ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: kxrider235 on July 20, 2011, 04:14:26 PM
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Hey All,
I am hoping someone has experienced this before and knows the answer. I have a 93 Sidekick 1.6l w/ 16v MPI 4spd AT 4x4. I started having a problem about 3 weeks ago. It would run fine but when I pulled up to a stop sign or red light the rpm's would drop to nothing & almost stall. Now it is fine when I first start it cold. Other than that it wont idle. When I attempt to drive it the only way to keep it running is there is a "sweet spot" in the throttle. If I try to give it more throttle the engine "bogs" down and the rpm's drop. I have replaced the cap, wires, rotor and plugs. I replaced the fuel filter also.
Since I bought this in March the Check Engine light hasn't gone out. It stays on all the time. I never gave it a thought since it ran so well and got 25mph around town and 30 mph on the highway. I have tried the paperclip jumper (I have the 4 wire plug under the hood near the battery) but the check engine light doesn't flash it just stays on no matter how long I sit there with the key on.
Any ideas would be great. Thanks
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XL cut a length of wire to use as a jumper. I used a wire paperclip and it was some sort of junk metal, when I used a wire it worked great. My 93 4 door 4x4 with the auto trans had blown a 60 amp fuse under the hood. When I replaced that it ran and didnt go into safe mode but is still missing on number 3 cyl. So Im looking to replace or rebuild the ECM.
Ed
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Thanks Ed. I didn't think of the conductivity of the paperclip. I have some small solid copper wire and will give that a try tomorrow. I am also going to pull the EGR and see how plugged up it is and test it to make sure its opening and closing.
KX (Jim)
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The paperclip probably isn't the problem. I use them all the time and they work fine (but maybe I am using high quality paperclips :P).
The problem on why the CEL won't flash is probably because the reset switch under the dash needs to be flipped to the other position. The switch is screwed to the backside of the dash, between the steering column and the drivers side radio speaker. If you lay on your back, in the drivers floor board, and shine a light on the backside of the dash, you can sometimes see it. Otherwise, you just have to use your hand and feel for it. It is about 1" by 1/2" rectangle overall and the actual switch is maybe 1/8" by 1/4". It is a 2 way switch, so just flip it to the opposite position it is now...DON'T flip it and then flip it back.
Get the switch flipped and see if the CEL goes out. If it doesn't, then you can check for codes and get them fixed, before worrying about anything else.
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Thanks Sky. I found the switch and flipped it and the CEL went out. I installed the paperclip and got code 14 (1 flash pause 4 flashes). Checked a couple online forums and they both said code 14 was ECT fault V too high (14 ECT Sensor Circuit Engine Coolant temperature sensor, too high V(oltage)). Does this sound right to anyone???? Not that i doubt the fabulous OBD1 computers but would the ECT sensor cause these problems???
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Yes, mixture info is important, and a bad coolant sensor in this case
sounds like the engine is running rich and stays that way
Wild
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Very true Wild. Cold motors do use a richer mix until they warm up and thats when the problems start.
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Can you smell if the exhaust is also rich? that would be a quick
confirmation of the OBD complaint as well
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The low idle/stalling at stop lights and a miss that won't go away are symptoms of clogged/restricted EGR passages. Not saying that is the problem for sure, but it is a possibility. The fix is to clean the complete EGR system.
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Replaced the Coolant Temp Sensor. Now getting code 34 Mass Airflow Sensor.
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Add code 44 to that list also (TPS). Fortunately for me I happen to know a junk yard that has a Zuke way down in back. Hopefully I can pirate the sensors fairly reasonably. Honestly I don't know if they know its there LOL.
EGR is getting ripped out tomorrow and cleaned and tested.
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Replaced the Coolant Temp Sensor. Now getting code 34 Mass Airflow Sensor.
Is it plugged in good? I'd test the wiring, before I'd just replace it.
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Add code 44 to that list also (TPS). Fortunately for me I happen to know a junk yard that has a Zuke way down in back. Hopefully I can pirate the sensors fairly reasonably. Honestly I don't know if they know its there LOL.
EGR is getting ripped out tomorrow and cleaned and tested.
Have you adjusted the TPS? I'd do that and check the wiring, before I'd replace it.
To clean the EGR system entails more than just pulling the EGR valve off and cleaning it. You need to clean the passages in the head and intake as well. There is a passage that runs from the exhaust manifold, through the back of the head, to the EGR valve. There is another passage that runs from the EGR valve into the intake.
