ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: jesusfreak on June 12, 2011, 07:56:59 AM
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Thanks for a great forum!!
I am looking at buying a samurai and found one I like but I feel like the owner is asking to much money.
Is 11000 for a Samurai built by PetroWorks with a new sidekick 1.6 engine with header and aluminium radiator, rebuilt transmission, PetroWorks transfer-case, new drive-lines, Rubicon Express lift kit, bead lock wheels etc. to much money?
This is just a few items on the list that he has either replace or upgraded.
Matt
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That's a bunch of cash, but Gary does good work, and for you to get all of this
done, unless you pieced it all together and did all the work, you likely would
spend about that amount, don't forget the base truck in good shape and rust
free would set you back 3-5K, so if you got the $$ I would make the trade.
Wild
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Thanks for the advice!! I forgot to mention that it would be my daily driver.
Reliability is important and with all the new gear I would assume it would
be pretty reliable? The large amount of cash for a samurai just seems like
a lot for such an old and small vehicle. :)
Matt
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You probably don't realize that these are getting harder to find
all the time, look at the old VW Bug, many now are selling for
3 and 4 times what they sold for new, and if a rare collectable
they can be 25K and more, something to think about
Wild
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Thanks, I did not think about the fact that they might become a collectors item.
After spending 11k on a Samurai it would be nice to know that maybe someday I could sell it for what I bought it for. :)
If I do buy it then I better be really sure I like it as selling it for 11k would be hard or would it?
I think I have almost convinced myself to buy it but I sure would appreciate some more feed back from the people who know.
Investing 11k into a car the Kelly Blue Books at 2k is kinda hard. ???
Matt
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You can't use blue book on a vehicle that is customized like that one
You have a 1.6 engine, is it a 16 valve? what size tires? is there a low range gear set
in the t-case? Is there a locker in the rear? There is a lot to look at.
There is about $1200-1300 in tires and wheels, the engine swap is $4200-4700 on his web site
for an 8 valve engine, then the rebuilt trans at $675, new driveshafts at $150-300 each to
have made, and all the work is done already, and that costs a bunch, unless you do it your self,
then there would be all the research you would have to do, and learn about a new vehicle and
the tools you might not have to buy....................
Yes that is a lot of money, but the cost is fair in my opinion, and Gary is a good guy, I have met
and talked with him in his shop, good people
I would like to hear what some others have to say
Wild
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Below is the ad with all that was done to the zuki. The seller is a super nice guy and has all the receipts for all the work done by petroworks. I am going to go see it on Saturday and depending on the feedback I get maybe buy it. So please chime in on the parts that were used on this zuki. I need all the advice and help I can get, to make the right decision.
This car was professionally built by Petroworks. There is over $22K invested into the building of this car. It has a Suzuki Sidekick 1600cc four valve per cylinder & fuel injected engine that was professionally rebuilt & installed. It has the OBDI Computer & wiring harness conversion. It has the Sidekick power steering upgrade, aluminum radiator, a Doug Thorley exhaust header, with new cat and exhaust. It has a Petroworks adapter kit, motor mounts, and their high performance clutch, the transmission was rebuilt by Petroworks. The transfer case is a Petroworks GRSII rock crawling gears, the transfer case & tranny mounts are by Spidertrax, HD CV's & Driveshafts, the suspension is by Trail Tough. It has their Jeep YJ Missing Link suspension kit with new Rubicon Express Leaf Springs, this lift kit provides a 8.5" lift, new steel braided brake lines, over the top/cross over steering, the shocks are Rancho 9000 adjustables. Petroworks Rock Sliders, It has a Petroworks 15 gallon poly gas tank and skid plate, This car also has a locker in the rear... The interior sports a Petroworks sport cage, Carbeau Baja Racing Seats w/harnesses front and rear. Line-X sprayed on the floor boards. It has an Alpine sound system. The tires are 33" X12.50X15 Pro Comp Xterrrains. The wheels are true beadlocks by OMF. The front & rear bumpers are by Shrockworks. The front bumper has a built in tow hitch & is ready for a winch, and the rear has a swing away tire carrier w/matching spare. The spare tire carrier has a Jerry can holder or can carry a Hi-Lift Jack. This car only has a 1000 miles on the rebuild including the motor.
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I'll give you another vote of confidence on Petroworks.
Great people, great work !... not just Gary but all the others to... (to include Widget, the dog).
I've seen the ad you were talking about.... or atleast I think it is, well it has to be the same one that he is asking $12k for.
I thought about going to look at it just to check it out, since it is not too far and it sounds similar to mine minus a few things.
I agree with Wild... add up the parts and see where you are at.
Here is a quick search from the vendors online...
Keep in mind these are NOT installed prices unless mentioned !
