ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: 96sport on August 26, 2011, 09:55:25 PM
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i am working on some long travel struts for my kick and looking to see if there is any interest from the zukiworld challenge guys, or any one else. they are based on 2 in rebuildable resi shocks and mine will have 12 in stroke, but different lengths could be done as well. i would love to work with someone who has a racer already and do some hard core testing. i am in portland oregon so if there is anyone...
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Who isn't interested in longer travel struts, and you have a couple of teams right in your backyard. We are up in Washington (North of Seattle), and don;t mind experimenting.
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this has been attempted many times. I really hope you can make something cost effective, what are your plans for overcoming the limited travel due to the coil springs and very limited CV travel?
I will be watching your progress.
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i am using t100 cvs in my ride, they can handle 12 in of travel. also a longer a arm/ taller coil. these will be desert race quality.
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sounds promising, especially if the price is reasonable enough to fill the niche between the "blue lift" crap and a trailslayer.a complete package or piece work would be nice also beings there is no good option for aftermarket control arms.(calmini wont sell them alone and zukination's are higher than giraffe balls).
I am assuming the control arm will move the front tire (wheel base) foreward too?
good luck and post pics.
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ya a arms will push frond end forward 1.5 in. when i am up and running i will sell everything seporately or in a package. calmini sucks so i aim to destroy them. lol.
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So, are you developing upper A-arms to eliminate the struts? How much are you going to push the wheel out? Have you done any fitting yet?
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.(calmini wont sell them alone and zukination's are higher than giraffe balls).
That is the main reason I went with the complete lift pkg from Altered Ego/Zukination because of the absurd price of the a-arms by themselves.
I have another Sidekick frame i want to get ready and another alternative would be awesome.
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no upper a arm, keeping to the original design of the end. on mine the track width will be around 5 in wider because of the toyota t 100 axles. i want it to be very tough for the rocks and i am considering building my kick zukiworld challenge legal so i can race it as well. when i get mine done and start on kits i will offer different setups, stock width for stock axles, widened like mine and have both versions available for standard trackicks as well as sports.
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Hello,
I am interested in your long travel shocks. I'm new to Suzukis (6 mos). My wife and I just came to the agreement I need to build something that is right for us. I've bought / traded / sold 3 sidekicks trying to find the right one. If I can put it to words, I want a baja spirited wheeler. I've been pondering how a person could run indepedant suspension front and back. Your T100 axles and shocks might be the ticket. I am in Portland :).
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awesome! i am in gresham. i will be ordering the last pieces i need soon. is your trackick a 2 or 4 door, sport or regular? i will need a non sport to prototype parts off of. interested?
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Great topic, glad someone is stepping up to add to the vendor listing
for our trucks. I have wanted to do this for quite some time now, let
me help your R and D process and some of the issues you are going to
come up against. When you move the front A-arm forward, the strut is
going to be angled the wrong way, slightly, but enough to cause a goofy
steering response, mine does this now from just doing the Hagen Widening
mod.
The real solution is an upper A-arm in addition to the lower A-arm, and eliminate
the strut in favor of a good shock, and incorporate a set of 930 CVs instead of the
T-100 and a sliding plunging CV shaft. I was working with a company to develop
the high angle CV shafts, but have done little to further the work, a set would be
close to $1000 which I think is cost prohibitive in our demographic group.
I'm open to suggestions and criticisms
Wild
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The funky strut angle can be corrected just like the AE4.5" lift that I installed that uses angled strut spacers. It drives and handles far better than stock!
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$1000 axles are far too expensive for the trackick crowd. i got my axles for under $100 ea new. waaaay bigger and stronger than stock. the toyota 4x4 prerunners use them with the total chaos kits and pull 12 in travel.
what kind of funky steering are you having? pushing the bottom of the strut forward gives more caster and that helps straight line stability. i am thinking that if you have a strut spacer and stock struts most likely the problem is the increased inclination of the strut and the KPI. on my kick i will have struts that are much longer than stock and no spacer, in fact the strut will mount higher, almost touching the hood so the KPI will stay very near stock and with the long strut the castor will be very nice.
i want to keep the struts to keep costs down and have fewer parts to fail off road. i have drawn up an upper a arm and nailed down the geometry but i just want to keep it simple, and prove that suzukis design can ikick ass with some help.
for the doubters these struts will have a 2 in shaft, not bending these babies.
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OK, I'm definetly ready for an alternitive.
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How close are you in the development of these struts?
Like Wildgoody I have always thought the VW/930 cv's would be the optimal set up. They can be rebuilt and upgraded easily, buying (& upgrading) just the parts that are broken. A lot of the off road racers use them with 2-3 times the hp we can push.