A stiff wire and lots of brake cleaner and compressed air works pretty good for cleaning the passages. An old broken cable (like a speedo cable) works pretty good too (probably better than the wire), if you have an old one around.
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Is there easily obtained documents online for voltages and such. I can't seem to find any schematics or much else for info other than here.
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kick-fix.com has decent info.
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Okay. I just put the multimeter on the TPS.
Digital Multimeter set on 20k ohm range. When turned on there is a 1 displayed to the far left.
The pin 1 to 3 jump was 1.00 |removethispart|@ closed throttle and 4.01 |removethispart|@ wide open. Meets specs of .3-2k |removethispart|@ closed & 2-6.5k |removethispart|@ full W/ a difference of more than 2k between them. I would say this checks out good.
The Pin 1 to 2 jump is where I think the problem is. I DID NOT put any feeler gauges in. With a gap of .020 I should have had 0-500 ohms & with a gap of .031 it should have gone to infinity. I didn't even get a reading. The multimeter display was just like it is right now sitting on my desk. I realize that without the feelers I wouldn't get the "right" reading but I should have at least gotten a reading.
Is it a safe bet to say TPS is bad? I personally would have to say yes BUT I don't have alot of experience testing Suzuki sensors much less testing sensors at all. I usually throw the OBD2 on and let it work it's magic LOL.
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You need to put the feeler gauges in and check it the right way. Otherwise, who knows what kind of readings you'll get.
If the readings are off when using feeler gauges, then adjust the TPS (using the feeler gauges), then recheck it.
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Using feeler gauges .020 & .032 I didn't even get a reading. The multimeter display was just like it is right now sitting on my desk. I did check pin 1 & 2 on the plug side and got a reading from the multimeter.
Is it a safe bet to say TPS is bad?
Thanks to all that have offered advice and help with this issue.
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So did you adjust the TPS and recheck it?
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TPS adjusted and rechecked. Now they are all within spec's. Now cold idle is 800-1000 rpms, Won't idle when it starts to warm up.
I am still thinking TPS issue or EGR issue. Any suggestions??
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Is there an idle control solenoid on the throttle body?
might look at that and see if it's moving or stuck, also
make sure there are no air leaks between the filter and
the throttle body, can make for funny running
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TPS adjusted and rechecked. Now they are all within spec's. Now cold idle is 800-1000 rpms, Won't idle when it starts to warm up.
I am still thinking TPS issue or EGR issue. Any suggestions??
If the TPS is within spec, why would you think it is bad?
Is the CEL still on? If so, what codes is it showing?
Did you check the other sensors, using the info on the kick-fix website? Especially the ones that you had codes against.
Have you checked the IAC valve? It is a simple resistance check, to check it.
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Problem seems to be solved. I just changed the timing belt. On a "wild hair" moment and thinking that well I am having problems so while its sitting here I should change the timing belt since I don't know when or even if it has been changed. After all the timing belt kit was only $35. Then I could also check the crank/cam timing.
New timing belt in place motor is running much much better. Only "issue" now is that the hot idle is a little lower than spec's. The hot idle is about 550 rpm's vs. 750. Thinking I might have to reset the TPS and double check my previous work. CEL is flashing 12 constantly now.
I would like to thank you folks for all your help. Your ideas and insight helped me work through this problem.
On a side note I also know where there is a sidekick sitting in a junkyard I don't have to abuse anymore so if anyone needs a part let me know and I can check it out for you. Just shoot me an email, I am pretty sure it's in my profile.
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If everything checks out, you may have to adjust the air bleed screw to bump up the idle. The screw is located on the top of the intake, towards the back. It is supposed to be covered by a black rubber plug, but sometimes it is missing. Turn it about half a turn clockwise (I think that is the right way), wait 15-30 seconds and see if the idle comes up and stabilizes. Keep adjusting it until you can get the hot idle to stabilize at 800RPM with all the accessories off (lights, heater blower, radio, ac, etc.).
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I had the same problem with my 93 and I found a guy on ebay that rebuilt my computor for $50. Problem fixed.
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Here we are again. Back to the same old problems. Only computer code is 12.
It was fine after I did the timing belt for about 1 1/2 hours. On the way home from the ride it started "acting a little funny" (bogged a little in the hills but then it is a 4-banger then the closer I got to home it was fully back into the problem). There were a couple occasions where it seemed to come out of it and run perfect.
