ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: weaver on May 26, 2005, 05:47:40 AM
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i looked into exhaust issues and my exhaust is around 1 1/2"------- the calmini one is 2",, is this make that much of a difference, or should i see about getting a 2 1/2 or larger one??
im getting the air filter though-- K&N and Calmini are the same price.. and say they do the same effects..
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Hi there
My own experience with the wifes Sidekick 4dr, 1.6/16v, 5spd.
Ran it for 2 days to see what it was like stock/stock
(everything good, 160,000km). Then installed K&N repalcement airfilter and had a custom 2 1/4 exhaust installed from the manifold back.
Noticable jump in power, better throttle response, torquier and a 4mpg jump in gas mileage.
Works for me
Zag
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Hi there
  My own experience with the wifes Sidekick 4dr, 1.6/16v, 5spd.
  Ran it for 2 days to see what it was like stock/stock
(everything good, 160,000km). Then installed K&N repalcement airfilter and had a custom 2 1/4 exhaust installed from the manifold back.
  Noticable jump in power, better throttle response, torquier and a 4mpg jump in gas mileage.
Works for me
Zag
what muffler did you install? did you put a calmini header on it?>
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custom exhaust from where? ?
how much did that cost you ,(if you dont mind me asking)
the calmini exhaust is around 190.00 U.S.
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from what ive heard the calmini EXHAUST is nothing special, id say hook a flomaster on it with 2-2.5 inch pipe and it will do the same thing if not more power
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Hello again
The muffler was an off the shelf "Turbo" muffler installed by the exhaust shop I've used for years. No I didn't add a header.
It's the wifes car so she didn't want me going crazy. (Still trying to figure out how I'm going to break the 2.0L conversion on her.)
The shop I use in Alberta charged me $200.00 installed with a 1 year warranty. I had it done about 2 yrs ago and have never had a problem.
Zag
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Hell, my current exhaust costed about......30 bux?? It's a piece of 2" pipe bolted on RIGHT behind the Cat (I cut the stock stuff off about 3-4" behind the cat) and it was 2". I have that going to a 2" turbo muffler from summit (like 15) and now I need to get a turndown because it is right on the axle. The piece of pipe was 3' long, and was like 10 bux from NAPA.
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well i just got my exhaust changed too 2" also
it was from cat back turbo muffler and bent over the axle to betweet the stock exit and the gas tank...( i did this since the bumpers will be gone and the piipe is protected by the skid bar.....power is more responsive all the way therough it is still very quite and the gas mileage sucked like a bag of sh3t....only becuz i hammer it too hear ;D the only thing I have done soo far to the intake is remove the snorkel to the fender ( it sound a lot better now ) ut will chage to a cone soon....this should be well rounded ....oh the shole thing cost me $150 CAD all inc
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Getting ready to do the 2" exhaust my self.
Hell, my current exhaust costed about......30 bux??
Seems bout right. Got most of the parts left over from other projects so just going to piece it together. Got some 3 1/2" pipe also, but I think that may be a bit of overkill. ;D
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By the way, on the headers, are the tubes like 1 3/8 inches? Or am I way off? ???
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I wouldn't get carried away on header size. You want to keep your power in the useable (torquier) range so I would avoid going to a four to one racy car type system.
I used the Calmini header onmy other project, its a tri-Y design, because I wanted to try and keep the torque up. There are several other good headers out there so shop around for a good tri-Y style.
Zag
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I just put a new exhaust on the Kick
before Moab, a 2" to 3" weld reducer
from the industrial plumbing supply, a
3" 90* from the scrap steel pile, I think
it was part of an intake system from a
medium duty Diesel truck, a used 3" cat
from a Chevy P/U that got a new exhaust
system, and a section of 3" exhaust pipe
and a turn down from Autozone, Ohh and
a 3" header collector from them too, tho I
only used the flanges to bolt the exhaust
to the turbo, I think
No muff needed with a turbo, but I need
to extend it to the back
Wild
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its all about the glass packs...
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its all about the glass packs...
:D yep
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Hi there!
I'm new here and this is my first post. I'm from Kiev, Ukraine (it's Central/Eastern Europe)So I apologize for my English :).
