ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: cyp_raziel on May 14, 2011, 12:19:28 PM
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as i mentioned before i have a 1995 1.6 liter 8 valve vitara. i am trying to build this car for a cpmpetition. an now i am thinking to setup twin 40DCOE carb to my engine. however some friends telling me that when i setub these, it may cause problem when the car is incline or decline.. (lets say not flat). do you know anything about this guys ? :( :( :(
after solving this problem, i need to build a roll cage to my vitara and i have also no idea how to map a rollcage. however i probably go for inside rollcage rather than outside one.
hope you have the answers guys ;) thanks a lot ;) ;)
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i am waiting your reply guysss
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I have only seen pix of this set-up. Haven't run into anyone that had one to ask "How That Working Out?"
CAPT
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First order of business, what kind of competition ???
If it's a river crossing competition I would suggest a snorkel
and not the carburetor
Wild
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we have some water pools but not rivers but i definitelly need a snorkel. i will probably use a airbox and a snorkel to protect carb from water. aslo have inclines declines and obstraction and this kind of staff. i send e-mail to eric but he did not answer..
the problem is some guy telling that side carbs not good for offroad because when the car in incline and decline direction it can cause problem
any suggestions ?
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I have only seen pix of this set-up. Haven't run into anyone that had one to ask "How That Working Out?"
CAPT
Eric runs this set up doesn't he? I was hoping he would speak up.
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Yeah. i actually send him a PM also.. but i think his busy now :( hope he ll reply asap
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I have only seen pix of this set-up. Haven't run into anyone that had one to ask "How That Working Out?"
CAPT
Eric runs this set up doesn't he? I was hoping he would speak up.
I thought I did reply to this thread... Huh?
Well theres a really good article on tuning and in general I'd have to say that it's a good performance mod... It works very well on the trail and street and if you want to go radical with a cam, having one barrel for each cylinder is nice. Just remember there is not vacuum advance port so you'll have to get your dizzy recurved or the engine will always be sluggish on the bottom end...
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_050102/feature_dcoesetup.htm (http://www.zukiworld.com/month_050102/feature_dcoesetup.htm)
If you're going to be jumping a bunch, I'd build some sort of brace like the factory FI brackets to keep the carbs from snapping off on hard hits.... I mean hard hits.
Incline is not a problem and the carbs actually do better than a traditional downdraft like a 32/36.
-Eric
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For the roll cage check out the Project Trouble and Cherry Bomb threads, both have pretty good pictures from when we built our respective cages.
PetroWorks also makes a bolt-in cage, as does Calmini. You can read the review of the PetroWorks cage over at http://zukiworld.com/month_120108/feature_gear-guide-petroworks-sidekick-roll-cage.htm (http://zukiworld.com/month_120108/feature_gear-guide-petroworks-sidekick-roll-cage.htm)
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For the roll cage check out the Project Trouble and Cherry Bomb threads, both have pretty good pictures from when we built our respective cages.
PetroWorks also makes a bolt-in cage, as does Calmini. You can read the review of the PetroWorks cage over at [url]http://zukiworld.com/month_120108/feature_gear-guide-petroworks-sidekick-roll-cage.htm[/url] ([url]http://zukiworld.com/month_120108/feature_gear-guide-petroworks-sidekick-roll-cage.htm[/url])
Taterz Racing build thread has some nice cage pictures as well.
-Eric
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thank you guys.
Eric, how can a make this carbs waterproof ?
where i can dinf intake manifolts?
i am going to purchase weber 40DCOE are you suggesting any other brands ?
how can i fix that vacuum problem?
what i need to purchase except the carb and intake manifolt to build this conversion ?
can you please give me some idea about that bracketss??
what else you suggesting me to do ? (specially for more torque and acceleration)
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cmon guysss.. its an urgent process i need to start buyin products.. :( PLEASEEE HELP ME :(
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Hey - how about posting up some picture of the ride you're working on. That may help us better to guide you.