When you step on the throttle is sounds fuel starved. Just to start covering different bases from before I pulled to O2 sensor and tried running it like this (to see if the catalytic is plugged) to see if it made a difference. It didn't, so I never-seized the O2 threads and reinstalled it.
Tomorrow I am thinking I need to check the fuel pressure at the rail. I might also break the can of starting fluid out and start spraying around the intake.
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I have had the same problem with my fuel injected samurai. When initially start, it run fine but start to have fuel starve after 10min of so. I switch of the engine and restart, it run fine for a while before it bog down again. Finally trace it to rust in the fuel tank. The rust will fall off once the engine not run. If start it then every thing is normal but when it accumulate enough rust, it will starve the engine.
Hope this help.
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I have been thinking about a tank issue also. I have been dreading that idea. Things are kind of "tender" back in that area when it comes to lines since they are factory Suzuki & I just happen to have nearly a full tank of gas. The only reason I haven't dropped the tank already is that fuel pressure |removethispart|@ the filter was fine BUT that doesn't rule out an intermitent problem with either the fuel pump itself, a short in the electrical going to the fuel pump or something blocking the fuel pump intake. I have also considered the possibility of someone "spiking" my fuel with something. Is there anyway the "average Joe" can test their fuel at home for crap like sugar, etc?
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Here we are again. Back to the same old problems. Only computer code is 12.
It was fine after I did the timing belt for about 1 1/2 hours. On the way home from the ride it started "acting a little funny" (bogged a little in the hills but then it is a 4-banger then the closer I got to home it was fully back into the problem). There were a couple occasions where it seemed to come out of it and run perfect.
When you step on the throttle is sounds fuel starved. Just to start covering different bases from before I pulled to O2 sensor and tried running it like this (to see if the catalytic is plugged) to see if it made a difference. It didn't, so I never-seized the O2 threads and reinstalled it.
Tomorrow I am thinking I need to check the fuel pressure at the rail. I might also break the can of starting fluid out and start spraying around the intake.
ill bet money you have a worn keyway on your crank timing gear....
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Have you ever cleaned the EGR system as Skyhiranger suggested in post #12, including the SS tube and intake opening as well as the exhaust manifold passageway?
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Was just thinking on this issue (smell the smoke), would an air leak around the EGR cause this issue. The gasket I got from the parts store looked like it was about 600 years old and covered with dust.
I did check the EGR and passageways. They seemed to be clear. I ran a flexible nylon handle (stovepipe flex rod) into the EGR passages. EGR valve had some carbon in it but it wasn't a large volume.
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heed locjaw's suggestion, it sounds like the dreaded keyway problem.
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Fuel Pressure |removethispart|@ the rail is 30 psi |removethispart|@ idle. Low side of spec's but still within spec's. Guess I have no choice but to pull the front apart again and detail check the keyway. I looked at it before and it seemed okay. This time it gets checked better.
IF keyway checks out good could an EGR air leak cause this problem?
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IF keyway checks out good could an EGR air leak cause this problem?
Probably not. If you are worried about it, pull the EGR valve off and put a thin layer of silicone/RTV/gasket maker (whatever) on it (either with or without the gasket) and put it back on.
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Could be a weak or partially clogged fuel pump causing the issue. Or maybe a partially clogged fuel filter. Have you changed the fuel filter recently?
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When you replaced the timing belt, did you remove the big center bolt in the crank pulley? It doesn't have to be removed, to do the timing belt, BTW. If you did, did you torque it back to 95ft. lbs?
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When I initially had the problem I changed the filter. Problem solved for about an hour. So I figured maybe there was alot of crap in the tank so I changed the filter again ($OUCH$) but still had the same problem.
If I unhook the Fuel Pressure Regulator from the vacuum the pressure shoots up to about 42 psi but the engine runs the same. I am thinking maybe I need to noid light all the injectors for one(this thing did sit for about 4 years but ran great for 4k miles until now) and replace the O2 sensor.
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Is the keyway behind the bolt or on the gear? I am flustered to the point of nearly permanent blonde moments right now LOL.
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(this thing did sit for about 4 years but ran great for 4k miles until now)
I'd say there is a good chance there is crap in the tank and/or the fuel pump is starting to go bad.
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Is the keyway behind the bolt or on the gear? I am flustered to the point of nearly permanent blonde moments right now LOL.