Owing a 95 Samurai, 3.5 Calmini Lift Kit, 30" BFG AT's, modified intake with deeply modified Solex carb on it, K&N air filter in stock place, MSD Blaster Coil 2 Off-Road + MSD 8.5 Wires + Denso Iridium IW16 plugs, Calmini's Tri-Y header and custom selfmade cat-back after it, 4.89 Petroworks T-case kit, AVM 538 hubs.
Well backing to the topic. It's all started after I've rebuilt my engine, I'd noticed that engine can't breath properly, so I started thinking of getting a new exhaust system. My friend brought me Calmini's header from US as a present for New Year. Therefore the header has a 2" out I ordered Cherry Bomb Glass-packed muffler (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=IMM%2D87507&N=700+401524+115&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=IMM%2D87507&N=700+401524+115&autoview=sku)) and bought Bosal's pipe, Bosal's resonator (cavity maybe) and all other Bosal's pipe-angles,flute and couplings. I know that if I did all the way through 2" pipe I'd lack some torque in low-to-mid rpms (1000-1800) so glass-pack took it's place just after header and then I reduced inner pipe diameter from 2" to 45mm with two couplers(51mm -> 48mm and 48mm -> 45mm) to keep torque line smooth, at the end of the system I've installed small resonator (45mm also) to make less noise.
What I get?
I get a good sounding, all the way straight-through exhaust system. Power gain is about 12-15% (~10 bhp) + better mileage(? fuel economy).
Will post som pics later.
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dimitros
seems like you did it right. especially with noticible power increase.
i don't understand the "back pressure" thing i keep hearing about. i do not grock the idea of restricting exhaust flow to gain power.
seems like no restriction at all would be ideal?
i have put on a cheap pacesetter header to 29"glass pack to cherry bomb muffler- all 2 1/2" from header(too loud without muffler).
i've only test run so far and it seems to run easier(idle increased quite a bit), but can't feel much difference powerwise. sounds different.
i look forward to my next fish trip- see how it really goes.
richard
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rascott
The back pressure thing helps to prevent air-fuel mixture to get blown out to exhaust while engine working on high rpms, cause there's such thing that inlet valve is already open and outlet one isn't shut completely yet, so you are loosing usable fuel. But if reduce exhaust diameter too much one might expirience other side of the coin, exhaust fumes will get into the ignition cahamber and ignite the gas inside before the inlet is shut causing detonation.
I know that normally atmospheric engines require back pressured exhaust systems.
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I run 2 inch on every sammy, tracker I have wheeled. Made a decent about of difference in power performance.
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Any "backpressure" is a loosing proposition in any engine. Nowhere in any engine building or design criteria will you find a spec for "backpressure." It's flat bad for any power producing engine. Exhaust systems are all a compromise for sound restrictions. The best ones have NO restriction.
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Any "backpressure" is a loosing proposition in any engine. Nowhere in any engine building or design criteria will you find a spec for "backpressure." It's flat bad for any power producing engine. Exhaust systems are all a compromise for sound restrictions. The best ones have NO restriction.
Well, if you just keen to power, then it is so, no "backpressure" thing, but there's also fuel economy and efficiency + some ecology (maybe :) ) left.You see bentparts, we have here, in Ukraine, no sound restrictions (there are but none cares) and $5.5 for gallon, so I do mind about blowing my money away, they should fairly be burned in cylinders.
I wrote about "backpressure" considering only naturally aspirated gas feeded engines (atmospheric) but in case of turbocharger/supercharger one must have no restrictions in exhaust.
And again, if a car equipped with a catalytic converter then also no "backpressure" needed. Catalytic converter works itself as "backpressure".
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i wanted to see what difference a header could make.
it was fun in the driveway, but way to loud to drive on the street, so i put a glass pack(29"cherry bomb) on it and ran pipe out the back. all 2 1/2".
drove that a little and realized i needed more muffling action or i was going to hate hwy driving.
i added a cherry bomb muffler.
certainly not a stealth vehicle.
i will see how it performs on the trail, 'cause i can't feel much difference on the street- mabe some improvement on hills.
bit of a hack job and obviously not well planned. my next one will be better.
mabe.
i will have to replace all this in 1year(smog).
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I'm thinking of adding a turbo, and live in smog-nazzi california too *sigh*
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Any "backpressure" is a loosing proposition in any engine. Nowhere in any engine building or design criteria will you find a spec for "backpressure." It's flat bad for any power producing engine. Exhaust systems are all a compromise for sound restrictions. The best ones have NO restriction.
x2.