Petroworks engine swap = $5000 including smog cert (installed)
Trail Tough YJ kit = $1357 (NO springs)
GRS II t-case = $900
CV HD driveshafts = $850 (Trail Tough)
Power Steering kit = $400 ish
Headers = $250
Petroworks gas tank = $400-500
Petroworks cage = $650
Petroworks sliders = $225
Shrockworks bumpers = +$1000
That is over $11,000 in parts (not installed) and you don't even have a Samurai yet to install the parts onto and some parts in the ad are not added in yet.
The questions I would have is :
Why is he selling it ?
What condition is it in (rust, dents, top ect) ?
Does it need any more work to make it your daily driver ?
Leaks ?
and then drive it.... take it on the type of roads you will drive to work (fwy, streets, ect).
The price listed on the ad is $12k and that is alot of cash but you are getting alot of already setup Sami too.
Keep in mind that if you don't like what you see, you can always look around at others. If you have the $12k to spend on a Sami you have upperhand and can buy pretty much any Sami out there right now, that I have seen.
I might even consider selling mine for $12k and it has even more parts on it than what the one in the ad does.
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WOW, thanks for looking up all those prices! That really helps! Seems like it is worth what he is asking so I guess I have to decide if I really want to fork over 11k+ for a zuki.
Do you guys think he used the right parts or should he have used other parts? Seems petroworks is a unanimous thumbs up so I guess the suspension, tires and wheels are the only things in question.
Matt
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Do you guys think he used the right parts or should he have used other parts? Seems petroworks is a unanimous thumbs up so I guess the suspension, tires and wheels are the only things in question.
Matt
Trail Tough YJ missing link kit kit is one of the best, in my opinion. I run these front and rear.
Not sure if he is running missing links front and rear or just front.... hard to tell by the pics from the ad and he doesn't specify.... almost looks like the rear doesn't have them based on the shackle angle but hard to tell.
The tires are the same ones that I run except I run the now obsolete 31" version. I will go to these 33" tires if and when I wear these out. The tires seems to wear pretty good on the street and also do great off road too.
Wheel - do not know anything about these, sorry.
I think he used alot of good parts.... but I am partial since I have alot of the same parts on mine.
He doesn't mention which locker he has in the rear. I didn't care for the Lockrite or Detroit for daily driving but I am just picky.
Also on the gas tank he doesn't mention if it has the fuel pump inside the tank or mounted on the frame rail. The one inside the tank is so much nicer and is just some more icing on the cake if he has it.
I am surprised with a rig as built up as this that he didn't upgrage the front axle shafts, but maybe he did and didn't mention it.
** Matt - I sent you a message too. Too make sure we are talking about the same Sami **
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Also Petroworks isn't afraid to get out with customers and use the Sami's too.
They put out an invite on the website for last run they did.... good times out there and great people !!!
Check out the pics in the Gallery on the Petroworks website :
http://www.petroworks.com/gallery/Memorial-Day-2011-Death-Valley (http://www.petroworks.com/gallery/Memorial-Day-2011-Death-Valley)
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Those pics look like a fun trip!!!
Thanks for the conformation on the parts. When I Googled every last part they all looked good but getting first hand experience is much better than Google.
Matt
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I have talked to 3 guys and all say the same thing. His price should be around 7k tops.
Does this seem right?
Matt
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It's worth what your willing to pay for it. For the amount of time and equipment he has put into the rig it is probably worth the 11k they are asking. But you never get out of your rig what you put into it, usually. The question is if you think it's worth it. It could be that you two can meet somewhere in the middle between 7k and 11k. :)
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I have talked to 3 guys and all say the same thing. His price should be around 7k tops.
Does this seem right?
Matt
What kinda Sami do you want and what parts upgrades would you do if you bought a stock one ??
What is this Sami worth to you ??
If you want a Sami with the setup like the one advertised, then buying it already built will save alot of time and dollars over buying a stock one and adding even some of these parts.
If you are not really interested in all these mods then I would not buy that one but save some cash and buy one without these mods or just a few of these mods.
Maybe you should back up and re-think what you really need or want in a Sami. Then price out what parts would cost+labor and go from there.
Since I also have some of these parts, I listed a quick price (not installed) for some of the parts above that this Sami has done and you can easily look up more parts prices.
Here are a few vendors that I would suggest and have dealt with :
Petroworks : http://www.petroworks.com/ (http://www.petroworks.com/)
Trail Tough : http://trailtough.com/ (http://trailtough.com/)
Shrockworks : http://shrockworks.com/Suzuki (http://shrockworks.com/Suzuki)
Low Range : http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki.html (http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/suzuki.html)
SHOP around.... see what else is out there.
