clean.
In reference to my last post, where was the intake manifold kept while the truck
was apart waiting for the head? and how long was it apart?
Was anything stuffed into the intake to keep crud out during storage etc. ?
See where I'm going with this? you might have to pull the carb or the intake a visually
inspect for some sort of blockage if all else fails.
I know it sounds extreme, but if all you have told us is correct and you are sure there
aren't any bad plugs (junk new parts) and all the wires are good, the firing order is right
the compression is good, the distributor is not dropping spark on those 2 cylinders for
some strange reason (bad dizzy pickup) the valves are opening, no broken rockers, etc.
then it should run fine.
My $.02
Wild
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For weird items, I have seen an EGR valve that is not functioning properly cause the number 3 cylinder to drop at low RPMs on two different vehicles. No idea why it only effected the number 3.
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Thanks for the replies guys!
I took the Intake off, looked down it, and watched the intake valves move up and down in the head, free and clear no debris whatsoever. I checked the timing again I think I'm doing it right: camshaft pulley mark at top, crankshaft pulley mark at 0 degrees, and distributor rotor pointing at #1 spark plug wire. I am thinking it has to be something with the spark, but I saw each plug wire sparking... Could my new msd blaster 2 coil have been to powerful for the stock distributor and damaged it?(I didn't use the resistor like it said to, but the vehicle had a the same coil on it with no resistor for years). If that was the case wouldn't it not be sparking at all, because if its still sparking, it should be igniting the fuel I would think. Pics of the intake:
Seems strange to me why the #3 and #4 intake are cleanish, but the #1 and #2 intake are dirty/oily. Its the same on the new head.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/viper87/Suzuki%20Samurai%201988/Intake12dirty34clean.jpg)
#3 & #4 intake
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/viper87/Suzuki%20Samurai%201988/Cylinders34intake.jpg)
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Crank mark up, cam mark down, that's the factory way, but as long
as you have the timing right it will run, but the #1 plug wire will be
180* out from stock.
Stock is #1 is at approx 5 O'clock, yours with the cam in it's position
should be at about the 11 O'clock position, check the wire positions
and see if it's on the right way for your cam position
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Mine is at about the 11oclock position like you said, I may try it your the cam mark down and crank mark up way. Right now however I am stuck on this carb, I took it off and forgot to note how the linkages go or take pics, can you help me out? I'm not sure how the top and bottom links connect, or if they even do. Does anyone know?
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/viper87/Suzuki%20Samurai%201988/IMG_3294.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/viper87/Suzuki%20Samurai%201988/IMG_3292.jpg)