ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: samuraidan on March 10, 2011, 08:10:31 PM
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I've read the write up (http://www.zukiworld.com/month_030104/feature_tsb_shiftontheflyremoval.htm (http://www.zukiworld.com/month_030104/feature_tsb_shiftontheflyremoval.htm)) about 20 times, and i think i've finally decided i want to go through the trouble to re-gear my Vit.
My question: is do us Canadians need to make any special consideration when selecting our donor vehicle?? Or does the list of donors in the write up apply to us as well?
I realize the SOTF removal and 5.13 swap has been discussed to death, so please bare with me :angel: . I'd really love to hear from any Canadians who have done the 5.13 swap.
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WOW! That is a very thorough description of how to modify for manual 4x4!
I would suspect that all the info applies to you Canadians the same as us USAens.
The CAMI plant in Ontario supplied all the North-American built Sidekicks and Trackers so I don't see a difference in you your vehicle choices as spelled out in the article. Be aware that the Asuna Sunrunner is simply a rebadged Tracker and, according to the article, would not apply as they were not manufactured after (I think) 1993...
One thing that I would mention - and this is a bit speculative as I have never been inside a GenII hub assembly - is that there is a snap ring on the axle shaft under the locking hub of a GenI hub assembly. This snap ring prevents axial (in and out) motion of the axle shaft. One would assume that the snap ring is also found under the "locking cup" in GenII pneumatically-operated axles. As a result, you cannot remove the axles shaft from the hub without first removing that snap ring.
I don't think that this was mentioned in the article...
So before you start using excessive force to extract the "stubborn" axle shaft, remove the locking cap on the outside of the hub where the manual locker would go. There might be a snap ring holding it in place...
I hope that this helps!
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I would suspect that all the info applies to you Canadians the same as us USAens.
USAens? I've heard of Americans, but never USAens. I guess it is a little more accurate... ::)
Seriously though, thanks for the input. I realize the CAMI built vehicles are probably all the same throughout both markets (US & Canada), I'm just not as sure about the Japanese built ones which apparently i MUST have.
Canadian market when compared to the US is a bit funny. Sometimes we get models earlier, sometimes later. Sometimes we get cars that you don't (see: Nissan X-trail), and sometimes you get cars that we don't (Scion).
I just want to be sure i get the right vehicle from the wrecker!
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Also, what's the deal with XL-7's?! ???
If the auto's all had 5.13's why wouldn't I just use one of them? Would it not be a much more straight forward swap considering they are the same generation as my Vitara? I'm guessing that going that route would mean keeping the SOTF set up, but I'd be fine with that.
There must be a reason the 1st gen Trackers are more commonly used as donors.... wait, are they even!?! :-\
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Because xl7's use a 28 spline rear end, I think the front in the same tho
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Well then, scrap that idea.
Still hoping to hear from some Canadians who have done the swap.... ;D
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One thing that I would mention - and this is a bit speculative as I have never been inside a GenII hub assembly - is that there is a snap ring on the axle shaft under the locking hub of a GenI hub assembly. This snap ring prevents axial (in and out) motion of the axle shaft. One would assume that the snap ring is also found under the "locking cup" in GenII pneumatically-operated axles. As a result, you cannot remove the axles shaft from the hub without first removing that snap ring.
I don't think that this was mentioned in the article...
So before you start using excessive force to extract the "stubborn" axle shaft, remove the locking cap on the outside of the hub where the manual locker would go. There might be a snap ring holding it in place...
Ack is quite right. GenII front axles do have the snap ring.
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A large part of the appeal for using the 1st gen diffs is the ability to use an aftermarket locker into the front diff. If you don't mind retaining the front air actuator and have no plans for installing a locker device in the front, find the '99 model truck with the factory 1.6 liter and you should find a usable set of 5.13 gears with a front air actuator that should bolt directly into your truck and run with your stock CVs.
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Thanks for the input guys!
In the tech specs page here on Zuki world (http://www.zukiworld.com/section_technical/technical_spec_vitara.htm (http://www.zukiworld.com/section_technical/technical_spec_vitara.htm)) it says that even the 2.0L autos had 5.13's. Do those work?
find the '99 model truck with the factory 1.6 liter and you should find a usable set of 5.13 gears with a front air actuator that should bolt directly into your truck and run with your stock CVs.
When you say bolts right in, does that just mean i could just swap the third's and be done with it?
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If the 2nd gen Vitara with a 2 liter engine came with the air actuated front diff and the 5.12 gears you desire then yes, they should swap right out. Yes, I mean, unbolt one and bolt the other in its place (Suzuki part for Suzuki part). The bolt pattern to the axle housing and third should match as well as the CV axles. That would be the cleanest way to gain the higher mechanical advantage you are looking for. I'm sure the 2 door '99 Tracker with the 1.6 Liter came with the 5.12 gear sets.... I wasn't aware the 2 door Vitara with a 2 liter came with 5.12 gears. Makes me wonder now what transmission the Vitara are running simply because I would think a 2 Liter engine should pull stock 27 inch wheels without the higher mechanical advantage of 5.12s. Hmmmm? I was thinking the 2nd gen 2 door Vitaras came with factory 4.88 gears.