Go look at this one and then look at others. I see 18 others listed in the same search, everything from ones that aren't running to mildly built ones. Also maybe search neighboring areas too.
If you want to see an even more expensive Sami, because I would have to have more than $11k for mine, come look at mine.
It all comes down to what YOU want and what YOU think any particular Sami is worth.
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Well, I need a daily driver as I had to sell my Toyota Tacoma due to my job hours being cut in half.
This samurai has the rebuilt motor and is only geared 16% over stock so it would make a nice daily driver.
He offered it to me for 10k but still not sure...... ???
Matt
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Tough call. That is still a lot to spend on a Samurai even if it has been built well.
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Yeah, that is a lot of money for a Samurai. :o Most of mine I've bought for under $1000. Some as little as $45.
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Do you guys think 8 grand is more reasonable?
Matt
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It's got quite a bit of stuff on it, but it sounds like a lot of money was spent on labor. I can't believe that the 1600 16-valve swap cost $5,000!
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It's got quite a bit of stuff on it, but it sounds like a lot of money was spent on labor. I can't believe that the 1600 16-valve swap cost $5,000!
yeah, and people line up to have it done.... AND you will probably end up spending more since a person might as well do the power steering too and if you wanna keep your ac then you have to convert it as well..... it adds up quick.
I am surprised more people aren't working on Sami's in SoCal, seems like alot of money to be made in it.... but then again maybe the reason we don't have alot of shops that will mess with these is it isn't as easy as it sounds.
If CA didn't have the smog requirements then it would make it alot easier.
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Here is another one and half the price. This one needs gears if I intended to use it a Daily Driver.
He said the guy that had it before him rebuilt the motor which does not instill confidence. :)
Newly rebuilt '93 1.6L 8 valve Fuel injected Trackick engine with fuel pump in tank.....
80 amp altenator.....
Thumb throttle.....
Thorley smog legal header....
Petroworks HD clutch....
GRS II 4.9 ratio transfer case with twin stick.....
Front axle has 5:12 gears with Detroit E-Z locker.....
Rear axle has 5:12 gears and Lincoln locker....
5) 33" Pro Comp X-Terrains on real beadlock rims (except spare)....
JP eater with YJ spring conversion....
Petroworks belly pan.....
Rock sliders.....
Front winch bumper with stinger and tow bar...(NO winch)
No rear bumper.....
Trackick power steering with stage 2 OTT steering.....
Full roll cage.....
Windshield fold-down kit....
Trackick seats....
Bikini and full soft top.....
Quick removeable Bushwacker 6" flairs.....
48" High lift style jack......
Fire extinguisher....
Also comes with an automatic trans conversion parts.....
Misc. spare parts.....
Clear CA. title and registration good till Jan. 2012....
Smog cert. expires June 21st....
Has dents and rock rash......
Price is so very FIRM!....CASH IN PERSON ONLY....NO TRADES!
PLEASE, SERIOUS ONLY!
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5.12 gears and a GRSII may not make a good daily driver if you are going to be on the freeway.
You will be spinning +4500 rpm at 65mph.
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html (http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html)
I think you might want to do more research before you buy any Sami.
I would go look at a few of them and drive them. Make sure that you even want a Sami before jumping into one for a daily driver.
What a Sami is worth in one area WILL be totally different in another area.....
Shop around the area you are going to be buying in and see what they are going for.
Do some research, asking a world wide forum what a Sami is worth is going to get alot of mixed responses.
I doubt you will find a clean Sami in SoCal, that you can use as a daily driver, for $45-$1000, but I could be wrong...
A clean looking unmolested Sami around the SoCal area right now appears be listing for around $4500-5000k range.
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/2421042528.html (http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/2421042528.html)
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/2407541252.html (http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/2407541252.html)
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/2402089680.html (http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/2402089680.html)
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/2431649062.html (http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/2431649062.html)
Here are a couple listed high dollar Samis in the area
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/2427624655.html (http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/2427624655.html) - $10k
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/2414142155.html (http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/2414142155.html) - $9k
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It's got quite a bit of stuff on it, but it sounds like a lot of money was spent on labor. I can't believe that the 1600 16-valve swap cost $5,000!
I too was blown away when I saw that price!!! Looking to driving one.
Matt
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Wow, thanks for the links! I am currently driving my dads Samurai , much to my wifes chagrin as it not in the best of shape.
It is not a luxuray car but the size and open top make it fun to drive. I am trying to learn as much as I can about samurai's
which is what led me here.
Matt
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Also Petroworks isn't afraid to get out with customers and use the Sami's too.
They put out an invite on the website for last run they did.... good times out there and great people !!!