$1000 a set would be close to top of the line all the way through with chrome moly shafts.
I am eager to see what you can develop.
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Pushing the strut forward reduces the caster, and causes a lack of wheel return,
not really bad, I mean I drove this as a DD for 7 years this way, but the tires
get a little chewed as well, I ran the Swampers all the time.
Wild
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I am interested in them also. Hardcore testing would be easy for me to supply. My race car is 2wd so testing could be done on the struts before you worked out the details of the CV's.
(http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/gallery/1/medium_4285_29_08_11_9_23_45.jpg)
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i love your racer. so noone has done a 4 door yet that i have seen, really thinking about doing mine up instead of the ranger race truck i had planned. i just really enjoy suzukis, and the gas mileage helps
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invincible, what is your front setup now, strut spacer?, lift?, up travel?, i am setting struts up so front up travel will go up to stock bumpstops. this i know can be an issue depending on tire size, but bumps can always be lowered. again these struts will have a full 12 in stroke. where are you located? i would love to check out your race car.
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I'm very interested in offering up a 4 door chassis for proto typing. I'll hang on to my 2 door until the four door is done...
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invincible, what is your front setup now, strut spacer?, lift?, up travel?, i am setting struts up so front up travel will go up to stock bumpstops. this i know can be an issue depending on tire size, but bumps can always be lowered. again these struts will have a full 12 in stroke. where are you located? i would love to check out your race car.
I am running calmini lower arms and coils, no coil spacer, a custom length strut spacer, lowered bumpstops, Bilstein struts, and a 7100/9100 hybrid auxillary shock. It ends up with a lift of about three inches and rides right in the middle of about 6 or 7 inches of wheel travel. I havent measured it exactly but it uses every available millimeter of the strut travel.
I dont have any good pics of the strut spacer.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LSjdTuNOCATFL1q5X3HbzEZfj9alGOXCQmoeBQBPOZzFzM2REvX1BqrAGJpqReuYpwZFODPnX1cqGXJzxgEoDQIlV09fhx5ZWLLbMi_na6bI_HF3y_Y)
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i live in Newberg. You could come check it out sometime.
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i am out in canby all the time so i will hook up with you and check it out sometime. how is the short wheelbase at speed? i had a linked sammy years ago that i loved to rally through the dunes, fun but at times a little sketchy.
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Mine is quite stable. I still have the sway bar on the front. A four door may be better wheel base but would also be more top heavy.
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hey invincible, can i see a pic lf your door bars for your cage. i am planning my cage and i will still use my car on the street.
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(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/sonnydigiosio/Desert%20racer/DSCF3776.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/sonnydigiosio/Desert%20racer/DSCF3777.jpg)
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Longer travel struts are available from Dobinsons in Aus:
http://www.dobinsonsprings.com/docs/catalogues/4x4/pdf/SUZ-53.pdf (http://www.dobinsonsprings.com/docs/catalogues/4x4/pdf/SUZ-53.pdf)
The catalogue doesn't say but I understand that they are around 1 1/2" longer than stock.
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is that legal, i assume so. i was under the impression that the bars had to be up higher to provide side impast protection, anyways thats awesome. thank you for the pics
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Yes, its legal. door bars are a good idea, but not as necessary in desert racing as other forms of motorsports.
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ya i agree, i am totally going to have them, i just want to be able to drive it without looking like bo duke. lol.
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i finally got some of the parts that i have been waiting on. still waiting on one more piece of material but now i can start making headway on these struts. so this is what i am doing, 2 to 2.5 inch wider a arms, new springs, and now going with some 930s instead of the t100 axles as they wont work on a sport because sports have one shaft that is longer than the other. it will pull 12 inches of travel. in the rear hoping to get 16 or so, all new links and such. pics when i get a little work done.
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i finally got some of the parts that i have been waiting on. still waiting on one more piece of material but now i can start making headway on these struts. so this is what i am doing, 2 to 2.5 inch wider a arms, new springs, and now going with some 930s instead of the t100 axles as they wont work on a sport because sports have one shaft that is longer than the other. it will pull 12 inches of travel. in the rear hoping to get 16 or so, all new links and such. pics when i get a little work done.
Unless I'm very much mistaken - ALL the SideKick/Vitara/Grand Vitara models - have one shaft longer than the other.
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i am not sure, mine is over an inch different. this is the only sidekick i have owned. i am going with custom shafts now so its no biggie.
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i picked up the last of the raw materials today, now just waiting for some bushings to arive. definately not the cheapest struts but fully rebuildable so the last ones to ever have to buy and performance will be on a whole new level with basicly twice the travel and a tunable(revalvable) strut.
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Really looking forward to your progress.
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i have to figure out how to post pics, i am a tech moron.