-Eric
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not a recent photo but its something look like this ;)
Eric, u r the one that help me to solve this problem.. please reply me asap :)
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enough mud ?? lol
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If you're going mudding like that, I would suggest against sidedrafts... The only way to make that work would be to build an airbox and pipe that to a filter in the cab. Do a google search to find images.
-Eric
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Eric i can do an airbox to side drafts aswell i will send you some more photos so that you can understand the parkour. (are you sure that there will be no incline and decline problem)
please help me to solve vacuum problem, than how to fit brackets and hwere i can find intake maniflold (UK specially)
some suggestions for more power??? (no
please help me to sort out the problems... the competition is not to far away..
i will definitelly use a airbox and a snorkel. but first you need to help me to make this car powerful ???
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There may be a language barrier problem here....
Here's simple answers to what I think you are asking.
1 - Hawk Strictly Suzuki has manifolds for the DCOE carburetors.
2 - The inclines and bouncing will not be a problem.
3 - As pointed out in the tuning article, you'll need to have your mechanical advance on the distributor recurved because vacuum advance is not possible.
4 - baseline jetting is also called out in that article. You'll need to tune from there.
Hope that helps, Eric
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thanks a lot Eric. i really appreciated. however i checked Hawk strictly suzuki for intake manifolts but i couldn't find any.
therefore:
1: can you please send me a link for intake manifolt
2: can you explain me how i can use brackets for carb (i want to safe them just in case)
3: i will purchase a better exchaust manifold and balanced cam shaft (any suggestions for cam shaft ???) and also any suggestions for another performance parts (like transfer case gears, ring and pinions, clutches??)
4: please expand your 3rd point (about mechanical advance and vacuum)
i know that i am causing trouble :P :P but there is not enough skilled people in my country and they are against sidedraft carbs for offroad. therefore i need to understand what we need to do to tell them
thanks for your precious advices. i really appreciated ;)
once i will start building i will post more pictures.
looking forward your reply ;)
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also i found couple of places that sells airbox for twin 40DCOE but not in UK. do you have any idea.. just send me some links if you know any places that sells airbox ;)
thanks
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For Hawk Suzuki you need to give them a call, a lot of what they sell is not on the web site. As for the airbox, can't help you there.
Is there a reason you went away from the Fuel Injection and to the Carbs? If you looking for more power a 2.0 or 2.2L engine swap may be a better path.
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as you see in the pictures there is mud everywhere. i need to make everything waterproof. therefore less electrical staff means less problems.
also they cant modify efi here (i mean in a efficient way)
this is why i choose carb. also i reconditioned my engine therefore i wont change it with another engines... (i want to change but its like a dream')
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3 - As pointed out in the tuning article, you'll need to have your mechanical advance on the distributor recurved because vacuum advance is not possible.
guys can anybody tell me how to put mechanic advance on distributor ??? i am unskilled to do this :( what about the fuel regulator ?
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The distributor has a mechanical advance mechanism and a vacuum advance mechanism. You need to lock up the vacuum advance mechanism somehow and then modify the stops on the mechanical advance so it can advance furthe., To get the correct rate of advance you need to experiment with the spring ratings.
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thanks for reply... what about the 45DCOE ?? is it going to be too much for 1.6 vitara or shall i try ?? another question is which one is better for torque and acceleration.. i dont need increase in top speed just torque and acceleration. therefore maybe dual twin carb is not useful for me :S ??
may be i should go for one 40 or 45 DCOE instead of dual. do you have any suggestionsexcept cam shaft and exhaust manifolt change for more performance ??? (i will get rid of catalzor aswell)
lets be interesting lol. can i convert my 1.6 8 valve vitara to 1.6 16valve (but carb again)
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i am looking forward your reply guys.
again asking the question:
how can i change 1.6 liter 8 valve (carb) vitara to 16 vale (carb) ??