Kinda both. You have to remove the bolt to get the gear off, so you can check the key/keyway.
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If there is a bunch of crap in the tank, the "sock" that the
pump draws fuel might be plugged, but your pressure should
remain the same, I thought 43 was the standard fuel pressure
on the MPI systems, 30 is a bit low, what does the book say it
is supposed to be?
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If there is a bunch of crap in the tank, the "sock" that the
pump draws fuel might be plugged, but your pressure should
remain the same, I thought 43 was the standard fuel pressure
on the MPI systems, 30 is a bit low, what does the book say it
is supposed to be?
The pressure won't remain the same, if the pump sock is clogged/restricted and it isn't getting enough fuel flow to keep the pressure up.
I had an EFI samurai that had a restricted sock. It would run great for a few minutes, but then it would start sputtering and would run like crap, as the fuel flow/pressure decreased. Eventually it would die. But I could turn the key on and off a few times, to get the pressure and flow built back up and it would run fine again for a few minutes.
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I am checking the keyway tomorrow. I had a blonde moment and thought the line-up tooth was the keyway.
As far as fuel pressure goes it holds 30 psi |removethispart|@ idle. FSM says 30-39 |removethispart|@ idle. On the low side but still within spec. I was expecting to see a pressure drop when it started running rough but the pressure held |removethispart|@ 30.
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If there is a bunch of crap in the tank, the "sock" that the
pump draws fuel might be plugged, but your pressure should
remain the same, I thought 43 was the standard fuel pressure
on the MPI systems, 30 is a bit low, what does the book say it
is supposed to be?
The pressure won't remain the same, if the pump sock is clogged/restricted and it isn't getting enough fuel flow to keep the pressure up.
I had an EFI samurai that had a restricted sock. It would run great for a few minutes, but then it would start sputtering and would run like crap, as the fuel flow/pressure decreased. Eventually it would die. But I could turn the key on and off a few times, to get the pressure and flow built back up and it would run fine again for a few minutes.
Ya, that's what I meant, the restriction would be causing the rough running, if the pressure remains the same
the sock isn't plugged, kind of a check before dropping the tank is where I was going with this
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Yeah the fuel pressure stayed pretty consistent, maybe a pound or two difference the entire time. I agree with you on the fact that a pressure test is far better than dropping the tank just to take a look.
Timing belt is in plain view. I was looking at the keyway you could see for the timing gear NOT the keyway INSIDE the timing gear. What freakin genius thought up that design?!?!?!? BUT on a side note when I checked the crank/cam timing they were still set where they were supposed to be. I find it hard to believe that if the keyway was bad that everytime I shut the motor off everything jumps back into position. Call me lazy but I don't really want to un-torque that bolt just to take a look if I don't have too. Or is it a better safe than sorry deal |removethispart||removethispart|@ this point?
Guess I should also let you folks know how I know #4 is TDC. Plug #4 is out and a nylon rod is inserted into the #4 plug hole. TDC IS verified along with the crank/cam timing.
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If you are on firing cylinder #4 now the cam and crank marks should both
point up, otherwise firing #1 crank up and cam down.
This problem is quite perplexing, and is leaving me wondering what is
happening to cause this issue.
My first thought is the timing is changing while you are driving, but I
don't know what could cause this, does this engine have the crank sensor?
what about the pickup in the distributor? have you tried a new distributor?
might be worth a shot if you can borrow a used known good one
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Maybe I accidentally tripped over the problem tonight. I unhooked the O2 sensor and nothing changed. I would think unhooking the O2 would cause it to run either rich or lean. At a minimum cause it to run like crap, just like it is now.
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Maybe I accidentally tripped over the problem tonight. I unhooked the O2 sensor and nothing changed. I would think unhooking the O2 would cause it to run either rich or lean. At a minimum cause it to run like crap, just like it is now.
You generally can't tell any difference with the O2 sensor unhooked (on a good running engine). The ECM will default to a rich mapping, so it doesn't melt down the engine.
Not sure how unhooking the O2 will affect a crappy running engine. I suppose it might make it run better, if the O2 sensor is bad.
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It can be due to ignition coil. I have seen bad coil that work fine when cold but start to miss fire when hot. You can swap in one from your other car and test it out.
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I have also thought about the ignition control module also.
I just wish I didn't have to act like the government and just throw money at this thing.
