ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: mcb RIDE on May 17, 2011, 12:13:59 AM
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Hey everyone,
I don't have a Samurai yet but I'm hoping to get one soon. I used to have a 2006 wrangler X with a 2.5" RC lift springs kit and 33x12.5x15 Toyo Open Country M/Ts. I'm missing it something fierce right now that summers about to be here. I had to sell it because it had 3.07 gears and I couldn't afford a gear swap/gas to visit my parents while away at college. I read a while ago about people swapping in turbo diesel engines that got much better MPG and just decided to look into it again. I saw a kit for a 1.9L VW TDI engine but it was $16,000! The Mercedes OM617 and Cummins b3.3t swaps are also around $8 and I definitely don't have the money for something like that. I did some more research and I found that a lot of Samurai owners swap the 1.9l as well and for a lot cheaper. After looking around a bit and checking out some forums/youtube videos I'm beginning to think a Samurai is a better option for me. I live right by the sand dunes in Pismo, CA and there are plenty of places to go wheeling around here that I never really got to take my Jeep on and if I could have a 4x4 capable rig but still be able to drive 4+ hours back home without breaking the bank than a Samurai is really my ideal vehicle.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/frostmonkey/Jeep/Jeep1.jpg)
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2235/24680373053957189680477.jpg)
Anyway,
On with the thread!
If you had $10,000 but had to spend some money to buy a samurai and do the vw 1.9l tdi swap, what would you spend the remaining money on?
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What remaining money? You might be able to get some shiny eBay valve stem caps. Trust me this is not a cheap swap.
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just go to a wrecking yard and pull a 16v samurai motor, wiring harness, and computer and then use the remaining cash on toyota axles, 35" tires, tcase gears, roof rack mount,rear swing away bumper, front winch bumper and winch. from what ive been told by local guys here in utah its MUCH cheaper to do the 16v sidekick motor swap rather than the vw diesel motor swap.
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Yep, just like Airman Williams said. 92-98 Sidekick/Tracker 1.6 16-valve motor specifically. If you stay with 32" tires (plenty for the Samurai 80" wheelbase), you can retain the stock axles. It will be a lot of work to build it up though as most Samurais are 20+ years old now.
just go to a wrecking yard and pull a 16v samurai motor, wiring harness, and computer and then use the remaining cash on toyota axles, 35" tires, tcase gears, roof rack mount,rear swing away bumper, front winch bumper and winch. from what ive been told by local guys here in utah its MUCH cheaper to do the 16v sidekick motor swap rather than the vw diesel motor swap.
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I can agrre both with J-Luck & A.M.W..... But I think for 10 grand I could buy a Samurai already built to my liking. From there it would just be a matter of turning the key and pointing it in the direction of the nearest trail......
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Also; if you got a nice well built Sammy for 6k that leaves alot of coin for fuel. If you just have an affinity for diesels by all means go for it man. But don't be disappointed if you spend 7 k on a conversion and only end up getting 3-6 mpg better than a gasser. Been there.
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I'd buy my Turbo Tracker for 7k, then spend the rest on a Trail Tough TrailSlayer Toyota axle conversion.
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Personally as much as I love Sammi's and Trackicks, I would build a very capable Toyota truggy with the works and pocket some cash. Thay already have the drivetrain you would swap to and with dual cases or a Marlin, lockers and four link rear those trucks are unbelievable. Not to mention they are still quite small.
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Personally as much as I love Sammi's and Trackicks, I would build a very capable Toyota truggy with the works and pocket some cash. Thay already have the drivetrain you would swap to and with dual cases or a Marlin, lockers and four link rear those trucks are unbelievable. Not to mention they are still quite small.
Sacrilegious I tell ya' that's as bad as jeep pics.! :)
This is meant as pointed humor, before anybody gets there panties in a bunch.
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for $10k you could easily buy a Sami already built and be done. I saw two softtops on Craigslist a couple months back that had about everything a person could do to them already done for about $10k. Not sure if they sold or what but can't find them listed any more.
While $10k seems high for a Sami, the ones that are close to stock and in good condition are selling for $3-$5k here in SoCal. You add lift, lockers, cage, axles, gears, engine swap, ect... and you are getting close to being better off buying one for $10k already built. Key is finding one built and in good shape and not already torn up.
I would add up what mods you think you want to do and then see if you can find one built or if it is cheaper to build it yourself.