There is such a thing as a negative pressure pulse that helps extract the exhaust gasses at a certain rpm. However you don't need any restriction, you can get that from the end of an open exhaust. In a multi cylinder engine most of the tuning is done in the header anyway.
If you drive on the road then silencing is nice to have, a nice big silencer with little restriction is ideal.
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I'm still a fain of QUIET. I want to enjoy the trail, not someone else's exhaust tone ON that trail.
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I'm still a fain of QUIET. I want to enjoy the trail, not someone else's exhaust tone ON that trail.
;) Me Too. NO Problem, you can still have an unrestrictive exhaust system on a stock motored 16v. I think about a 2-2.25" exhaust with the LARGEST freeflowing muffler you can fit should help quite a bit. Big volume in the muffler will reduce "backpressure" and noise, but allow it to flow. Drop in a good filter, K+N, or similar, and that's about as good as you can get with stock engine internals. I wouldn't mess with the airbox if your going to go off road. Those cone's don't like water. Some say a header on the 16v is not necessary as the stock system is very well designed, but before I did my turbo I ran a Calmini header, 2" exhaust with a large turbo muffler, and K+N Filter and the motor responded very well to that. Everything else you can throw on the outside of a motor is basicly wasted, except for a GOOD set of ignition components. my 2 cents.
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I'm still a fain of QUIET. I want to enjoy the trail, not someone else's exhaust tone ON that trail.
i usually don't see a lot of people, but i don't like a lot of noise either.
my next one won't be using a glass pack. it'll have a cat also.
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a free flow cat and a resingnator.will quiet the exhaust and still let it flow.
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mine has a magnaflow muffler, hedman header,2 inch tube, free flow cat and res, nice sound but when open up it opens up
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Doug Thorley tri-Y header to cat to resonator to thrush welded muffler and out the back. I have done 2 this way with 2.25 pipe (a sammy and sidekick). Both sound great and definately add power. I think next time (yeah I got another tracker) I will do the same combo only stay at 2" pipe. The only issue with the 2.25 pipe seems that there is not enough speed in the exhaust at idle so it gets some humidity build up (read that as water dripping from tailpipe at idle). I think going to 2" will help that and not lose anything.
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As was said before, some pics of my exhaust
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...and so much hated by many people "backpressure" thing.
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You guys.....so silly.
Reading through posts about trying to squeeze more power from such a powerLESS engine is funny.
Like you are all in denial.....It's like an AA meeting!
"My samurai has so much power....it really does....and I don't have a drinking problem either!"
=P
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You guys.....so silly.
Reading through posts about trying to squeeze more power from such a powerLESS engine is funny.
Like you are all in denial.....It's like an AA meeting!
"My samurai has so much power....it really does....and I don't have a drinking problem either!"
=P
:o :o :o
Can't see anything bad in "squeezing more power". Power is like money, always not enough. What's bad in 100hp 1.3l Sam's engine?
And your little AA problem ??? Why would someone write about it if there is no such concern?
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Lindenmooch is in denial of his A.A. problem as am I.
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ain't nothing wrong with performance tuning with any size engine. its fun.
anyway, how does one measure the exhaust diameter? inner or outer? I'd like to know what i have!
The suzuki samurai FSM does mention backpressure but only as a component in the EGR system, it "needs" it to function correctly.
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ain't nothing wrong with performance tuning with any size engine. its fun.
anyway, how does one measure the exhaust diameter? inner or outer? I'd like to know what i have!
The suzuki samurai FSM does mention backpressure but only as a component in the EGR system, it "needs" it to function correctly.
See, back pressure has it's purpose!
Here is my experience on exhausts:
Way back in 2001, I replaced the stock exhaust system with a EDIT! 2.25", NOT 1.25" exhaust, a Thorley header, a cat converter and some sort of high-flow muffler the muffler shop guy chose. Except for the Thorley, the entire system was installed by the muffler shop for around $200.00.
Right then and there, I KNEW I had done something right! That old 1.3 ran a LOT better!
Oh, and the owner was a Russian immigrant who really knows his stuff and is a DANGED NICE GUY!! I recommend him to everyone who asks about muffler shops in Kansas City.
