ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: AJMBLAZER on May 25, 2011, 11:45:44 AM
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My '02 Tracker has the OME medium rate springs all around. My trouble is that the previous owner did not put the OME struts on and instead went with strut extenders that screw onto the strut's shaft and effectively lengthen the strut. The struts themselves are blue so I'm thinking regular Monroe's.
A-I'm not impressed with the strut's performance
B-Prior Owner did not correct the camber for the taller springs so now the tires sit like this: \ /
This worries me a bit as it can't be good for the front tires or anything else for the matter.
I know the Old Man Emu N103S struts are intended to be used with these coil springs and have the bolt holes setup to correct the camber with these springs. I'd love to purchase them...
...but they're $150 or so each plus shipping...
...OUCH. :o
So are they really that great? I've heard they're awesome when used as a whole system...also heard of warranty issues. Then there's the cost...I can get a set of KYB's and have $40 left over for what ONE of these cost! Are they really that great of quality for the $300? If I spend that on front struts they better be doing fine 5 years worth of daily driving from now.
I'm leary of slotting the knuckle holes or the camber bolts. I don't offroad this thing too hard but I do enjoy taking the train tracks fast and hard and bumping around in the ruts and holes at work with it. So struts capable of holding up to my aggressive driving style would be good and if they fixed the camber at the same time that'd be great.
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I run the OME struts on my truck and the struts are not drilled to correct camber they do improve the ride but don't seem to hold up very well. You are right about there warranty too. You need a set of camber adjusting bolts. I have ran camber bolts in my zuk for 5 years already and I wheel it hard and have never had a problem. My wife's sidekick also has a set that have been in there for over 40k and once again not a problem. SR CUSTOMS carries the ones you need. Here is a link: http://www.srcustoms.ca/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=40&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=56 (http://www.srcustoms.ca/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=40&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=56)
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Actually they do correct for the 1.25" lift that the OME coils provide. However if you have more lift then...
I've had camber bolts before. Just not terribly hot on them. They're dinky when you compare them to the stock bolts. I dunno.
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I've gone through 3 or more sets of OME struts, usually not the fault of the strut in my case. 4" of suspension lift will do that. I've been lucky in being able to pick up some low time used ones, and am always looking for more. I consider them wear parts and figure on replacing them regularly due to the way I use my rig. They are longer than stock, the only longer struts that I'm aware of, and IMO they do work great, but before I shell out for new struts again ( that's providing I can't find more good used ones) I'm going to take a good hard look at the Bilsteins. They certainly look beefier with that extra large diameter upper. I've always used camber bolts, with no issues.
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Honestly I used camber bolts in the past. Just in "low beatings" situations. They just seem so much tinier than the thick stock bolts.
I've seen reference to Bilstein making shocks for Trackers...have a link?
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Nope!
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Nope!
...'kay... ::)
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Definitely take a look at the Bilstein strut... IMO they are much better and they seem to last a fair bit longer too... plus you can get them anywhere Bilstein is sold. :)
-Eric
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I am just not finding the Bilstein struts anywhere. Like the Suzuki application is listed at Bilstein's site but no retailers list it...
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Found it. Finally just googled the part number:
http://www.eshocks.com/bil_Ind.asp?VC=91Q10&SubChar=Q (http://www.eshocks.com/bil_Ind.asp?VC=91Q10&SubChar=Q)
$133 each though...damn...
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Found it. Finally just googled the part number:
[url]http://www.eshocks.com/bil_Ind.asp?VC=91Q10&SubChar=Q[/url] ([url]http://www.eshocks.com/bil_Ind.asp?VC=91Q10&SubChar=Q[/url])
$133 each though...damn...
eshocks or shockwarehouse are probably your best bet...
I know it's a plunge but everyone I know that has put them on has really like them and the Bilstein equipped 'kick I test drove handled really nice.
Maybe some of the ZWC racing guys can chime in. I think 3 of the teams are running that strut.
-Eric
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Hard to stomach at that price. The odd part is that eshock's list price is $98 and their retail is $133. Normally retail is cheaper than list, not the reverse. I sent an email.
Makes me hate myself for not buying that set for $150 a few years ago...since I had sold my Trackers/Suzukis. ::)
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I have been through a couple of sets of OME struts too. I won't buy another set.
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Sounds like they're not getting great reviews anywhere.
Definitely not going there. Bilsteins or something else.
Now I'm wondering about the rear shocks.
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I am running the Bilstein shocks on the Kick and love them....
I also ran the OME struts on my last Kick with the calmini 3" lift. They were MUCH better than the stock replacement struts. If I was running IFS I would be using them (or the Bilsteins).
Zig
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Zukipilot, Ebewley, you guys have been around for a long time. What do you use for camber correction...if you've had to?
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Zukipilot, Ebewley, you guys have been around for a long time. What do you use for camber correction...if you've had to?