Anyway, IanL frequently validates part info here on the forum (and helps keep us both honest and straight). He may verify the info (axle ratios, year, part interchangeability, etc).
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I think you will be disappointed. The info on the Zuwharrie site http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,18763.0.html (http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,18763.0.html) says the 2.0 manual has 4.625, and the 2.0 auto 4.88. Part #s for the 1.6 and 2.0 are not the same, but the Parts Catalog does not list ratios.
Apart from the 1.6, the only model listed on Zuwharrie with 5.125 is the 2001 XL7 auto. (Parts Catalog indicates that is 2001-2003). The bevel pinion and gear set is a different part # so it may not interchange, even if it is the same ratio.
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I think you will be disappointed. The info on the Zuwharrie site [url]http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,18763.0.html[/url] ([url]http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,18763.0.html[/url]) says the 2.0 manual has 4.625, and the 2.0 auto 4.88. Part #s for the 1.6 and 2.0 are not the same, but the Parts Catalog does not list ratios.
Apart from the 1.6, the only model listed on Zuwharrie with 5.125 is the 2001 XL7 auto. (Parts Catalog indicates that is 2001-2003). The bevel pinion and gear set is a different part # so it may not interchange, even if it is the same ratio.
Wow, the info on Zuwharrie is quite contrary to what's on Zukiworld's Tech Specs page.... ???
If true, I'm a little upset that i don't actually have 4.88's but in a way that's good; i can grab the thirds out of a 2.0L auto (which are a dime a dozen) and get almost the same benefits as going from 4.88 to 5.13's!
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That's the route I took. I got ahold of a set of 4.88s out of a 2001 Tracker to replace my 4.62s. I weighed the trade offs. Since I use my truck for a daily driver.... and fuel prices are and will continue to rise, it was a good compromise for my purposes. The secondary benefit is as you increase your diff gear mechanical advantage closer to stock, you also increase (return) your Lo range as well.
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That's the route I took.
Well now I'm excited. Finding 4.88's shouldn't be very hard at all and using Rocky Road's gear calculator it looks as though with my current tires I'd be just slightly under geared, which is A OK with me!
So was it a difficult job? I played around a lot underneath my Samurai but to be honest i haven't even glanced at my Vitara's drivetrain. Is it really as easy as just pulling the axles and swapping the entire thirds? :-\
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The more tools you have access to the more easier the job will be. An extra set of hands never hurt either. Check the air actuator in the new diff before you begin the tear down and installing it or you might be unpleasantly surprised. Using some extra hose line you should be able to remove the air lines from your truck's actuator and attach to your new diff to see if it holds air pressure OK. OR take it to a dealership and have it tested. Have new axle seals on hand to replace the front axle housing seals while it's apart. If the passenger side isn't leaking yet... it will. Replace the rear axle seals too.
-Elevate the front of the truck and support it with some reliable jack stands on a solid surface
-Drain the front diff
-Drain the transfer case
-index the front drive shaft flange then unbolt and remove it (you can try just tying it up and not removing)
-remove the wheels
-remove the ABS sensor (if you have ABS)
-use a floor jack to support each arm as you remove the tie rod ends from the hubs
-Remove the drive flanges
-remove the c-clips off the axle in the hub and the washer behind it
-index mark the driver side CV flange, remove the 3 bolts, drop it down and out
-pry the passenger side CV out of the axle housing and make sure the C clip is still on the end of the stub. If that C clip is "off center" on the shaft it won't want to come out... so take the pressure off the shaft and rotate it a few times and then pry on it periodically until it gets "centered up"
-Support the front axle housing (by hand or more better - by a floor jack and extra hands)
-remove the rear cross member bolt
-remove the four bolts on each side of the axle housing
-"lower" the axle housing down
-unbolt the third and remove (remember to check for the c clip if it didn't come out with the CV... it's still in there somewhere just waiting to screw up your new gears
-remove old seals and replace, coat the seal lip surface with wheel bearing grease
-clean the mating surfaces l
-clean the bolt threads
-apply some silicone sealer and bolt the third on (17 lbs of torque)
-reverse assemble
didn't try it but someone here on the forum suggested unbolting the rack and pinion (4 bolts) and lowering it for more room to access the front axle housing. With the tie rod ends disconnected, I'm thinking you'd want to suspend and support the R&P if you do it. Sitting in front of a computer it's easy to forget how tightly everything is tucked up under the front end.
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Wow :o
Thanks very much for the write up nprecon!
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GO FOR IT!!
I used a Calmi donor. It was too difficult to find a Japanesse donor. For the front diff, I swapped out the WHOLE diff, just had to put on the stock Vit/Track brackets to hold the front of the diff. Way easier, no real reason to swap the pot's.
I could not find out the reason for not using the Calmi diffs. The write up refers to swapping out the Side/Track third member into the Vit/Track pot, which may have been the original problem. Since I kept the unit as a whole, its been fine.
Otherwise, stock hubs are great. Try to get a second set in case there's a seized one.