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cmon guyyysssss
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16V engines don't have carbs here, so nobody really knows.
I would suggest you do an injected 16V and you won't have
any more drive-ability problems, but you will need all the parts
from a donor vehicle, and it can be a big project if you can't do
the work yourself it could cost a lot of $$
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the camshaft makes the engine, not the carb/carbs. You will never be able to tune/jet dual 45's very well on a 1.6 for low end torque, even dual 40's would be pushing it. I would think a single 40 would be fine and still be good for up to 6000rpm, plus it would be much easier to jet and tune, no balancing between the 4 throats, and there would be no hassle with throttle linkage and associated adjustments. I know there is float bowl mods that can be done on the triple and double downdraft Ida's, Idt's, and Ids's to prevent starving the main jet circuit during hard acceleration and cornering, these might apply to the DCOE side drafts as well, check out the porsche 924 and 944 forums on various sites and see what the racers are doing to mod the float bowls on their side drafts, might help in making the carb a little more off road friendly.
Cheers
Kevin
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cmon guyyysssss
and don't get too frustrated with the speed of this thread. this question is really the opposite of what the huge majority of us on this side of the pond try to accomplish.
the way I see it...for off roading modern EFI is a boon. going back to carbs just doesn't make good since. there is still a distributor involved and both EFI and carbs need good clean air to operate. what is the real problem? water in injector connections? (use dielectric grease).
EFI is much more reliable at angles and fuel supply efficiency.
I am not trying to be a jerk or anything but as this thread goes on the real objective seems to get harder to see.
contrary to popular belief the US has almost every climate region of the whole rest of the world and very demanding off-roading is done here too and EFI seems to do the trick.
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or run propane then have a Barbee afterwards.
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WE USE DUAL CARBS ALL THE TIME OFF ROADING, YOU CAN GET THE CARB HATS FOR REMOTE AIR FILTERS AT CB PERFOMANCE, THEY ALSO STOCK ALL THE JET SIZES FOR RE JETTING. I WOULD NOT GO TO 45s UNLESS YOU ONLY USE ONE CARB , YES ONE CARB IS EASYER TO TUNE. THERE ARE ALSO DELORTO CARBS THAT ARE EASYER TO TUNE BUT YOU WILL PAY MORE MONEY FOR THEM . MY OPPION WOULD BE A SINGLE CARB EATHER WAY.HAVE YOU BOUGHT CARBS YET ?
I HAVE A 4O WEBAR AND A 40 DEL FOR SALE AND WOULD HELP YOU GET IT SET UP . :)
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thaks for reply guys.
Kreator. yeah i can think about the carbs but i need to find a intake manifold. EBEWLEY told that suzuki hawk sell some. but they never replied my answer. i tried another website in belgium (i guess) but no reply again.
so this is the question guys. i ll purchase twin weber 40 DCOE. where i can find a intake manifold ???
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All else you fab the manifold and have the flanges machined, if you need help with that I can fab one up for you. :)
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would be great... but im in cyprus. its hard to got it shipped... and also need some rubber parts etc... so org park will be better ;) but why not ;)
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thaks for reply guys.
Kreator. yeah i can think about the carbs but i need to find a intake manifold. EBEWLEY told that suzuki hawk sell some. but they never replied my answer. i tried another website in belgium (i guess) but no reply again.
so this is the question guys. i ll purchase twin weber 40 DCOE. where i can find a intake manifold ???
CALL Hawk Suzuki. Email is not going to work that well if at all.
-Eric
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thanks for reply guys. specially EBEWLEY.
i talked with my mechanic and he tol me that my ignition is electrical.
therefore how i will sort out vacuum problem. (Eric told me that i need to fit mechanic advance on distributor however i do not know how to do it.
can i sort out vacuum problem with fuel regulator ??
can you help me :( ??
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Keep your electronic ignition, it will work fine with the carburetor