I always ran calmini kits on my IFS rig. I ran their 2" for a while and then the 3", camber adjustment already built in. The only time I needed to adjust them is when I tried to get a little more lift out of the 3" (with spacers) and ended up trashing CV every time I went out. So I went back to original 3" lift height instead of messing with camber and blown out CV's. I'm the type that would rather let someone else do the engineering and fab work then me trying to work it out ;)
Zig
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I had the Calmini 3" on my '96 and still had to run the camber bolts. It had NO weight to it though. Stock bumpers, no armor, no winch, no interior or backseat, etc.
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The bilsteins are worth every penny. Just make sure you use a limit strap and bumpstops so you don't destroy them. I think thats why most people "go through" struts so fast. If I was to build another IFS rig, they would be one of my first purchases.
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Zukipilot, Ebewley, you guys have been around for a long time. What do you use for camber correction...if you've had to?
For almost all the terrain, I use camber bolts (my daily driver has them) but if I was jumping a lot or wanting to go "hard core" I slot the strut and add/weld washers onto the tabs once camber is correct or build longer a-arms... Hagen may want to chime in.
-Eric
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I won't be beating on it as an offroad vehicle. Just a daily driver that is driven aggressively, doesn't slow down for train tracks, and bumps around harder and faster at work sometimes than most soccer mom SUV's ever see.
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Stock vs Bilstein for comparison:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Zu8hMlztqPo/S8V2Ezvf2TI/AAAAAAAAGpQ/i_klaeuq50k/s640/SSPX0420.jpg)
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Uhmmm..so eshocks replied to my email and their list price is now $269 each!
No way. Nuh uh. These things could be the best shocks on earth and I'm not paying that much. Might as well buy Fox, SwayAWay, Bilstein reservoir, or something even fancier for that much...dayum...
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Stock vs Bilstein for comparison:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Zu8hMlztqPo/S8V2Ezvf2TI/AAAAAAAAGpQ/i_klaeuq50k/s640/SSPX0420.jpg)
Just so there's no confusion - the bilstein strut shown uses an "inverted" strut design, so what you're looking at there is not the piston rod of the strut, but the outer tube.
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Think I'm just going to go with KYB GR-2 struts. No one other than Tokico lists a performance shock for these things and they say they don't fit the 99+ body style. I can replace each KYB 5 times for what Bilstein wants for one.
I'd love the performance but ouch...no way can I afford to pay over $500 for two struts. FAH! ::)
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I'm curious about that - don't fit the 99+ body style - if I'm not mistaken, OME uses the same strut (N103S) on all the Vitara/Grand Vitara from '88 ~'05. Suzuki has a whole host of different numbers - 2/4 door, L/R, w/wo ABS - so presumably the damping is different rather than the physical fit, along with a bunch of brackets for brake hoses & ABS wiring.
The other thing that intrigues me - performance shock (and I was reading the Bilstein catalogs & FAQs) - shouldn't there be a difference between an "on-road" performance shock, and an "off-road" performance shock?
When I think "on-road" performance, I'm thinking lowered vehicle stiffer springs and a shock with possibly reduced travel and increased damping - when I think "off-road" performance, it's the opposite - lifted vehicle, increased travel, I don't know if I want a softer spring (although I believe a longer spring with the same spring rate is a softer spring), and I'm not at all sure about the damping. There may even be a need for different types of "off-road" performance - for those of us who are into slow travel with lots of articulation (rock crawling) and others who are into faster travel with less articulation (but still more than on-road) - let's call it "un-paved touring".
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That's kinda where my conundrum lies...something stupid like a slightly different brake hose bracket or internal differences that would make it ride stiff/squishy/floaty/like a buckboard wagon/whatever?
I ran the KYB's on the XL7 the ex has and liked them a lot. I'll go with them. The ACDelco premium gas charged intrigue me but eh...probably about the same as the KYB's.
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Think I'm just going to go with KYB GR-2 struts. No one other than Tokico lists a performance shock for these things and they say they don't fit the 99+ body style. I can replace each KYB 5 times for what Bilstein wants for one.
I'd love the performance but ouch...no way can I afford to pay over $500 for two struts. FAH! ::)
Oh dude... seriously don't get the KYB struts... I have them on a Sidekick right now and HATE them... I see where you've ran them on an XL7 and maybe with the added weight of that vehicle they were OK. For me though, with the added 'performance' of the KYB struts and rear shocks, I was able to make my 2-door Sidekick ride like a Samurai. (no offense to the Samurai guys intended)... They're really firm on the initial 'hit' of a bump and then go mushy on big travel 'hits' like dips and what not. Exactly opposite to what would be good. So, stutter bumps are brutal and slow whoops are out of control. They stink.
of course, YMMV. :)
-Eric
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Liked them on the XL7. Then again I was comparing them to the 60k stockers.
Hrmmm...otherwise my options are Monroe Reflex or ACDelco Premium Gas Charged.