Check out the pics in the Gallery on the Petroworks website :
[url]http://www.petroworks.com/gallery/Memorial-Day-2011-Death-Valley[/url] ([url]http://www.petroworks.com/gallery/Memorial-Day-2011-Death-Valley[/url])
Is your samurai in one of these pictures?
Matt
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Also Petroworks isn't afraid to get out with customers and use the Sami's too.
They put out an invite on the website for last run they did.... good times out there and great people !!!
Check out the pics in the Gallery on the Petroworks website :
[url]http://www.petroworks.com/gallery/Memorial-Day-2011-Death-Valley[/url] ([url]http://www.petroworks.com/gallery/Memorial-Day-2011-Death-Valley[/url])
Is your samurai in one of these pictures?
Matt
Yeah, it is in a couple pics in the gallery.
If you get a Sami you will have to watch the Petroworks website for when the next run is and head out there... good times !!!
Here are a couple more pics of mine:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/31069_393131883882_588853882_4172100_7313616_n.jpg)
and a pic stretching out ...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/38245_411995088882_588853882_4672983_1162322_n.jpg)
Here is a quick description of mine :
1987 Samuari Tintop, rust and wreck free, with 110k miles - 1998 X90 engine with 65k miles - CA smog legal - Daily driver and very capable off road.
- Petroworks 1.6 16v engine swap (with air conditioning and power steering) / Petroworks 15gal gas tank (pump inside) / Petroworks tintop Roll cage / Petroworks steering stabilizer kit / Petroworks pumpkin caps / Petroworks mud buster fender flares / Trail Tough 6.4 t-case / Trail Tough Twisted TT / Trail Tough Mighty Kong / Trail Tough rear drive disconnect / Trail Tough HD CV front drive shaft / Trail Tough full skid plate / Trail Tough flat tow bars / Trail Tough YJ with missing links F&R / Trail Tough double tough axles / Trail Tough hybrid rear axle / JE Reel HD CV rear driveshaft / 4.30 R&P gears / ARB lockers F&R and ARB compressor / Pro Comp Xterrain 31" x 12.50 tires x 5 / Pro Comp 15" x 10 black rims/ 2.5"bs x 5 / Shrockworks front bumper / Shorckworks rear tire carrier bumper / Shrockworks sliders / Tmax 9k lb winch / Zor Pany Liner / Polaris t-case mounts / Camo seat covers F&R / Cobra CB radio / CD stereo with aux input and 4 speakers / mounted fire ext .... I am sure I am forgeting some but that is the majority of it.
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if you find a Sammy you just love and it does what you need buy it! it don't sound like cash is a problem so a few years down the road that 10K will long be digested and a faint memory. buying a rig from a reputable company usually costs more than what the average Joe could ever recover from a build but at least you will know its (more than likely) done right!
find....buy.....enjoy.....
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The is one clean looking tin top. 8)
I like how you painted the top, although I would have probably chosen white for the upper portion though to held repel the sun's rays. I have a black tin top that I'm thinking about painting the upper half white. I might just do the top portion though like on a old VW Bus.
I imagine you've got to be screaming on the highway too with the 1600cc 16-valve, 6.4 t-case, 4.30 R&P, and 31" tires. I have a 1600cc 16-valve, 6.5 t-case, .865 fifth and 32" tires and I want to swap in a 0.795 fifth tranny to help lower the rpms.
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Man my996duc1, that is one of the nicest samurai's I have ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You must have a small fortune in that thing!
What do you think of the 1.6 16v compared to the stock motor?
Matt
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if you find a Sammy you just love and it does what you need buy it! it don't sound like cash is a problem so a few years down the road that 10K will long be digested and a faint memory. buying a rig from a reputable company usually costs more than what the average Joe could ever recover from a build but at least you will know its (more than likely) done right!
find....buy.....enjoy.....
Well, there is a cash problem as I have to take out a loan to buy it. :)
The reputable company building it is why I was considering spending the extra money.
The seller is a really nice guy. He has answered all of my 101 questions and I feel if I did have a question after the sale I could just shoot him an email. I am supposed to go look at it on Saturday and I hope it is a nice in person as it looks to be.
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The is one clean looking tin top. 8)
I like how you painted the top, although I would have probably chosen white for the upper portion though to held repel the sun's rays. I have a black tin top that I'm thinking about painting the upper half white. I might just do the top portion though like on a old VW Bus.
I imagine you've got to be screaming on the highway too with the 1600cc 16-valve, 6.4 t-case, 4.30 R&P, and 31" tires. I have a 1600cc 16-valve, 6.5 t-case, .865 fifth and 32" tires and I want to swap in a 0.795 fifth tranny to help lower the rpms.
Thanks !
The previous owner painted it... the teal blue/green wouldn't have been my first choice in colors.
On the bright side, I have the ac setup from the 1998 X90 so heat isn't a big issue.