Keep in mind that alot of projects tend to go over budget and take longer than expected.
If you are putting CA plates on it, then don't forget about the smog requirements.
oh, almost forgot to mention....
**** for sale **** 1987 Samurai tintop alot of mods and in good shape - $10k ;)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/31069_393131883882_588853882_4172100_7313616_n.jpg)
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Check out this bad boy :o
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e73/roczuk/Project%20Teal%20Turd/PIC-0173-1.jpg)
http://slo.craigslist.org/cto/2381776539.html (http://slo.craigslist.org/cto/2381776539.html)
His album is called "Project Teal Turd" haha.
I've been scouring craigslist for the past couple days and if I'm willing to do some driving I can probably nab a sammy for under $2000. I made a little budget list at home (I'm at the BioResource and Ag Engineering Department computer lab at California Polytechnic SLO right now or else I'd just post it) and everything added up (+20% for unexpected costs) ended up being $9,874. It consisted of a 6" SOA kit from Rocky-Road, a 1.9L TDI, new 33's and steelies, a guesstimated $2000 in labor, some fender flares, and a few other things I can't think of off the top of my head.
I'm not opposed to buying a pre-built Sammy, as long as I have money left over for the engine swap. I've been reading around and a 1.6 TD seems favorable over the 1.9L TDI because of the price difference and simplicity of the swap. A 1.9l TDI would probably also require some upgraded components to handle the extra torque, right? What gears would be needed to be able to still do around 70-75 on the highway with a 1.6? I'm originally from Stockton, CA and it's a 4 hour drive from SLO and back. I can deal with an uncomfortable ride as long as I can manage at least 70 mph.
P.S. Another compelling reason I should get a Samurai:
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9459/22517218652629054061056.jpg)
My 7 month old German Shepherd puppy, Sammy.
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Sounds like it's all figured out. Put the build in build diary's. Good luck and I don't think you will have to worry about "all that extra torque". To a failure Level. ;)
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If I had 10K to spend, I'd take my stock '87 Sammy, drop a 1L 3 cyl turbo zuk motor into it, lose the rear axle for a tube job, and make it dedicated FWD, lower it, put some 14"rims on it, and turn it into a decent daily driver, and probably still have 4 or 5 grand left over.
Nah. Dumb idea.
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Sounds like it's all figured out. Put the build in build diary's. Good luck and I don't think you will have to worry about "all that extra torque". To a failure Level. ;)
I agree.
BUILD IT
I started with about $6k into mine (including the cost of the Sami) awhile back and then quit keeping track because I was done with it.
Did a quick list of parts now and quit adding when I got over $15k in parts alone.
Not including the cost of the Sami and no labor, tax, shipping, ect fluffed into it....
pretty crazy thinking about all that money gone and impossible to recover...oh well, it's all good unless my wife finds out.
:)
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Personally as much as I love Sammi's and Trackicks, I would build a very capable Toyota truggy with the works and pocket some cash. Thay already have the drivetrain you would swap to and with dual cases or a Marlin, lockers and four link rear those trucks are unbelievable. Not to mention they are still quite small.
Sacrilegious I tell ya' that's as bad as jeep pics.! :)
This is meant as pointed humor, before anybody gets there panties in a bunch.
Sacreligious?, it's Japan, Toyota's cousin started Suzuki when he got fired from Toyota for comin in late all the time He He). I guess I'm just speaking from a bad economy point of view, you never know when things could get worse. And I didn't think you could say jeep on here
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As mine sits now i have somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500 bucks in it. With another 7500 dollars I would def do an engine swap. Probably do a better lift after that. I have a shackle lift which I am not happy with at all. Maybe some lockers, armor and winch from there and honestly I would probably be happy at that point. I think with a 1.6 16V swap with about 3 inches of lift or so and locked up with good tires you would have a very capable performer that still makes a decent daily driver.
$2500. now
$849 OME 2 inch lift
$300 1.6 16V from salvage(guesstimate)
$300 Performance Clutch from trail tough
$580 Trail tough 1.6 conversion kit
$500 Lockers from Trail tough
$599 4.6:1 T Case kit from trail tough
$400 Winch
$400 Fabrication money for bumpers(Probably a lot more than i will need)
$200 Fabrication money for rock sliders(again, probably high estimate
$1000 five superswamper 29/10.50 or 9.50 not sure which i would go with. And a matching rim for the four i have :)
That would total about $7700 bucks. So i would have a 2300 dollar cushion for stuff i may have left out. If i had 7500 dollars on top of my 2500 that i have invested now, i think i could have a kick ass rig that was still useable as a daily driver. I think set up like this you could do some decent trails but still have a somewhat civil rig on the roads.