The Tracker is a 2.0L 4cyl 5 speed manual 4x4 2002 Tracker 4 door.
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Just so there's no confusion - the bilstein strut shown uses an "inverted" strut design, so what you're looking at there is not the piston rod of the strut, but the outer tube.
True, but it's still going to have better cooling and should be stronger over-all. I toasted a set of Monroe struts in a single weekend on the Fall Adventure challenge. The Bilsteins held up for the entire first round of the Zukiworld Challenge on Project Trouble. Faded out about half-way through the second, but Bilstein can rebuild them with different gas for $50 that should allow it to run at higher temperatures without introducing fade.
One of the issues with the front end is it is a strut design. So unless you are going to have something custom made up your pretty limited on choices.
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I'm not knocking them - just pointing it out so no one else does what I did - because I went - wow - that's beefy.
I thought about it some - I can see advantages & disadvantages both ways - I was sufficently interested that I went searching, but like AJM, I backed down at the price - they are even more expensive than the OME.
I guess I'm going to keep on looking at what other people use until I reach the point when I have the cash in hand and can order the OME springs & struts that I'm considering - or until the one shock that's leaking dies on me and forces a decision.
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when I install jeffs spacers on my 02 track will i need to extend the steering shaft or is that only for body lifts
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Only for body lifts
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I have OME struts / complete suspension and I'm very happy with the ride. The alignment is within factory spec without camber bolts. I did have a strut go out and ARB replaced it no questions asked.
(http://s3i.dotphoto.com/iF9F2026B-421A-4659-A555-359314B05E8E.jpg)
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Come on man - axle stands are cheap - life & limb - irreplaceable.
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I do normally use jack stands ... for supporting the lower control arm at an angle with the coil spring in place, 4x4's with an angled wedge on top was much more stable and didn't interfer with unbolting the lower ball joint. I agree, Safety First!
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I do normally use jack stands ... for supporting the lower control arm at an angle with the coil spring in place, 4x4's with an angled wedge on top was much more stable and didn't interfer with unbolting the lower ball joint. I agree, Safety First!
[/quote
I hear ya :) Is that safety first before or after we rip our knuckles on that rusty chunk of iron :laugh:
And I agree, an OME set, coils and matching damping is a great mod for these, keep to reasonable rubber, no bigger than a 235 and it'll ride better than stock , give you a decent bit of lift without gaining too much height which really effects the handling on these.
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A little blood every now and then is right part of wrenching.
I have the same theory, small lift and 235's gets me where I want to go.
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So Schaney, are they worth the $300?
How long is the warranty?
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IMHO they are, the ride is better than stock. Check with ARB on warranty length, I think it's 24 months. If you're close to Salem OR, I'd be happy to take you out for a ride.
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Hahaha, thanks for the offer but I'm in Lexington, KY.
I've gotten a bunch of great reviews regarding the ride quality and performance. It's the longevity that bothers me. Numerous reports of them being replaced and/or failing. Enough that it makes me cock an eyebrow for a $300 set of struts that aren't King/Fox/Bilstein/whatever fancy brand.
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Looking to get a little more height out of my 95 4dr sidekick. Would a OME set (2 struts, 4 springs, 2 shocks) be worth the cost? RRO sells it for around $700-800. I'm not looking for an extreme off road rig, the occasional desert trip and mild crawling is all its gonna see.
Also, with the OME set, would I need to strap the struts to prevent over extending them?
Thanks for the help.
EDIT - How would a set of Jeffs coil spacers and OME longer struts work out? I realize the rear shocks need to be lengthen but I have something else planned for that.
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An oldie but a goody
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444978 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444978)
Fairly inexpensive for a great off road capable Trackick
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An oldie but a goody
[url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444978[/url] ([url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444978[/url])
Fairly inexpensive for a great off road capable Trackick
yeah I briefly saw that thread while doing some searches. I'll have to look more into it. Seems to be exactly what I wanna do to mine. Thanks for the link.
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Yes KY is a bit of a haul, to go for a ride. No limiting strap needed on my OME suspensions. Not sure on longevity, my Kick came with the OME suspension. So not sure how many miles where on them before the one went out, have about 5K miles on the replacement ones I put in.
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Well, I got a half answered reply back from ARB today. They state that the OME struts DO NOT correct camber. Horses mouth but I've heard and read differently on here and other sources.
Guess KYB struts and camber bolts it is then. I can have that delivered for less than one OME strut before shipping.
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Hrmmmm, might have to call and ask. Would be the same exact strut.
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Exact same strut, exact same spring - if you call OME in the USA they may tell you that the GV was not available in '98 - it wasn't introduced in the US until 99, but every where else had it a year earlier.
Incidentally - that reply was from ARB USA - from a gentleman whose email signature proclaims him to be the sales manager for southeast USA & Latin America
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Mine was from "ARB USA Tech & Marketing Assistant" which makes me think he's got no clue.