While trying to figure this out last night I started inspecting the plugs. They have less than 500 miles on them and they are pretty black. The exhaust was blowing pretty dark also (no oil smell, only consumed 1/3 quart in 3k miles). Which is why I was thinking O2. But that could also mean weak fire at the plugs.
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If you do some testing, to figure out where the problem is, you don't have to "throw money" at it.
We have given you advice on things to check, we have given you links on how to test various things, we have given you advice on what to do. The only thing we haven't done is come down and find the problem for you.
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I have followed everyone's advice (I thank you all for the help). The throwing money thing was more a stab at humor. I have tried testing the coil (got lit up like a christmas tree, but wasn't as bad as Taser training). I have read about testing the O2, but I have no idea how old the O2 is.
I was kinda thinking IF the O2 is sending out lean signals that would cause the same signs as default correct. The plugs are showing signs of either rich fuel/air or poor spark. I would say rich fuel/air would be an O2. Poor spark on the other hand could be coil, ignition module or distributor itself. I am still reading about testing those (except for that coil thing LOL).
Frustration with this vehicle is starting to creep in so it's time to take a deep breath. That's kind of why I am going way back to basics.
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Still trying to figure this little bird out. It will idle but it's very rough and blowing black smoke. You can smell the raw fuel.
Hit the junk yard for parts today hoping they were still good. Got a coil and distributor.
Starting with the basics and working forward now.
1. Replaced the O2 runs the same.
2. What the hey see if the J/Y coil is any good. Coil is good but "Thing" still runs the same.
3. took distributor apart. Lots of rust in there. Cleaned the 4 tabbed metal piece (covered in rust) that works with the Cam Angle Sensor and applied a light coat of dialetric grease. No change
4. Changed cam angle sensor. no change
5. changed rotor button. no change
Now this is the kicker. When I can get this thing to idle my timing light doesn't work. Will 7mm noise supression wires do that? The light works fine on other vehicles.
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Now this is the kicker. When I can get this thing to idle my timing light doesn't work. Will 7mm noise supression wires do that? The light works fine on other vehicles.
No.
Does the timing light flash, if you hook it up to any of the other plug wires? Maybe you have a plug wire that is bad. Or maybe the distributor, or cap is bad. I don't remember, have you replaced any of those.....plug wires, distributor, cap? I guess you did say you replaced the cam angle sensor in the distributor. Did you just replace the innards of the distributor, or swap out the whole distributor?
Did you get the little ignitor on the coil bracket, when you picked up the new coil? If so, did you swap it out?
What spark plugs are you running?
You also mentioned something in a previous post about putting a noid light on the injectors. Did you ever do that? Maybe an injector(s) is stuck open. That would definitely cause excessive gas smell, rich running and black plug(s).
Are all 4 plugs black because of too much fuel?
It could also be the ECM starting to fail. The 92-93 16V ECMs are very prone to going bad.
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The timing light doesn't work with any of the wires. That's why I tried the wife's vehicle to make sure it worked. I know I sure don't understand what the problem is there unless the spark is so weak the timing light cant pick it up. When I pulled the coil wire with the engine running there sure looked like enough juice flowing there.
I initially replaced cap, rotor, wires and plugs. Just swapped out the distributor innards, maybe I should have swapped out the whole distributor.
I got the whole coil bracket. Coil and Igniter. Swapped both out.
spark plugs are bosch platinum 2's
Didn't get to the noid light today. Thunderstorms kept me pinned under cover most of the day.
Yes all 4 plugs are black.
I have to get on that noid light tomorrow and check those injectors so I can really focus on either fuel, fire or brain dead as the problem. Honestly I am beginning to think that the brain dead option is looking the most realistic. Especially after everything that I have cleaned, tested or replaced and the results aren't changing.
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I am starting to think the ECM may be the problem as well. Since it controls spark and fuel and it sounds like at least one is your problem.
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Just checked Ebay and there are ads on there to rebuild the ECU for $75. Anyone dealt with these folks before? I checked the feedback and it was good. Just wondering if anyone has tried these services before and what the results were.
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Here's some ECM info.
http://www.kick-fix.com/ECU/ECU.html (http://www.kick-fix.com/ECU/ECU.html)
I know this is basic maintenance, but have you cleaned and checked all ground connections? Also, regarding the EGR system, with the valve off, does compressed air easily flow thru both the intake and exhaust passageways and not backfeed? You may have to rig up a right angle blowgun fitting to check.
