ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Sidekick, Vitara, Geo Tracker (Gen. 1 Platform) 1989-1998 => Topic started by: rockett77 on August 28, 2011, 04:44:40 PM
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I have a 95 Kick, and the brakes keep on locking up. I believe that it's just the front, haven't had issues with the rear, though I haven't touch the rear brakes other than bleeding. It has ABS, and I noticed that the drivers side front isn't on the ABS system. Is that normal?
What I have replaced so far...
-Master cylinder
-Front lines
-Front hoses
-Calipers
-Rotors
-Pads
Anyone have any ideas?
Oh, the brake pedal feels like the engine is off, where it doesn't release the pressure. ???
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I think the 95 and older trackers only had rear wheel anti lock.
When you say the brakes lock up do you mean the pads are dragging all the time? Especially right after braking and possibly pulling to the side for a while after you let off the brake?
If the brakes are just dragging I had that problem on my track and it was just the pads were too tight in the shims. Fixed that by grinding off a bit of each end of the pads where they slide on the shims. I ground and fit them little by little until they were held secure enough by the shim to prevent clicking/rattling but not so loose that they'd be jiggling around.
My pads, shims, sliders, calipers and rotors were all new so I have no idea why the pads were too tight. Probably just a typical lack of quality control.
The few early trackers I've driven have had somewhat squishy brakes compared to other vehicles so a stiff pedal is odd on these things. Check to make sure your ebrake isn't over tightened or sticking. If that doesn't fix it I would lift the truck off all 4 wheels and spin each one to see which one is bound up and go from there.
Let us know what you find.
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It doesnt have true ABS, but a valve in the rear with a arm that attaches to the rear third link with a spring. When the rear lifts up it directs almost all the braking force to the front wheels. If you add a lift kit it is always engaged and always sends all the braking to the front.
If you have a gizmo in the back like this, go ahead and disconnect the spring.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_1239.jpg)
I would also make sure tha vacuum line from the mani to the Brake booster is not blocked.
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That's the LSPV - load sensitive proportioning valve - it controls the rear brake effort based upon the load in the back of the vehicle, more load, more braking Disconnecting the spring is not the best approach - Suzuki put it there for a reason - if you have lifted the vehicle you may need to extend the arm with the spring to compensate for the lift.
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Sounds like you replaced just about everything in the system. when you replaced your master cylinder did you check the piston rod length to make sure it was correct? If it extends too far into the vacuume booster it would do just what your describing.
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That's the LSPV - load sensitive proportioning valve - it controls the rear brake effort based upon the load in the back of the vehicle, more load, more braking Disconnecting the spring is not the best approach - Suzuki put it there for a reason - if you have lifted the vehicle you may need to extend the arm with the spring to compensate for the lift.
I mentioned removing the spring as a troubleshooting step, I should have been more complete in my reply.
My AE lift has a new third link without provisions for the spring and I have not had any issues whatsoever with braking with disconnecting it.
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My AE lift has a new third link without provisions for the spring and I have not had any issues whatsoever with braking with disconnecting it.
Correction - you have not had any issues YET.
Your rear brakes are making very little contribution to stopping the vehicle - which is not a problem when it's lightly loaded, however, load the vehicle up and you will find the braking distance required to stop from a given speed to be greater than it should, and let's hope for your sake, than when you do in fact need the rear brakes to play their part, that you don't run out of room and end up using the back of the vehicle in front of you as an additional stopping resource.
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I had 400 lbs of food and fuel in the back and a passenger up front, no issues at all with braking, in fact iot was greatly improved! You have the purpose of the load sensor slightly skewed/mis-understood, the system is intended to REDUCE braking forces to the rear with LOWER weight in the back and as the weight is transfered to the front during braking, when you use the brakes the weight is transferred to the FRONT brakes, thusly unloading the rears and this can cause the rears to LOCK up as they are carring alot less weight due to the short wheelbase.
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I had 400 lbs of food and fuel in the back and a passenger up front, no issues at all with braking, in fact iot was greatly improved! You have the purpose of the load sensor slightly skewed/mis-understood, the system is intended to REDUCE braking forces to the rear with LOWER weight in the back and as the weight is transfered to the front during braking, when you use the brakes the weight is transferred to the FRONT brakes, thusly unloading the rears and this can cause the rears to LOCK up as they are carring alot less weight due to the short wheelbase.
What mis-understanding would that be - reduced braking forces to the rear with lower weight (your explanation) is exactly the same it controls the rear braking effort based on the load in the back of the vehicle, more load, more braking (my explanation), you're simply restating it from the opposite point of view.
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Sounds like you replaced just about everything in the system. when you replaced your master cylinder did you check the piston rod length to make sure it was correct? If it extends too far into the vacuume booster it would do just what your describing.
I did not check the length, do you by chance know the length that it should be at and how to adjust it if possible. I think it might have been 1"1/2 2" in, it was a couple months ago.
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I don't know the exact length, but an easy way is to compare it to the old one, measure both and make sure there the same. Had that happen to be when I did a MS swap to the bigger one from a 4 door. Rod in the 4 door one was longer and kept causig the fronts to lock up once they got hot.
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I bought my mc brand new, and the pedal still gets harder and harder every time i touch the brakes.
p.s. Everything I replaced is with brand new parts
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([url]http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/talonxracer/IMG_1239.jpg[/url])
Curiosity question - in this picture which way is up?
At a glance it seems the bleed nipple is at the bottom, which seems a little unusual.
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Yes the bleeder is on the bottom, that picture was taken looking up.
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It sounds like the brake booster is having issues or isn't getting vacuum...
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Yes the bleeder is on the bottom, that picture was taken looking up.
Did it come from the factory like that? It looks like it would make bleeding quite difficult.
I suspect the bleed nipple is intended to bleed air from the front brake circuit (the line closest the bleed nipple) but if thats the original position then I would also want to think the rear brake lines are reversed top/bottom, since the supply line is at the top and the line to the axle at the bottom.
Edited to correct spelling
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It sounds like the brake booster is having issues or isn't getting vacuum...
vacuum is getting to the booster, every time I take the hose off of the booster it kills the motor.
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It sounds like the brake booster is having issues or isn't getting vacuum...
vacuum is getting to the booster, every time I take the hose off of the booster it kills the motor.
That doesn't sound right. I know a vacuume leak will make a motor run crappy, but kill it? I'm gonna have to check that on mine. I still think it's in the master cylinder to vacuume booster fit.
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Yes the bleeder is on the bottom, that picture was taken looking up.
Did it come from the factory like that? It looks like it would make bleeding quite difficult.
I suspect the bleed nipple is intended to bleed air from the front brake circuit (the line closest the bleed nipple) but if thats the original position then I would also want to think the rear brake lines are reversed top/bottom, since the supply line is at the top and the line to the axle at the bottom.
Edited to correct spelling
Yes it came like that from the factory, the bleeder is parallel to the ground and points towards the fuel tank. Those lines had never been removed from the condition/looks of them, the bends are perfect and factory. I will check them out for where what goes in the AM and post the results, I am a bit intrigued myself.
I apoligize to the TS for the slight diversion.