This is why I think Jesusfreak should avoid the one he is looking at. ......
5.12 R&P with 4.89 t-case is going to be winding up over 4500rpm at 65mph.
Over 4500rpm would probably be fine, but kinda high in my opinion..... If he is sticking to surface streets then it would be fine.
Gotta always watch the "high" range reduction when doing t-case gears. The 6.5 t-case has a 20% reduction in high, the 4.89 t-case has an 18% reduction, and the 6.4 t-case has a 17% reduction in high. It will make a difference at freeway speed. I did ALOT of research before doing my setup.
I am spinning about 4000rpm at 65mph and have a crawl ratio of 100:1.
You are probably about 3800rpm at 65mph with a crawl ratio of 88:1. The earlier transmission should drop around 300rpm off your cruise speed.
I am going to go to a 33" tire one of these days and that should drop me to about 3750rpm at 65mph and still maintain a good low 100:1 crawl ratio.
4.30 R&P is my limit as I am running a hybrid rear. These engines aren't afraid of the rpm but my goal was to stay under 4000rpm at freeway cruising speed.
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Man my996duc1, that is one of the nicest samurai's I have ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You must have a small fortune in that thing!
What do you think of the 1.6 16v compared to the stock motor?
Matt
Thanks !
The cost of parts add up quick but when building mine I finally told myself that if I couldn't afford the part I wanted, then I would wait and save up until I could afford it. This came after settling a couple times on parts I didn't really want but could afford at the time. It cost more to change out parts a few times then it does to save up and buy what you really want once. For example, I wanted the ARB lockers but stayed away because of cost. So my first was the Lockright locker and I busted the pins, next the Detroit locker was too jerky for daily driving, so then I saved up and went to the ARB locker and it is perfect... I should have saved my cash and went ARB from the start (which is what I originally wanted).
16v is night and day compared to the stock motor, in my opinion. Go test drive a couple of them with each engien. The setup of the Sami will effect how much of a difference you feel but you will be able to get an idea.
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At one time I had a 4:1 case, 3.73 R&Ps, 0.865 fifth, the 32" tires and the 1600cc 16-valve. The 1st and 2nd gearing was a little tall on the street (and too tall for the trails), but I could easily cruise at 75mph on the highway. I remember passing a Jeep guy on the hwy once (at about 80mph) and he was visibly stunned. :laugh: So, I know that the .795 fifth will work well for my application. Just need to swap in another tranny.
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At one time I had a 4:1 case, 3.73 R&Ps, 0.865 fifth, the 32" tires and the 1600cc 16-valve. The 1st and 2nd gearing was a little tall on the street (and too tall for the trails), but I could easily cruise at 75mph on the highway. I remember passing a Jeep guy on the hwy once (at about 80mph) and he was visibly stunned. :laugh: So, I know that the .795 fifth will work well for my application. Just need to swap in another tranny.
Ok, I am very close to pulling the trigger on this thing. Is there anything he did wrong or should have done different? Are there questions I should be asking? I have done a ton of research in the past few weeks but I am still learning and could really use some wisdom. I do not want to invest 10k and find out opps I have to redo this or that. :)
Thanks, Matt
The Ad
This car was professionally built by Petroworks. There is over $22K invested into the building of this car. It has a Suzuki Sidekick 1600cc four valve per cylinder & fuel injected engine that was professionally rebuilt & installed. It has the OBDI Computer & wiring harness conversion. It has the Sidekick power steering upgrade, aluminum radiator, a Doug Thorley exhaust header, with new cat and exhaust. It has a Petroworks adapter kit, motor mounts, and their high performance clutch, the transmission was rebuilt by Petroworks. The transfer case is a Petroworks GRSII rock crawling gears, the transfer case & tranny mounts are by Spidertrax, HD CV's & Driveshafts, the suspension is by Trail Tough. It has their Jeep YJ Missing Link suspension kit with new Rubicon Express Leaf Springs, this lift kit provides a 8.5" lift, new steel braided brake lines, over the top/cross over steering, the shocks are Rancho 9000 adjustables. Petroworks Rock Sliders, It has a Petroworks 15 gallon poly gas tank and skid plate, This car also has a locker in the rear... The interior sports a Petroworks sport cage, Carbeau Baja Racing Seats w/harnesses front and rear. Line-X sprayed on the floor boards. It has an Alpine sound system. The tires are 33" X12.50X15 Pro Comp Xterrrains. The wheels are true beadlocks by OMF. The front & rear bumpers are by Shrockworks. The front bumper has a built in tow hitch & is ready for a winch, and the rear has a swing away tire carrier w/matching spare. The spare tire carrier has a Jerry can holder or can carry a Hi-Lift Jack. This car only has a 1000 miles on the rebuild including the motor.