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If they are small enough you can just go to Advanced Options at the bottom of the screen and attach them to the thread. Otherwise just ask some of us for an email and we can post them for you. :)
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ok, thanks ill give it a try
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been waiting over a week for the bushings i need, they came in today and i got the wrong ones. CRAP!
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some pics
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another
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the second pic is the new srtut rod guide bushing compared to the stock sized rod
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sorry i cant figure out how to get more than one pic per post.
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Those will be huge. i cant tell what you are showing us in the last pic.
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It's the top end of a remote reservoir shock - something along these lines.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31HkwrDSGIL._SL500_AA300.jpg)
That's just a random image I pulled from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/MX6-SERIES-SHOCK-REMOTE-RESERVOIR/dp/B001ASIM4W/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1316537881&sr=8-10) - so that you can easier visualize it.
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So the plan is to make a custom top and bottom mount for the strut and just bolt it in there?
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ya custom ends and lower sleeve, the last pic is just a mock up of lower sleeve. basicly same concept as the bilsteins or any other inverted strut.
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It's the top end of a remote reservoir shock - something along these lines.
([url]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31HkwrDSGIL._SL500_AA300.jpg[/url])
That's just a random image I pulled from Amazon ([url]http://www.amazon.com/MX6-SERIES-SHOCK-REMOTE-RESERVOIR/dp/B001ASIM4W/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1316537881&sr=8-10[/url]) - so that you can easier visualize it.
I recognized that. Are you using that little shock as a strut? The other pics looked like you were custom making a strut with a very large shaft..
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starting with a 2 inch res shock. the body will be the "shaft". then building a lower section that is the "body" of the strut. this is how the bilsteins you guys are using are built. i am just going bigger and will have a shock that i can tune and rebuild when needed.
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I loving this idea if it's full bolt on
How much wider will the front end up compared to a gv rear
I would love a tuff ifs that can show up all the big trucks
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yes it going to be totally bolt on. not sure what the gv width is but the track width will be 2.5 in wider per side
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That makes it about 2" wider then a gv rear which shouldn't be to bad
Will ur new strut mount fit under the hood without a body lift and are they going to have a strut brace
What lift u aiming for
I would like to see atleast 4"
How r u setting the camber for the extra 2.5 with
R u just going to set the camber when u make the lower strut mount
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shooting for 4 inches of lift, no body lift. the upper strut mounts will include a brace. as far as camber the struts will have one of the holes slotted for adjustment, once set i will weld a heavy washer in place so nothing moves. i am building my sidekick for hauling ass in the rough so everything will be built very stout.
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Will this kit work on a 2000 2-door tracker?
Can you run a body lift if you want to?
Any ballpark guesstiment on what the price will be for a full kit?
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should be able to run a body lift with no problem. i am sure that there are differences in the 99 and up body style that will require its own kit. once mine is done i want to do the standard trackicks as well as the newer ones.
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Any new progress ? ???
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i have most of the parts needed on hand but still researching the seal i need, loking like i will have to have them custom made. i need to spend some time on the lathe and it will be time to assemble these things.
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Any progress on this yet
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unfortunately no, been crazy busy at work and working tons of overtime so not much time left for my projects.
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I hope you follow thru, I think the idea has been kicked around before....and I have thought about it before. The furthest I got is some paper notes, so I'll share my chicken scratches to add some more thoughts to the pool.
My general idea was to adapt a common shock body to a strut mount like you have somewhat already showed. I thought an airshock would be cool, because then you get rid of the leverage action on the coil, or even maybe a coilover type shock might work. Then ditch the trackers coil. So pretty much take a shock and clamp it with a custom bracket. Some pics/thoughts to clear my long winded explanation.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/heiney5/Ditch%20Witch/Trackick-LongTravelStrut.jpg)
(http://www.trail-gear.com/images/180125-k-alt1.jpg)
I think the crux is keeping overall fab and cost down...... Ultimately a double a-arm type setup is probably the best setup as done by a couple on this board, but that requires a whole lot of fab and will never be a "bolt-on" type mod.
I like your initial thoughts about running taco shafts, used parts are a plus for me because I like going to junkyards. I do agree the the CV930 shafts would work better, but that will require more work/fab to get them adapted to a sidekick cv shaft. Also I think 12" may be a little aggressive, 10" would work too (it's how you use your 10" ;)). I noticed a nice improvement with OME struts and they are only ~1" longer then factory. I think the stroke is still less then 8" if I recall.
Just some thoughts, sorry for the novel. I have acquired some 10" airshocks over the summer and thought about this idea over a year now, with no real progress, who knows if/when I will. If there is a way for me to help further this type idea, let me know.
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Any news on this yet