So the big question is this: Who is going to pony up the 7.5 Gs for me to start ordering parts :)
Edit: I forgot I am in desperate need of different seats. Mine are shot. Not tore up they just dont give any support. I have seen a lot of people swap in neon seats. So probably would go that route.
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I think your estimate price for a good 16valve engine is off.
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It probably is. I have no clue on that. What are people paying for them?
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Most likely $1,000 up unless you can score one at a u-pull-it yard where they are very hard to find in running condition. Most I have seen are high mileage (toast) and the reason why the vehicle was dumped in the first place.
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it really depends on the engines, a place here in utah has motors for around $125 on wednesdays with wednesdays being half off days.
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Yep, I've pulled quite a few Suzuki 1300 and 1600 8-vavle longblocks at the local pull it yard for $100. Its a lot of work in a muddy field though-especially moving the large A frame across the yard. No cherry picker on the Metros either. I did pull a 16-valve from an Esteem-that was a lot of work.
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Doesn't the 1.6 16v gasser get pretty crappy mileage?
This guy lives 4 hours south of me and sells vw engines
http://www.qualitygermanautoparts.com/index.php?p=p1281760817&navt=1900cc%20Turbo%20Diesel (http://www.qualitygermanautoparts.com/index.php?p=p1281760817&navt=1900cc%20Turbo%20Diesel)
here is a motor he has listed on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-1900-Diesel-NA-Complete-Engine-Rabbit-Jetta-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dLVIQ26ituQ3dUCIQ26otnQ3d3Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d63Q26clkidQ3d75653564943938737QQ_trksidZp5197Q2em7QQitemZ290559915553 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-1900-Diesel-NA-Complete-Engine-Rabbit-Jetta-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dLVIQ26ituQ3dUCIQ26otnQ3d3Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d63Q26clkidQ3d75653564943938737QQ_trksidZp5197Q2em7QQitemZ290559915553)
And he uploads youtube videos if you want to hear/look at the difference between the motors.
Here's a video of the motor from that auction:
435 1900 NA.MOV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJGDf92qMtQ#)
Seems like a pretty good deal.
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That's exactly what I had for my sidekick. The mileage was negligibly any better than the 16v. If you end up doing this, I still have my turbo if you are interested. It's a new rebuild by the master turbo builders at bell turbo.
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I think the VW diesel is hands down the winner for overall best swap. The money and ability involved to do the swap scare me. The VW engines around here go for stupid money.
Gas mileage is not at the top of my list. I have a deal working for a daily driver diesel truck that will be running on fryer oil. My daily driving cost will be minimal. Plus if i want to take the sammy some where to wheel, i can trailer it even if i have to rent the trailer and come out on top. The GMC truck is already converted and the guy who owns it is a close personal friend. It was his DD till he upgraded to a 2003 Dodge diesel. The truck has over 200K on it. However, it was a fleet truck so had regular maintenance done and my friend has taken good care of it. It is mechanically very sound. It is ugly as sin but i am not buying it for looks.
I would love the VW swap and then convert the sammy to fryer oil but I am leery of the cost and the technical skill required to pull of the swap. I think the 1.6 swap is much simpler. I will be having the guys at trail tough do the wiring so that part of it is taken out.
I would love to turbo a 1.6 16v motor. That should put hp to around 140 or so? That would make a screaming sammy!! I love turbo engines. My Audi was a friggin blast to drive.
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The 16v gets decent mileage, the issue is it's pushing a brick through the air. The 1.3l 16v gets 35 or so in the Swift GTI, drops down to 25 in a Samurai. You can only get so good of mileage pushing a solid wall of air at 60 mph.
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I'd just buy two nice stock Sammis' and a decent Tracker, put 235's on all of them, and go out wheelin' (and I'd probably still have money left over)
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I'd just buy two nice stock Sammis' and a decent Tracker, put 235's on all of them, and go out wheelin' (and I'd probably still have money left over)
Thats excactly the way to go. If one craps out you have plenty of parts. Then when you are through fartin around, build one. ;D