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Your killing me! Pics?
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Your killing me! Pics?
Lol here is the ad
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/2428162931.html (http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/2428162931.html)
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Honestly, I would buy a stock Samurai or a mildly built one if I was buying one for the first time.
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Find out what sort of warranty comes with it. :D
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Honestly, I would buy a stock Samurai or a mildly built one if I was buying one for the first time.
Thanks I really appreciate the honesty!
Matt
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A much better daily driver would be a stock one with a mild lift (2" OME), a little bit bigger tires (29" or 30" ATs) and a 4:1 case. It would still be decent on the highway and could run many trails. The one you are looking at would primiarly be a trail machine-especially with the beadlocks, lockers, and super low gearing. I don't think it would be too fun to drive around town or the highway.
Pictured is my buddies with a mild setup (plus a rear locker) and he runs all the trails in Oklahoma, Ark, MS, and KS with my club. Really beats the snot out of it sometimes. Keeps on ticking though!
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A much better daily driver would be a stock one with a mild lift (2" OME), a little bit bigger tires (29" or 30" ATs) and a 4:1 case. It would still be decent on the highway and could run many trails. The one you are looking at would primiarly be a trail machine-especially with the beadlocks, lockers, and super low gearing. I don't think it would be too fun to drive around town or the highway.
Pictured is my buddies with a mild setup (plus a rear locker) and he runs all the trails in Oklahoma, Ark, MS, and KS with my club. Really beats the snot out of it sometimes. Keeps on ticking though!
I really apreciate the advice! That is very helpful? Why such a small lift for a daily driver?
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Better handling (lower center of gravity), better MPG, less stress on the drivetrain, etc. The more you modify it from stock, the worse it performs on the road. You don't need all the lift & large tires for the street. The stock size tires are 27" on a relatively narrow 5.5" rim.
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Better handling (lower center of gravity), better MPG, less stress on the drivetrain, etc. The more you modify it from stock, the worse it performs on the road. You don't need all the lift & large tires for the street. The stock size tires are 27" on a relatively narrow 5.5" rim.
not sure I would strike such a broad stroke with the statement that the more you mod it the worse it performs on the road.
while I agree with some of this, an engine swap really wakes up any Sami, with mods or stock, and in no way do I believe it will perform overall worse on the road with just an engine swap or sometimes a little lower gearing can help also. Alot of variables involved with a low hp vehicle as to where and how it will be driven.
I do agree that the lift will hurt mpg and obviously have a higher center of gravity.
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I believe that you are taking it out of context. I meant to refer to his last statement, "Why such a small lift for a daily driver."
All the suspension mods, larger tires (more rolling mass), lockers, super low of gearing will make a Samurai less suitable for the road.
My bone-stock '94 Samurai handles roadway chores much better than my '88 Samurai with 32" MTs, 1600 16-valve, 6.5:1 t-case, lockers f/r, SPOA lift etc. Not saying that my '88 is bad handling, but my '94 is more comfortable on the road.
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I believe that you are taking it out of context. I meant to refer to his last statement, "Why such a small lift for a daily driver."
All the suspension mods, larger tires (more rolling mass), lockers, super low of gearing will make a Samurai less suitable for the road.
My bone-stock '94 Samurai handles roadway chores much better than my '88 Samurai with 32" MTs, 1600 16-valve, 6.5:1 t-case, lockers f/r, SPOA lift etc. Not saying that my '88 is bad handling, but my '94 is more comfortable on the road.
I agree with you on the lift not helping out on the street.
I see what you are saying but this guys sounds totally new... you can't make broad statements because he may take them for exactly what is said.
Another example here.... you mention "lockers" as effecting a Sami to be "less suitable for the road", granted most lockers might effect street performance except ARB lockers will effect nothing on the road. This guy may assume you mean all lockers.
I do understand how one Sami might be better or worse for the road but it all depends on what mods are used and how the Sami is setup when comparing the two. So many different variables to consider.
Sorry, maybe I am reading your posts wrong.
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Looks like there's a catch pan under the motor in the pic. ???
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Yep, 1,000 miles on the rebuild, and there is a catch pan under the engine area. Something is wrong. I would walk away from this one.
As far as the guy being a newbie, yes, he needs to do his homework before making such a large purchase. I'm not going to write a 20 page essay on all the Samurai mods and how they impact street performance. So, yes in broad summation, most suspension lifts will make a Samurai less streetworthy. They all raise the center of gravity.
Lockers: ARB equipped Samurais are quite rare. I think I've seen 4 or 5 on the trails over the past 10 years. 95% of traction devices consist of lunchbox lockers, spools, or Lincoln lockers, all of which negatively impact road driving.