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Well according to KickFix if you have RubyCon capacitor you are screwed. Guess what I have for capacitors in my Zuke's ECU??? You guessed it RubyCon. Guess it's ECU repair time.
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Consider yourself lucky that it ran at all if those Caps are the problem.
Many guys go to the trucklet after stopping at the store and it won't
even start or run
Caps are not hard to change, if you can solder, you could fix it yourself
and save about $74
Wild
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Went to the good ole junkyard and pulled the ECU. Installed in "The Thing" (we can't think of a good name for it LOL). It runs now (at least it idles and no black smoke).
Now for the $64 Million dollar question--- The brain I pulled |removethispart|@ the J/Y is for a standard. I am not sure how proprietary OBD1 Suzuki's are. My old Chevy is OBD1 and I have changed the tranny in that from auto to standard without computer issues. If I run this standard ECU in an auto what issues/damage could I cause or run into if any????
KickFix showed the most common capacitor failure as 103. Is that the one that will cause all these problems. Any info on where I can get that capacitor or could I hit about any Radio Shack?
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Well according to KickFix if you have RubyCon capacitor you are screwed. Guess what I have for capacitors in my Zuke's ECU??? You guessed it RubyCon. Guess it's ECU repair time.
Yeah, the ECM will have rubycon caps, unless they have been replaced.
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Went to the good ole junkyard and pulled the ECU. Installed in "The Thing" (we can't think of a good name for it LOL). It runs now (at least it idles and no black smoke).
Now for the $64 Million dollar question--- The brain I pulled |removethispart||removethispart|@ the J/Y is for a standard. I am not sure how proprietary OBD1 Suzuki's are. My old Chevy is OBD1 and I have changed the tranny in that from auto to standard without computer issues. If I run this standard ECU in an auto what issues/damage could I cause or run into if any????
KickFix showed the most common capacitor failure as 103. Is that the one that will cause all these problems. Any info on where I can get that capacitor or could I hit about any Radio Shack?
Yours is an auto, I take it? If so, it won't shift right, with a 5 speed ECM. It is driveable, but it will shift/drive really crappy.
There are 4 caps to replace in the ECM. Replace them all.
Radio Shack won't have them all (and if they do, they will be expensive). I've gotten mine from local electronic supply houses. The caps are around $1 each. You can use caps that are rated for higher voltage (for example, if the old cap was a 25V, you can use a 50V in its place), if you can't find any of the exact voltage (don't use one of a lower rated voltage). But you must use ones that have the exact microfarad rating (if the old one was a 10uf, you must replace it with a 10uf). You also want to try to get ones that have a 105*C heat rating, but you can use the lower heat rated ones (85*C), if you have to. You also want to make sure you put the caps in correctly....they are like a battery and have a "positive" and "negative". Just look at the old cap and you will see a bunch of - minus symbols above one leg on the side of the cap. The new cap will also have the minus symbols above 1 leg (and also the negative leg is shorter than the positive one, on new caps...but always look for the minus symbol, just to make sure). Only use rosin core solder...do not use acid core.
Once you get all the caps replaced, you also need to do continuity tests for some of the various copper traces located around the capacitors. Usually, the caps will leak and damage a trace (or several), creating an "open". So even though you replace the caps, that does not fix the problem. Look at all the traces around the caps with a magnifying glass. If you see any that are dark colored, or places where you can see that the caps leaked and dried out the coating on the board, you need to clean the corrosion/electrolyte off the board with nail polish remover. I just use a Qtip and gently rub the area until I get the crap off (usually takes several Qtips, to get all the crap/corrosion off the board/trace). I then set my digital multimeter on continuity and find "point A" and "point B" of the trace (usually 1 point is the leg of a capacitor, IC chip (the things with multiple legs), etc.) and see if there is continuity between the 2 points. The only thing that can be between "point A" and "point B" is the copper trace...if the trace passes through any electrical components, you likely won't have continuity, even if the trace is good. There can be electrical components that "T" into the trace, that won't affect the continuity. It also helps to have sharp pointy probes, because you will have to poke through the protective coating to get down to the copper/solder, in order to get an accurate test for continuity (unless you are testing from a leg of an electrical component...then you just need to touch the leg...since there is no coating on the legs, just on the traces and some of the small surface mount components. If you find an open in a trace, you can try to solder the trace back together, but that usually doesn't work well...unless you are really good at soldering. What I do, is simply solder an insulated jumper wire between "point A" and "point B" of the trace (I use small solid wire (about 22 gauge) that has a protective covering on it, that bypasses the bad part of the trace and completes the circuit path. Once you either have the corrosion cleaned up and the trace resoldered, or the jumper wire in place, you need to coat the bare traces/solder joints of the board, to prevent them from corroding. I use clear nail polish to coat these areas.