Since your down there you should beef up the cross member mount. In the link below at the end you can see how a steel strap is bent over the rear of the front diff, definetly needed if you have an aluminium housing. http://www.zukiworld.com/month_020103/feature_frontendupgradeswithhagen.htm (http://www.zukiworld.com/month_020103/feature_frontendupgradeswithhagen.htm)
If you have the steel housing. I would STONGLY suggest that you don't worry about the Calmi issue, pull the ring and pinion and have that put into your steel third and pot.
FYI, your stock rear diff's housing (can) for the spider gears should be the same as a sammie's (easy way to check, is to call about ordering a ratcheting locker). Keep this housing/can, as it is needed if you ever want to put a ratchetting locker in the front. Refer to the link to check what I mean.
Mine has been great for over 2 years. Presently I've just busted the Cursed Aluminium housing that holds the pinion (search 'busted front diff' to get an idea of how weak it is). I must now get a new front diff and try to find a steel Vitatra diff to put the Ring and Pinion In (and locker ;D).
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Now why did this have to come up when I already have my front diff sitting on the floor of my garage? I'd sure like to regear and have a locker in the front. You guys are gonna piss off my wife!
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A new steel axle housing from Suzuki for $168???!! Wow!. I don't have any Suzuki dealers in my area. Sucks!!
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Did I miss something? Where do you see new steel housings for $168? I can't find a used one for that around here!
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Yeah, I know right? In the article (in the link from JayInBarrie) they picked up a new housing from Suzuki for $168. Even 10 years ago that would have been a steal! Inflation I guess.
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GO FOR IT!!
I used a Calmi donor. It was too difficult to find a Japanesse donor. For the front diff, I swapped out the WHOLE diff, just had to put on the stock Vit/Track brackets to hold the front of the diff. Way easier, no real reason to swap the pot's.
I could not find out the reason for not using the Calmi diffs. The write up refers to swapping out the Side/Track third member into the Vit/Track pot, which may have been the original problem. Since I kept the unit as a whole, its been fine.
Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but i'm very intrigued by your success with a CAMI vehicle.
I'm guessing the rear wasn't a problem, just swap the third members and your done?
For the front, after swapping the entire diff (the pot and the third) and using the stock mounting bracket; were you able to use the stock axles?? What did you do to eliminate the SOTF; just plug the air line?
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Anyone? ???
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GO FOR IT!!
I used a Calmi donor. It was too difficult to find a Japanesse donor.
Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but i'm very intrigued by your success with a CAMI vehicle.....; were you able to use the stock axles?? What did you do to eliminate the SOTF; just plug the air line?
Sorry about the late reply. It is the season to be outside, not surfing the net. >:D
The Cami stuff's been working fine.
You still have to make a hybrid axle like the article say's, as one of the stubs into the diff is longer to compensate for the stupid air diaphram.
Yes, just plug up the air line. When the air pump hits 6 psi your 4x4 light comes 'on' on the dash.
Here's some old pics from Suzican 2009
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn204/jayinbarrie/SuziCan09/ (http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn204/jayinbarrie/SuziCan09/)
Here's Zookpower, you may have to join to see some of the pics.
http://www.zookpower.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?14-Suzican (http://www.zookpower.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?14-Suzican)
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I used the rear third from a 98 sidekick sport and the entire front from a 2003 xl7. Not sure where the sidekick sport was made, i am canadian. The front needed 2 mounting holes drilled in order to use one of the centre brackets from my original diff. Apparently 2003 was a changeover year from aluminum to steel diffs... I ordered it and was kinda disapointed when it arrived made of aluminum but it seems to be holding together well. Looks beefier than than the original.
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Well, I wheeled around all summer on my stock aluminum diff with the stock 4.62's and sure enough on my last trip I guess I drove it a little too hard and snapped the darn housing.
I can no longer procrastinate, I gotta do a swap.
So far, the best deal I've found is a pair of diffs ( front and rear) out an '02 Tracker with 4.88's. The guy wants $900(Can) for them before tax! Is that reasonable??? Cause to me that sounds like a lot for a bunch of old metal.
My girlfriend, who wasn't very impressed when I broke the housing is even less impressed now that I'm proposing we spend a thousand bucks repairing the truck. Are there any other solutions to this problem that might be a little easier on the wallet?
Anyone have any suggestions ???
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Update:
Just found a donor vehicle! A '97 Sidekick with 5.13's. I can get the front and the rear assemblies for $400!
Hopefully i can do like JayInBarrie and just swap the whole front assembly (diff and axle housing) and use the stock Vitara mounting brackets.
Wish me luck! :angel:
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Kick ass deal! Good luck!
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Kick ass deal! Good luck!
Thanks! I'm a little nervous about the job, I've installed a few lift kits in my day but I've never tackled a job that involved swapping entire front clip!
If anyone out there knows of any reason why the stuff out a '97 4 door automatic sidekick wouldn't work, please let me know now before i drive the 400kms this weekend and spend all my hard earned money. :-\
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Its always hard to spend hard earned money. I think you will be happy with your upgrades, and have a sense of pride in building your own rig how you want it. I need to do more research before I do any large swaps like this.