ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: wiretap_MD on May 26, 2004, 10:46:05 PM
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Guys I need help. I'm experiencing a mild vibration on my brake pedal only when I press on it. Happens even on low speeds and is noticeable during high speed braking but not that strong enough so as to get me worried about safety concerns. I've had my front rotors and rear brake drums refaced and changed my front brake pads and rear brake shoes. Still the problem persists. Thinking that it may be a warped front rotor that couldn't be remedied by a refacing job, I replaced it with brand new rotors. I even repacked my front bearings when I had my outer CV joint boot replaced. No change in the vibration whatsoever. Am I missing something? Enlighten me guys please. Thanks in advance!
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Is your steering wheel shaking when you feet the vibration in the pedal? If so get the balance on your tires checked. If that does not work it could be a slightly out of round tire or a bad belt, so try switching the front and rear tires. If that fixes it yiu have something wrong with one of the tires on the back.
HTH,
Zig
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just jack up each wheel and turn it buy hand and get a friend to press on the brake for you a little bit you will find the one that is giving you the trouble ;) p.s. most of the time I have someone turn a rotor for me it comes back worse.
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Zukipilot: No steering wheel symptoms whenever I feel the vibration on the brake pedal. I also had my wheel alignment and wheel balancing checked so as just to rule that out as a cause. No problems whatsoever.
mrfuelish: That's a great suggestion. I'll try that out. Thanks!
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Your model has anti-lock brakes, right? A bad "brain" or dead sensor can cause this symptom. (It thinks one wheel is sliding & "pumps" the brakes.) A bad master cylinder, air in the brake lines and mismatched tires can also cause the problem, I'm told.
If you don't have anti-lock, I'd look to the rear brakes for out-of-round.
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mperry: Sorry, my Sidekick (called "Vitara" here in the Philippines) does not have ABS. I ruled out a problem in the master cylinder because I just replaced the entire assembly a few months ago. Checked my brake lines and all seems well. If there was air in my brake lines, pedal pressure would surely change however I don not feel this. I've had the rear brake drums refaced already so out-of-round can be ruled out.
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Rotor warped.
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If there was air in my brake lines, pedal pressure would surely change however I don not feel this.
Yeah, if it was air the pedal would probably feel mushy. I'd bleed the break system just to check though. You just might need some minor adjustments to your break pads and shoes. Sounds like there is some sort of uneven wear in the breaking system. I feel for you man!
steveo
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mperry:  Sorry, my Sidekick (called "Vitara" here in the Philippines) does not have ABS. ÂÂ
Sorry... it looked like a 95 or later. (I thought those all had anti-lock. Maybe on in the US... land of the gullible. <g>)
I look forward to hearing what you find. ALB & warped rotors/pads were all I've heard of. How long has it had this problem?
Oh, yeat, one last test. Jack up each wheel & put a marker between some frame/suspension member & the drum/rotor. Turn each wheel slowly & see if you can see any out of round. I do recall my mechanic friend once finding (something... can't recall what) that caused the drum to wobble.
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BTW, immediately after doing rotors and turning the drums, was there any change, even for a short while?
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I noticed these problems right after I did some offroading in our mountain ranges here which included about 6 short river crossings.
Here's the sequence on what happened: Upon noticing the problem, I first had my front rotors refaced. Problem persisted. Thinking the rear brake drums might be out-of-round, I had them refaced as well. No change. I then changed my front brake pads. No change. Then I changed my rear brake shoes. I noticed that the problem disappeared for about 2-3 days only for it to resurface once more. During those 2-3 days, all I did was city driving.
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You can try this and I've seen it work on a large heavy Bronco running 1-ton axles.
Lift the back end off the ground and let it hang off the ground freely. Secure the frame. Run the drivetrain in 2wd and watch the ds to see if it's out of round, see if the tranny mount is secure, see if the rear axle oscillates, feel the axle for vibrations, see if the shocks mounts are secure, see if the coil is secured; apply the brakes easily at first to try to bring the tires down from speed of 35 mph, see if you can see/feel anything. Then secure the rear axle on stands and the frame off the stands to provide a static load. See if you can determine a source in the rear.
Then do the same for the front in 4wd and with the rear ds disconnected (watch out for fluid loss since there is no flange on the t-case output).
It could be a bent wheel, loose wheel cylinder, broken brake return spring, broken/loose brake shoe, bent ds, out of round ds, bad u-joint, out of phase joints, bent axle housing, loose suspension component, loose pinion nut, or a bunch of other things.