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one and a quarter inch, ?
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one and a quarter inch, ?
...Oops! fixed post, above. :sleepy:
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I run a 2" exhaust on my SJ-410 with the 1 Liter, did the same on the Metro when I had it with the 1.0L. Both vehicles loved the ability to open up a little bit.
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what's the difference between a calmini and a thorley header, My zuk is a 75% strret and 25% deer lease, mud
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what's the difference between a calmini and a thorley header, My zuk is a 75% strret and 25% deer lease, mud
x2, sorry guys newbie, thinking of which to buy too for my vit.
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i got in the shopping cart, thorley header, 32/36 manual choke weber, k $ n, flow thru cat, cherry bomb, all tied together with 2 1/4" pipe.
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hey perfect topic for my post i just installed a harley exhaust on my sammy 1.3lt with stock header and flex pipe joining the two good idea or bad. I figured the harley motor i pulled it off of was 1300 cc's so i figured it would work. Sounds bad $## though
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Hey guys, I know I'm fairly new here and all and I'm not the type of person to say "your right and your wrong" so please dont take this that way. You all have some valid points on this topic and I would just like to add my 2 cents for what its worth. I've been building mustang drag cars for the past 14 years or so and I know we arent talking drag cars but the subject has many crossover points between the two. There are many variables to take into consideration when choosing the size of your exhaust such as length, diameter, muffler size, etc. and it can be kind of tricky to find the right combo that works for what you want it to work for. Too large of exhaust tubing will not allow for a scavenging effect in a full length system, the exhaust gases just tend to float around which will cause an issue as some of you have said about sucking spent fumes back into the cylinder. Another problem with a system that is piped too large and is by all means a problem only for a long term motor and not one that is torn down and rebuilt regularly and that is valve float which will prematurely wear the valve train. A certain amount of what is commonly referred to as "backpressure" is needed to prevent this. As I said, not a big problem in terms of a race engine. An exhaust system that is too small can have similar effects in terms of "backfilling the cylinder" because the spent fumes arent allow enough room to vacate. Too much pressure will cause hesitation partly due to valves not being able to fully open under the strain and not only wears the stems and springs but plays hell on the seats. Just my opinion on things but felt like the info might benefit the topic. Thanks guys for a great site.
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Some cam shafts will also work better with a specific amount of back pressure,
the back pressure prevents the intake charge from escaping out the exhaust
valve as the cylinder fills, this is due to the overlap in the valve timing of the
cam it's self, What I do know is that a 2" exhaust makes these little engines
wake up and run better, while still getting good economy.
Wild
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Well. Things have changed a bit from my last post in this topic.
I've done some engine upgrades, like swap to 1.6 valves, maximum porting of intake and exhaust channels that was possible to do, sport valve guides, 5 angle seat&valve profile (we, here in Ukraine, call it "special profile"), another stage of carb grinding + finetuning with custom jets. Actually, the intake valves almost the same, just 0.5mm difference in diameter, but exhaust ones are noticably bigger. Finally all works had been done and I couldn't wait to testdrive my Sammi. So I started it... and WOW :o!!! That's the night and day difference in "sound quality" ;), now my engine voice is way better than it was before, but real difference appeared when I've ridden it. Now my motor can use all that piece of exhaust engineering properly.
Some pics:
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more pics:
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and more...
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and finally last pic:
(sorry for so many pictures and for that it is only partially relative to the exhaust systems)
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You guys.....so silly.
Reading through posts about trying to squeeze more power from such a powerLESS engine is funny.
Like you are all in denial.....It's like an AA meeting!
"My samurai has so much power....it really does....and I don't have a drinking problem either!"
=P
Pretty sure I get some nice numbers out of the "little' 1.3. Damn nice motor for a apple to apple upgarde in a sammy!! This dyno sheet is of my 9.5 motor, not even the better 10.2 compression motor. You can see that with a little work these things have some potential.
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Pretty sure I get some nice numbers out of the "little' 1.3. Damn nice motor for a apple to apple upgarde in a sammy!! This dyno sheet is of my 9.5 motor, not even the better 10.2 compression motor. You can see that with a little work these things have some potential.
Is this the mounted on vehicle dyno run, or just engine on the test bench? What is the exhaust configuration after that pacasetter?