It really isn't as hard as I make it sound. ;D
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Nice writeup Skyhigh, 1 TP for you :)
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You need to ensure that the replacement caps have an adequate ripple current rating, if the ripple current rating is too low then the caps will overheat.
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Just got home from a "Thing" test drive. SKy you are spot on with the crappy shifting. 1st to OD kinda lugs the little 4-banger so I have taken up manual upshifting. Seems to work pretty good if I shift |removethispart|@ 2500 rpm's.
Radio Shack will carry NONE of the caps. I called and the guy told me they dont carry any caps that require that kind of voltage.
I ordered the caps from Mouser. KickFix supplied part#'s and even showed where they go on the board. Total price on parts -- $1.14, shipping was $5 LOL.
What type of soldering iron should I get. I have a soldering gun but all of the tips are WAY too big for this kind of work. Should I be using high or low temp solder?
Thanks Folks.
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Just a little pencil tip one from Wally World should do, I have used Silver Bearing
solder with good results, built the MegaSquirt with it, but as for temp, I would go
lower to reduce the heat on the components
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I knew it "skip shifted", I just couldn't remember what the skip was to.
I think when I initially checked, RS carried like one of the caps and it was a few bucks.
A gun with a smaller tip the better, but sometimes you gotta use what you have. The one I use has a pretty good sized tip, but it is pointy, so it isn't too bad.
I don't know what kind of voltage/heat my gun is. It's just a "generic" gun they gave us when I went through an electronics program. It is a grounded type gun (has the ground prong on the plug).
The solder I use is....I guess I'm not going to tell you the heat range on it. All it says is "44" rosin core on it.
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kx, I used a Harbor freight cheapo soldering iron, nice sharp tip, worked well. Don't forget to "tin" the tip. There are YouTube videos on tinning. The capacitors come out okay but I had problems cleaning the holes. I ended up using a pin vise and a tiny bit. Good luck
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A de-soldering tool or a blast of air when the solder is hot work OK,
or you can heat the hole plugged with solder and quickly blow the
hot blob out with your breath, for a few components it's fine but
for a bunch you might get tired of that way
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I have been away for a bit, duty calls. I have 2 of the caps kick-fix said I would need. The other two caps you were refering to sky are they C105/107? If so I see that Kick-Fix calls them a 33uf tant 25v. Is the "tant" part important or will any 33uf 25v cap work?
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All the caps you need to replace are electrolytic capacitors (they are cylinder shaped caps). I think the tant (tantalum) caps he is talking about are the ones that look like little "chicklets", or round "blobs". I have never had to replace any caps other than the cylinder shaped electrolytic ones.
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I replaced both of the cylinder shaped caps with the appropriate uf/v caps. Doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
Checked the traces around the caps as far as I could and those showed as good.
any ideas?
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Hey Guys,
Still working on getting a working ECU in the "Thing". Having a hard time finding the right ECU. The 58B40 is for the automatic. 58B30 is for the standard. What is the MAJOR production difference in the two boards? Is one missing a "cap" the other has? Or is it in the programming of the chip itself? Just curious.
Thanks
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Hey Guys,
Still working on getting a working ECU in the "Thing". Having a hard time finding the right ECU. The 58B40 is for the automatic. 58B30 is for the standard. What is the MAJOR production difference in the two boards? Is one missing a "cap" the other has? Or is it in the programming of the chip itself? Just curious.
Thanks
The 58B40 for the automatic plays a role in shifting the transmission. There is slightly different circuitry on the board and I suspect there is slightly different programming on the chips within the ECM.
An auto ECM will work in a manual, but a manual ECM will not work in an auto.
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This is a great thread, you all deserve points!
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I got a rebuilt ECU from NAPA but it only lasted about ten minutes of running good then all hell broke loose and it ran twice as bad, way to much fuel catalytic glowing backfiring etc.. Exchanged it and the second one has been working great for a couple of years. The (new) rebuilt one failing right out of the box sent me down the wrong road for a couple of days of checking sensors and what not so keep that in mind if anyone runs into similar problems.