On the Bronco, it turned out to be a bunch of things, loose track arm mount on axle, crack on frame, worn tie rods, broken tranny mount, and loose u-bolts of the rear ds on the pinion.
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Sounds like a broken belt to me. ;D
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Snorkel, 6 "short" river crossings, long drive home, rotors not warped, how about bearings?
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jagular: Thanks! I'll follow your suggestions this weekend.
zutefish: Bearings were checked when I had them repacked with hi-temp lithium grease. Unremarkable findings.
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After wheeling, I'd say mud in the rim
or somthing like that, but I would hope
you caught that when the brake rotors
and disks were turned.
Could the machine shop screwed up
and turned them crooked ???
Just some thoughts
Wild
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I wonder if your proportioning valve is flaking out? Seems to be the only "active" part of the brake system you haven't touched.
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My sister had a recurring problem like you have. It turned out that every time she had her tires changed the mechanic would over torque the lug nuts and warp the rotors. It took us a while to realize what was going on but once we insisted on mechanic use a torque wrench and not an impact the problem stopped.
Patrick
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wildgoofy: Yup you may be right. That's why I decided to change the front rotors to a brand new set. Still the problem persists
Bobzooki: Hmmm..that's something worth checking.
Patrick: That could be a good point however I changed my front rotors to a brandnew set already and still it persists.
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There's a chance that one of your hub flanges is bent. If you can get your hands on a runout dial indicator. if you cant find one a piece of stiff wire may work. Find a place to bolt one end and with the rotor or drum off bend the wire until it is just touching the hub on the face. (mark your start point) Rotate the hub and see if your clearance changes. (for good measure id do this from a couple start points) If the hub is out enough to make the breaks hump then you should be able to see it using this method.
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trackermad: I'm not familiar with a hub flange. Could you care to explain what it is? Thanks.
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Wildgoofy >:( I'm might just go back to "Wild"
and crash the server again :P
Wild
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wildgoody: Ooops..my apologies man. Typo.
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I noticed these problems right after I did some offroading in our mountain ranges here which included about 6 short river crossings.
Then I changed my rear brake shoes.  I noticed that the problem disappeared for about 2-3 days only for it to resurface once more.  During those 2-3 days, all I did was city driving.
I just noticed this message. It is possible that one of the shoes are dragging, overheating the drums. You could have them checked again. Also check the drums for any hairline cracks. (They are hard to see sometimes.) Occasionally you'll get warping of rotors, or cracking of drums, if they are very hot then immersed.
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wildgoody:  Ooops..my apologies man.  Typo.
:) I know, but I had to rub it in
;D
Wild
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Had the same problem for a year or so. Thought it was due to warped rotors and replaced them, but problem persisted and blamed possible incorrect installation of rotors. Vibration was felt on the floor and on glove box at certain speeds. >:(
Turnd out to be a wheel balancing problem, although I checked it at least 3 times during last year. The 2 most balanced wheels were put in front, and everything was perfect again. Only expanation for me is that sometimes wheel balancing equipment is not properly calibrated. ???
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Here's an update:
I went to my friend's shop that had a lifter. Followed mperry's suggestion. Localized the problem to the rear brakes. Swapped the brake drums of my friend's Vitara and installed it in mine. Installed mine in his as well then we did a test drive. My vibration disappeared whereas he felt the problem in his brake pedal this time. Conclusion: it was my brake drums that were warped.
So I went over to the shop where I had it previously refaced and had them re-reface it all over again. So far, things are running smoothly. Hope thats the end of it. Just wanted to thank you guys for all your inputs.
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By the way, just wanted to share with you guys a few links with pictures of our offroad sorties.
http://www.pbase.com/zukiarkitek
http://www.pbase.com/deltarecon
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Here's an update: ÂÂ
So I went over to the shop where I had it previously refaced and had them re-reface it all over again.  So far, things are running smoothly.  Hope thats the end of it.  Just wanted to thank you guys for all your inputs.
Kewel. ;D I'd guess that's it for that prob.
If the prob should happen again, I'd suspect one of the rear shoes isn't releasing.
That can be from driving w/ e-brake on, a rusted/kinked cable, binding in the hydraulics (sometimes a wheel cylinder), or hydraulic pressure not releasing. That last was a bear to find on a VW. One of the hoses was deteriorated.