ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: P Funk on August 21, 2011, 11:40:14 AM
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So long story short - 3 day bachellor party + beer + Mud pit + hill climb = blown head gasket and a tow dolly. I have decided to pull the motor and do a full rebuild. I have a million questions and hope i can get some help and opinions. First things first - 1995 Sidekick 1.6 16v 4dr 5-speed. I'm pretty sure at some point a previous owner had a used motor from a different vehical installed and the work was done fast and cheep. How do I determine what year the block and head were manufacured? I'm guessing there is a casting number of some sort and i can't hunt down this information. Has anybody used the rebuild kits from Low Range Offroad or Rocky Road Outfitters? I want to do this right the first time and not have to worry about anything but the timing belt for the next 100,000 miles. Last 2 questions... Is there anything I should know about before i start pulling the motor apart (tips,tricks, oddball fasteners)? Last but not least, Can anybody recomend a machine shop in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area? I don't know where to start...
Thanks
Jon
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I don't think that you can tell the year of the head, you should be able to determine the year of the engine from the engine number which is stamped on the block near the gearbox behind the exhaust manifold.
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Of your two choices I would go with Lowrange for parts, also consider Lee built.
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Hello,I sell internal engine parts.Did a little research,and all the internals are the same 94 to 99 1.6l 16vlv motors.
Hope this helps.
Randy
1-800-741-4496
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So update number 1...
I just got the tranny/t-case dropped after work this evening, and my goal is to have the motor ready to pull by Wednesday. I only see 1 attachment point coming off the front of the intake manifold... Is this correct and if so, what is the proper way to chain the motor to lift it out? Also... thank you for the acks faqs link. It's been super helpful so far.
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I'm sure mine has one on the back of the exhaust manifold but its dark and wet outside at the moment.
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I'm sure mine has one on the back of the exhaust manifold but its dark and wet outside at the moment.
You are correct, there should be on there to use. There is on my 16v anyway.
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So I finnaly got the chance to look at it and i can see where the exauhst lift point was and is no longer there. There are 2 empty bolt holes on the top of the manifold... I think it was broken or discarded by the hack that swapped the motor. Any suggestions as to how to get it out? The exahust manifold has a big crack in it so I plan on replacing it... would it be a bad idea to just use the manifold as a lift point?
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Check to see if there are any broken studs in there or if he just left the bolts out. I would try to use the corner as it gives you a balanced point to lift the engine from.
That being said I don't see the harm in looping around the manifold. The engine isn't all that heavy.
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I never used a lift, I just pull the head and then the engine
is light enough that you can lift it out by hand, not super
easy, but doable, especially with a friends help
Wild
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So the motor is coming out tonight :) My next question is a money question. I've never re-built a motor before and I'm wondering how much the machine work on the block/head/bearing journals SHOULD cost me? I don't want to walk into a shop and sound stupid or get sticker shock. Just a ballpark figure... 200ish? ...500ish? ... 1000ish? Obviously it depends on how much work is needed but I don't want to get ripped off and i want to know if something is too good to be true.
Thanks
Jon
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Unless you need major work, it should be a 200 ish range
What did you plan on doing? bore the cylinders or just hone
what about the crank, did you run it out of oil or just doing
a rebuild?
You could use the same pistons and new rings and bearings
as well as a valve job and a gasket set, don't forget to replace
the oil pump
Wild
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I didn't run it out of oil, but It did lose all of the coolant and it overheated really bad. I towed it home and it started and ran well enough to pull itself onto the tow dolly and up the driveway, so I don't think it needs major work. I was just looking at basic machine work. Cylinder bore +.040, Crack check, make sure everything is straight and round, and maybe some mild head work. Thanks for the guesstimate Wild :)
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Ya, around here I see about $5 a hole to hone $15-25 a hole to bore, and
the head would be about $100-150 to regrind valves and surface and seals
or guides but your mileage may vary. They will check the line bore and the
crank and rods too, if they are within spec, I wouldn't do anything but replace
the rod bolts if you think they need it, I had rods resized for like $15 each
You will save $$$ if you do the take down instead of them doing it, but if
you want to have them do that they probably will, depends on the shop
Wild
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I'm doing all of the tear down and re-assembly myself so I can afford the parts that I want, not just what I need. Any advice on the headwork? I want to try to get a little better performance while I'm at it :) I know I don't want to go too crazy and make it really high strung. Am I better off with porting and polishing with a stock cam, or just an aftermarket cam? I've decided on a Doug Thorley 4-2-1 header and a homemade snorkel with a high flow filter... Does this affect what I should do with regards to the headwork? :-\ Thanks
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Do a cam, I have an 8V and a custom grind Engle Cam, but I
recall the cam really helped the engine come alive, you could
do some port cleanup get rid of the casting imperfections, and
some of the under valve seat issues, there was a significant lip
on the head I have that I thought would really mess with the
performance, so I worked on that, as well as I smoothed out
the chambers to reduce hot spots, I was working this head for
turbo use, you may not want to work the chambers that much
as it will reduce the compression ratio slightly, tho not enough
to really cause any power losses.