Yes, I am trying to steer him towards a more stock & reliable Samurai. Most heavily modified ones suck on the street and that's probably the reason that this one is for sale. It sucks as a DD. (I bought a similar setup one that is atrocious on the street. However, I only paid $3000 for it and it came with Spidertrax Sidewinders, 16valve, PS, GRS 2, etc. :P ) A stocker with a mild lift is much more enjoyable to drive on the street. Even with the little stock 1300cc as long as it has t-case gears. Believe me, I've got eight (8!) running Samurais-several stockers to mild mods to heavy mods. There's a reason why they are all setup differently.
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Lockers: ARB equipped Samurais are quite rare. I think I've seen 4 or 5 on the trails over the past 10 years.
Yes, I am trying to steer him towards a more stock & reliable Samurai. Most heavily modified ones suck on the street and that's probably the reason that this one is for sale. It sucks as a DD. (I bought a similar setup one that is atrocious on the street. However, I only paid $3000 for it and it came with Spidertrax Sidewinders, 16valve, PS, GRS 2, etc. :P ) A stocker with a mild lift is much more enjoyable to drive on the street. Even with the little stock 1300cc as long as it has t-case gears. Believe me, I've got eight (8!) running Samurais-several stockers to mild mods to heavy mods. There's a reason why they are all setup differently.
Last time I was out wheeling, 5 of us in the group of 9 were running ARB lockers ... I didn't realize they were that rare.
I agree with you, a stock one would probably be better in this instance. I would still suggest to go drive this one and look at it. Drive as many as a person can and look at the different mods before buying anything.
Nothing worse than buyer's remorse.
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(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tPAJ98nQ8sQ/Tf1oBoDKg5I/AAAAAAAAAOc/CaUPLQD1Eqo/s288/2011-06-18%2B19.51.57.jpg)
Today I bought a bone stock 1986 zuk. It had 98k miles and many of those were behind a motor home.
Now for the fun part, making it me. :) Please let me know if this will work or if there is better way.
My thoughts were these modifications to start with:
Toyota Axles (wider stance for safety and stronger overall)
Trail Tough - Wranger YJ springs front and rear
31x10.5x15 tires
Paint it candy apple red
Trail Tough front roll bar (safety)
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something like this
(http://z.about.com/d/4wheeldrive/1/7/a/8/Jaredsuzukiproject3.jpg)
or like this
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x92/costman13/sami001.jpg)
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wow what a sanitary rig.
here's what I would do....
wrangler spring conv.
quality spoa kit
keep the Sammy axles and wheels (there already yours)
quality wheel spacers if you just have to have it wider.
with 31's I don't see spending the extra cash that could buy a ARB, bumpers, or????
my 2 pennies :)
both those rigs still have OE axles too.
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wow what a sanitary rig.
here's what I would do....
wrangler spring conv.
quality spoa kit
keep the Sammy axles and wheels (there already yours)
quality wheel spacers if you just have to have it wider.
with 31's I don't see spending the extra cash that could buy a ARB, bumpers, or????
my 2 pennies :)
both those rigs still have OE axles too.
Thanks for the advice!!!! I thought the Trail Tough YJ kits put the springs over the axles?
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=7&Itemid=53 (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=7&Itemid=53)
Matt
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yep that looks like one complete kit that does it all!
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This is a learning curve. It looks like to do it on a budget I still need the front and rear yj kits plus the spoa kit.
Is this correct? What is the difference between missing link and no missing link?
Thanks for all the help!!!!
Matt
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It looks like I was deceived. I asked them if the car had a clean title and was told yes but it turns out to be salvage.
I paid 3900. It is really, really clean but what is it really worth? How much money did I over pay? I am sick over it. >:(
Matt
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That sucks! And 3900? :o
I would get my Money back! And look to a well built one. From 3900 to 10k really won't get you very far. Might look back at that built one and put a stock t-case in it or some other gear manipulating if it needed for DD duty.
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That sucks! And 3900? :o
I would get my Money back! And look to a well built one. From 3900 to 10k really won't get you very far. Might look back at that built one and put a stock t-case in it or some other gear manipulating if it needed for DD duty.
It is in very good shape but I think 3900.00 is too much for a salvage title ca??? Do you think the car would be worth it if the owner will reimburse me 40 percent which is 1500? It is hard to find one in this good of shape.
Matt
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Sounds pretty fair to me. If your fine with the title issue and its not some "taco bell parking lot" repair job. It really could be anything that caused the brand but they need to tell you and refund some coin I think.
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FYI,
A whole bunch of vehicles that have had "Flood Damage", The insurance companies get branded as scrap/salvage if they do a "Totaled Payout".
If it smells like "Fish/Seaweed" I 'd walk away as soon as you got your cash back!!
CAPT
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It really depends on why it was salvaged, and what you are going to do with it
but the salvage title should reduce the price
Wild
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It is in very good shape but I think 3900.00 is too much for a salvage title ca??? Do you think the car would be worth it if the owner will reimburse me 40 percent which is 1500? It is hard to find one in this good of shape.
Matt
YES, you over paid.
You went from looking at paying half of what a Sami had into it, to atleast double what a salvage Sami is worth.... not sure how that happened but I would try to get my money back and then re-read the entire thread.
NO, it is not worth $1500 at this point. I wouldn't trust any information the previous owner has told you about the Sami. What else is wrong, needs fixed, ect.... This person is obviously trying to dump this thing and saw you coming a mile away. A salavage title isn't something you just forget about.
If you want to mod a Sami immediately after buying it, why not buy one that already has some parts on it to save some cash. Alot of clean Sami's out here in SoCal, just gotta take your time and shop around. Maybe the one in Riverside has too much stuff on it, so skip it and SHOP AROUND. As long as the cash is still in your hands then you have options, once it leaves your hands then you are no longer running the show.
If this guy gives you your money back, you may want to do some more research to know what you are looking at and buying so you can not get ripped off again and/or take someone else with you to look at them too.... shop around...
Good Luck.
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It is in very good shape but I think 3900.00 is too much for a salvage title ca??? Do you think the car would be worth it if the owner will reimburse me 40 percent which is 1500? It is hard to find one in this good of shape.
Matt
YES, you over paid.
You went from looking at paying half of what a Sami had into it, to atleast double what a salvage Sami is worth.... not sure how that happened but I would try to get my money back and then re-read the entire thread.
NO, it is not worth $1500 at this point. I wouldn't trust any information the previous owner has told you about the Sami. What else is wrong, needs fixed, ect.... This person is obviously trying to dump this thing and saw you coming a mile away. A salavage title isn't something you just forget about.
If you want to mod a Sami immediately after buying it, why not buy one that already has some parts on it to save some cash. Alot of clean Sami's out here in SoCal, just gotta take your time and shop around. Maybe the one in Riverside has too much stuff on it, so skip it and SHOP AROUND. As long as the cash is still in your hands then you have options, once it leaves your hands then you are no longer running the show.
If this guy gives you your money back, you may want to do some more research to know what you are looking at and buying so you can not get ripped off again and/or take someone else with you to look at them too.... shop around...
Good Luck.
Yes, I got taken and I fill sick about it. I am gong to follow up with the owner in small claims court. I had a buddy of mine me, he is a dent body man and told me the sami was clean and had never been wreaked. It is in really good shape. I have looked at a lot of them and this one was one of the nicest. I wanted one that had not been hammered on. Do you think I should ask for a 40% or 60% refund of my money based on the salvage title?
Matt
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Yes, I got taken and I fill sick about it. I am gong to follow up with the owner in small claims court. I had a buddy of mine me, he is a dent body man and told me the sami was clean and had never been wreaked. It is in really good shape. I have looked at a lot of them and this one was one of the nicest. I wanted one that had not been hammered on. Do you think I should ask for a 40% or 60% refund of my money based on the salvage title?
Matt
I doubt you will get far in court. It is your word against his and the burden of proof is yours. I doubt the seller is going to stand there and say "yes, I lied".
Small claims court would be a total waste of time, in my opinion.
I would call the seller and try to get a refund since they lied about the title. If they won't give you your money back then ask for a partial refund and let them tell you how much of a refund, since you will be lucky to get anything back. Take whatever you can get back if anything and move on, consider this a learning experience.
Your mechanic said it is in good shape and never wrecked... kinda would make me worry why it was a salvage title then. Atleast if it had been wrecked and repaired you could tell what was wrong with it.
Did you ask the seller why it has a salvage title ??
Give it a good look through to make sure it won't leave you stranded on your daily drives and then just enjoy it.
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Back in the early 90s, body shops/rebuilders liked Samurais as they were easy to repair and then resell for a profit. I bought a parts Samurai a few years back that had a really straight body. One day, I was working on it and I noticed that some of the spot welds in a particular area looked non-stock. That's when I realized that most of the back half of the tub had been replaced. Whoever did it, did do a good job though.
As far as the salvage title, I would demand some money back.
Here in OK all the salvage title means is that an insurance claim was paid that stated that the repair cost was over 50% of what the vehicle was worth. So in a particular scenario a hood replacement with new parts could cost $600+. Kelly Blue Book probably says that the Samurai is worth less than $600, thus the vehicle was totaled and a salvage title was issued. Then the owner got a used hood in the same color for $200 from a Salvage yard. Vehicle fixed and the owner pocketed the remaining money.