Happy Porting
Wild
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Quick update. I have the motor on a stand and all of the accessories and manifolds removed. I've been reading through a FSM to make sure I do this right the first time. I just ordered a OHC valve spring compressor and in the FSM it say's I also need an adapter of some sort. I ordered the tool from a snap on rep that I know and he said it should be good to go out of the box. Who's right? Also, I'm wondering if anybody has any tips as far as making the re-assembly easier. What should I mark? Any opinions on oil vs assembly lube? Anything else I'm missing before I fully commit to the tear down process? Thanks for all of the help :)
Jon
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I like the snot sticky assembly, I know it's going to stay where I
need it until the engine gets started, oil will work, but it will also
drip and run out, leaving less protection on first start up.
In the high school auto shop we used white lithium grease from
a tube, the teacher always called it elephant cum, LOL, he was a riot
to have as a teacher, coolest one ever
Wild
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There are several different assembly lubes along with oil that I use on rebuilt engines. elephant cum on the bearings, coal digger snot on cam lobes and oil for the cylinder walls/rings....
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I would say that type of assembly lubricant you use mainly depends on how long you plan on letting things sit from the first time you start re-assembly to actually firing the engine up for first time. Anywhere from a couple of days to maybe a week a good oil will be fine, if you plan on taking a long time rebuilding or know will take longer to get it re-assembled and running then use the heavier greases mentioned. Most importantly make sure you use a good quality oil. No generic crap, personally I use nothing but Mobil 1.
I have ordered multiple parts and pieces from Lowrange for my current engine re-build(due to a overly hard and failed front main seal) and have not had any bad things happen. I did notice on my 16v that the original rings that I pulled out appeared to be chrome/molly with the new ones being conventional steel. For the money spent I think it will be well worth the trade off. The gaskets and seals are all of good quality that I have used.
If you have never done an overhaul before do yourself a big favor and let the machine shop do the cylinder honing and valve grinding. Also make sure you have a good torque wrench.
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Update of the week. So the motor is all torn down and I'm waiting on my snap-on guy to get the correct valve spring compressor to finish the head. The only part I cant figure out is the coolant tube that comes out the back side of the water pump. It's bolted to the block with a 10 mm bolt and the other end looks like its pressure fit. If I unbolt it I can wiggle it around but it won't slide out the front of the block because of the fittings on the side. If I slide it to the back of the block it just gets tighter to the pressure seal. Does this need to be removed or can I just leave it? Also, from what I can see the cylinders look almost perfect and I can see the original cross hatching in all of the cylinders. The top of 2 cylinders (2 and 3) only have a very slight lip from the rings, cylinders 1 and 4 do not, and no spun bearings. I noticed that there are no bearings in the cam journals and the surface of a few have some wear. How does this get resurfaced without using undersized bearings?
Thanks-
Jon
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On my engine the coolant galley was stuck in place by old crusty coolant, I had to knock it out from the water pump side and then clean it up.
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The cam journals don't use a bearing, so if there just a tiny bit scuffed, leave them. Otherwise you'll be buying a new head. When you put the head back together lube everything good, the cam seal too. When I do a teardown /rebuild on any engine I like to put individual components in labeled ziplock bags. If any part is going to be reused I prefer it to go back in where it came out. ALSO, this is big time important: MAKE DAMN SURE YOUR PUTTING THE HEAD GASKET ON IN THE CORRECT ORENTATION. It will fit upside down, but it blocks an oil galley to the cam, and will destroy the head in just a few seconds if run that way.
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I wouldn't use the white lithium grease on anything.......maybe holding valve spring retainer locks in place.
Napa has the red sticky assembly lube, that would be my first choice! It is the same as Torco MPZ assembly lube
And redline assembly lube.
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Another day another question... I have come across a J20 with 80k on it in an Aerio that was totaled in a rear end collision. I can get the motor, ecu, and wiring harness for about $500 ( I'm still wheelin' and dealin' the price a little). I have read that it's a fairly straight forward swap and it bolt's up to the tranny. What is involved in a j20 swap into a 95 with a 5-speed? If the deal go's through I'll start a fresh thread. Give me an opinion...
Thanks
Jon
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Thank you to craigslist for providing me with what I need. I just found a 1.6 w/ 100k and i'm gonna drop it in while I take my time to rebuild the original. I called around on machine work and got quoted between $800-$1200 with the motor torn apart for them. Holy sticker shock batman! At some point should I just cut my loses and plan on a j-motor swap? Thanks for all the help guys. It's nice to find a forum that's helpful more than sarcastic.
Jon
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The J motor swap is a lot of work and isn't going to be cheap, have you read ther write up on Aftermarket4x4. It is a tempting conversion though and would also solve a lot of gearing issues, the J20 can run nuch higher gearing/bigger tyres.